Low Volume Mobile Calls & VOIP

Johnboy1951 · 04-02-2011 2:27pm #1

I have a family member who wants advice on using VOIP for low volume mobile calls ..... maybe €20 per month spent on calls presently.

The hardware is no problem as I have that covered with either an ATA or alternatively there may be a router with phone port available.

Where I am failing is deciding on the provider. From reading this forum is seems obvious that one of the Betamax (?) companies is the way to go - voipgain, smartvoip or such.

Presently the setup is this

3MB/s broadband from Eircom
Eircom all Ireland calls package

I have checked the broadband and it is suitable for VOIP and have tested by using it. There is no other broadband option other than the landline in that area.

So the only question is, which provider is the most suitable.
It is likely that mobile call use will rise slightly in the future.

Is there a package something like the Blueface PAYG package, where an amount is paid in, and it lasts until used regardless of time period?
I seem to have missed that info when reading .

The gains from dropping the Eircom landline call package are minimal it seems ..... only about €6 per month when the broadband/calls package discount is taken into account. So it is the intention to try VOIP for mobile calls only -- at least initially.

It seems very borderline, but going VOIP should help if there is an increase in the mobile call numbers ..... likely, due to kids spreading their wings .....

Thanks for any suggestions.

regards.

Mr. G · 04-02-2011 7:12pm

You need to pay line rental to use eircom DSL Broadband.
The betamax companies are very popular next to blueface. You don't save a lot on mobiles via VoIP, goldfish.ie is not well known but is an registered company in ireland and mobile calls are like start at 10cent a minute with UKandIRE call pack.

It is possible to simply block mobiles directly.

Most providers you can topup and spend as you go.

PaulPinnacle · 04-02-2011 7:29pm

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

The gains from dropping the Eircom landline call package are minimal it seems ..... only about €6 per month when the broadband/calls package discount is taken into account. So it is the intention to try VOIP for mobile calls only -- at least initially.

Does the eircom package come with free national calls?

If so, you might find it a lot simpler to use something like voipgain's local access number for mobile calls. You can register a number (5, iirc) of phone numbers here and then by simply dialing a Dublin number you can then dial on to any international/mobile number using your VG account (payg type account just like blueface, with attractive rates to various mobile/international numbers).

Johnboy1951 · 04-02-2011 8:43pm

OK, I went hunting, and found I had an old account with VoipWise.
I decided to use this for testing here before giving any advice.

It seems that with this provider I can get free landline calls to Ireland for up to 90 days from a top-up and in addition mobile calls to Ireland will be about 10.5c per min.

If this works out as good as it sounds, then the Eircom call package can be dropped, the landline calls can be routed through VoipWise for zero cost, and the calls to mobiles should be less than half the present cost.

That is of course if I am understanding things correctly.

So my intention is to use this setup, starting sometime next week from here, and if successful will transfer it to the new user. Heck if it is good enough I might even use something similar myself.

Yes I realise there are other options for the mobile calls and some of those are even cheaper but I think for the present - to make things simpler for me - I will use VoipWise and if all is OK then consider other options.

Thanks for the other suggestions ..... I had looked at the local access number which I decided against for the moment as I think this other scheme more suitable.

So I will try using this for a little while and prove it working and check actual costs of calls etc.

regards.

Johnboy1951 · 07-02-2011 1:54pm

PaulPinnacle wrote: »

Does the eircom package come with free national calls?

If so, you might find it a lot simpler to use something like voipgain's local access number for mobile calls. You can register a number (5, iirc) of phone numbers here and then by simply dialing a Dublin number you can then dial on to any international/mobile number using your VG account (payg type account just like blueface, with attractive rates to various mobile/international numbers).

Do you use VoipGain?
I would like to hear how the service is etc etc.

While testing with VoipWise I have been comparing - as best I can - the various charges from other companies .... most of them in the Betamax group.

So the criteria has been whittled down to the following .....

Free Irish landline calls for 90 days or longer after top up.
and
The cheapest Irish mobile call rates

That is about it .... except for a reasonable service of course, including sound quality.

Today I have been looking intently at VoipGain.
It gives free landlines for 90 days from top up.
It charges 5c per minute (or part of a minute) for Irish mobile calls.
There is also a 3.9c setup charge on each call.

All of those of course, like other such providers, are subject to VAT and any other 'handling' charge they invent when you top up.
Maybe someone who uses them could comment on that aspect?

At the moment, as I mentioned, I am testing VoipWise, who charge 9c per minute without any setup charge.
So even for the first minute of a mobile call VoipGain is competitive.
For subsequent minutes of any call VoipGain are much cheaper.

I also came across this page which might interest those who are considering hardware for SIP VOIP
http://www.voipgain.com/en/hardware.html

So presently it seems that my advice to my family member will be to use VoipGain ........ unless I find, or someone posts, another provider who has better rates for mobiles, or the same rates and a longer 'free days' period ...... or I hear some very bad reports of VoipGain.

Comments and advice most welcome.

regards.

PaulPinnacle · 07-02-2011 2:21pm

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Do you use VoipGain?
I would like to hear how the service is etc etc.

I won't suggest it's perfect, but it's as good as any other betamax provider (and comparable to any provider) I've ever used. I'd assume that the (very very minor) issues I have had to date have been as much to do with my own hardware/setup as it has been due to the VSP (still getting to grips with a slightly complicated [by my standards] NAT/DHCP/QoS/etc setup and coming to grips with ddWRT).

I've set up a few family members to use the local access number system for calls (users that wouldn't be comfortable having to do anything complicated and simply need a low cost and easy to use solution with no messing about). The quality there has been flawless by all accounts (they'd be comparing directly to PSTN as they'd have no experience of VoIP) and all huge fans of it.

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Maybe someone who uses them could comment on that aspect?

I'm struggling to remember the specific figure, but a €10 top up came in at ~€12.90 with the extras iirc.

VoipGain do charge per minute (rounded up) and not per second, which won't suit some users, and do have the ~4c setup fee for non free calls, which tends to aggravate some users.

My usage tends not to be 'high volume' (relatively speaking) and long conversations (mainly UK mobiles atm), so neither of these are a major problem for me. If you're making high volume (hitting a lot of voicemails) and relatively short calls, there may be far better providers out there (we all tend to just look at what matches our own needs

).

I intend to check out the best provider for a similar call pattern to the one you're looking at in the next few days (mainly Irish landline & mobile, with a handful of UK landline and Singapore mobile thrown in), so keen to see if anyone can come up with alternative suggestions. If not, I'll certainly toss up an update if I come across something more suitable for that type of call pattern (I'd assume one of the VSPs offering 120 free days might end up working out slightly cheaper, depending on the balance of mobile/landline calls).

Johnboy1951 · 07-02-2011 4:23pm

Thanks mate for the follow up.
If you come across anything a bit better I would be delighted to hear of it.

It is difficult at the moment to measure what the usage patter might be - landline/mobile - but it seems to me that €10 credit for mobile calls would be easily consumed. Even if not, then the rate outside of 'free days' for landlines is not huge anyway.

So my thinking at this point is that the cost of the Eircom landline package, if dropped, would go a long way to paying for landline and mobile calls under VoipGain. When the cost of the mobile calls through Eircom is factored in, there should be a gain overall.

If hardware had to be costed it might be a different matter, but as I said, in my case that is not a factor.

The only other calls that might interest them are those to UK or Aus landlines ..... which in this case are also free during the 'free days' period.

In my tests so far, the biggest difference I noticed in call quality was, for the most part, fixed by moving to a better audio codec. Some of the lower quality codecs gave really bad results.

I will wait until my €10 is exhausted on VoipWise before I test VoipGain on my system. It will mean the user waiting a little while but it should be worth it in the long run.

Thanks again for your input.

regards.

Johnboy1951 · 14-02-2011 4:46pm

Don't know if anyone has an interest, but here is an update just in case .....

I had to set a good codec - 64K - to get very good call quality

There is about 1 second or so on each call where an echo is heard ..... the first word spoken it seems.
After that the calls I have made have been as near perfect as I could wish.

Calls to mobiles are ~ 11c per minute or part of a minute (including VAT & charges).

Calls to landlines are free.

I have no means of setting my caller ID ...... it is only available through a MS Windows application - I do not use MS products.
I guess if this was for my own use permanently then I would use someone else's PC and set it up.
Thought I should mention it, as I spent some time trying to find other means to set this ...... I had expected to be able to do so via the browser access to my account.

So, all in all a very good experience.

regards.

EthicRanger · 15-05-2011 3:08am

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Do you use VoipGain?

That is about it .... except for a reasonable service of course, including sound quality.

Today I have been looking intently at VoipGain.
It gives free landlines for 90 days from top up.
It charges 5c per minute (or part of a minute) for Irish mobile calls.
There is also a 3.9c setup charge on each call.

All of those of course, like other such providers, are subject to VAT and any other 'handling' charge they invent when you top up.
Maybe someone who uses them could comment on that aspect?

.....
Comments and advice most welcome.

regards.

1) You can consider, your additional charges rises your call charge by 1/4 (quarter). Example. You top uped 10Eur, paid 10+2.10VAT +0.60 (for top up) = 12.70Eur , so 27% more it's ~ 1/4
(if you'll top up 25Eur, will be closer ~25%

ye? )

2) Here is an interesting tip: change your most used numbers in your phonebook like this: 012827203p0833888468 ( voipGain local irish number for best call quality; p= pause, which you can get in say Nokia pressing * 3times ; target (this time my) number ;

3) Having eircom line, you can consider getting E-mobile plan w eircom discount:
* start from 14Eur/month;
* all has free calls to landlines ;
* you will get a phone w discount, which you can sell to minimise bill pay cost further;
* in case you need more broadband for 1-2months you can buy Unlimited data add-on for 15Eur or 1Gb for 9.99EUr. Just better to have mob. ph, which creates WiFi hotspot

* 39Eur plan has 300min/300texts and 2GB data, which you can use
* 49Eur plan has Unlimited calls and Unlimited texts but no Data. so i see you in to savings and helping, so can make conference calls to your housemate and his prospect so they can speak for longer time. unfortunately, you will be able to hear yourself

Now i have a question:
I wonder maybe somebody knows phone software, which would understood conference call request by sms (say to send 2 numbers and phone will ring to both of them and connect in to conference) . Then it's possible to share such unlimited call plan in a house. i would like to do such project.

EthicRanger · 15-05-2011 3:18am

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Don't know if anyone has an interest, but here is an update just in case .....

I had to set a good codec - 64K - to get very good call quality

There is about 1 second or so on each call where an echo is heard ..... the first word spoken it seems.
After that the calls I have made have been as near perfect as I could wish.

Calls to mobiles are ~ 11c per minute or part of a minute (including VAT & charges).

Calls to landlines are free.

I have no means of setting my caller ID ...... it is only available through a MS Windows application - I do not use MS products.
I guess if this was for my own use permanently then I would use someone else's PC and set it up.

So, all in all a very good experience.

regards.

Looks like you getting good sound quality just through internet? can you explain a little your gadgetory you use,pls?

i heard you use 3Mb/s eircom, ....
I can tell only 25% of calls with VoipGain through (WiFi) internet (my is Vodafone 8Mb/s down 0.5Mb/s up probably 24:1 contention in Bray) would be good. yet through VoipGain Dublin local number always (98%) perfect.
Thanks

Johnboy1951 · 15-05-2011 1:34pm

EthicRanger wrote: »

Looks like you getting good sound quality just through internet? can you explain a little your gadgetory you use,pls? i heard you use 3Mb/s eircom, ....
I can tell only 25% of calls with VoipGain through (WiFi) internet (my is Vodafone 8Mb/s down 0.5Mb/s up probably 24:1 contention in Bray) would be good. yet through VoipGain Dublin local number always (98%) perfect.
Thanks

Eircom 3Mb/s connection .... about 2.5Mb/s down and .38Mb/s up (or something close)

I presently use a desktop phone (old style which was previously connected to the Eircom line) and a router with a built-in ATA (Vigor 2910VG from DrayTek)

I have also connected a Dect phone to the second RJ11 socket in the router, so am not tied to desk to make and receive calls.

I have retained the VoipWise account on my system and have several other free VOIP accounts also such as those from Ekiga, Blueface and Linphone, which are usually used by running a client application on the PC, but I have the accounts registered with the ATA in the Vigor (it can register six different accounts simultaneously).
It also has a phone book facility and speed-dial from there ..... which means I can dial a two digit number to contact a VOIP number on
<user name>@<some VOIP provider>
or any other number I set up (great for long international numbers), and with a simple setting can determine which of the registered accounts to use to dial out from, for each number individually.

For those numbers that are not in the dial plan, I can set up rules which determine, based on the number dialled, which account is to be used to make the call.
For instance numbers beginning with '00x' can be entered individually, and depending on 'x' different accounts can be used. When making a call the rules are checked in order until a suitable one is found, and used.

I have been considering trialling Rynga (another Betamax provider) for my own use, as that has even cheaper mobile calls than VoipWise and more free days for landline calls. I have not done that yet - maybe soon.

As mentioned previously, giving preference to the better codecs has substantially increased call quality. It does use a little more bandwidth but it is well worth the change.

I have not used WIFI for calling so cannot say what effect that might have on things. I imagine it would depend on a lot of factors such as hardware, distance from WIFI router as well as speed & quality of WIFI hardware at both ends.

I think that covers most of the setup

regards.