Finally.. The UK acknowledges the BS that is the A Levels.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2011/feb/04/university-places-traditional-subjects-a-levels

Top universities will today issue guidance which acknowledges officially for the first time that they favour students who study traditional subjects at A-level.

The guide compiled by the Russell Group, a lobbying group for Oxford, Cambridge and 18 other leading universities, confirms rumours that have circulated for years that they favour those subjects over newer ones such as business studies or photography.

It also reveals an overwhelming preference for science and maths subjects – even for seemingly unrelated degrees.

The new handbook, seen by the Guardian, is a sign that universities are having to cave in to ministers and teachers' calls for far more information on how admissions tutors decide who they award places to and why.

By not studying at least two of the following subjects – maths, English, geography, history, any of the three pure sciences or a classical or modern foreign language – "many degrees at competitive universities will not be open to you," the guide, produced in collaboration with the Institute of Career Guidance, states.

It asks students to question why they are not taking traditional subjects: "Are you trying to avoid a challenge?" It states that while there is no "set definition" of a "hard" or "soft" subject, so-called "hard" subjects are like the ones the top universities prefer and are more theoretical. It gives media studies, art and design, photography and business studies as examples of "soft" subjects and states that they are "vocational or have a practical bias".

"If you plan to take more than one perceived 'soft' subject, some caution may be needed," the guidebook warns.

In June, David Willetts, the universities minister, told vice-chancellors he had been "pushing for greater transparency from universities for some time". The advice teenagers received on university courses was "of absolute importance … so that [they] don't miss out on a particular course or a place at a particular university through not receiving the right guidance at the right time," he said. Willetts said the handbook was a "welcome step towards levelling the playing field for prospective students".

Just over 7.2% of pupils in England attend private schools but make up over a quarter of the intake at the 25 most selective universities, and 46.6% at Oxford. It's thought this may in part be because state school students do not receive proper guidance about what it takes to get into an elite university when they are making their A-level choices.

Yesterday Wendy Piatt, director general of the Russell Group admitted that choosing the right subjects at GCSE and A-level was "crucial to whether a teenager maximised or reduced their opportunities and life chances".

"It is really important that students do not disadvantage themselves by choosing a combination of subjects at A-level which will not equip them with the appropriate skills and knowledge for their university course or which may not demonstrate effectively their aptitude for a particular subject," she said.

Careers advisers said the handbook would mean clever pupils at comprehensives could no longer be in a weaker position to their peers in private schools when applying to leading universities, such as Oxbridge.

Some argue that pupils at private schools and grammars are at an advantage because they have teachers who may specialise in building relationships with top universities and decoding universities' complex admission requirements.

The majority of the 61 degree courses in the handbook state that maths and/or science A-levels would be either a requirement to win a place, or "useful".

The guide reminds students that abroad, for example in Asian countries, subjects such as maths, the native language, a science and a foreign language are compulsory up to 17. It implies that these are the students that the UK's teenagers are competing with for places.

Critical thinking and general studies are recommended to be extra subjects, on top of three or more A-levels. Science and maths A-levels are recommended for degrees in archaeology, anthropology and geography among others, and law degrees do not require law A-level. History may be useful instead, the guidebook states. For history degrees, some universities do not require history, but believe English is useful.

Andy Gardner, a career adviser in state schools and a representative of the Institute of Career Guidance, said school students had faced a "torrent of misleading information until now".

I don't know about anyone else on here but I was really pissed off after the leaving at how the A levels were set up.. A course I was thinking of doing in Queens required 550 points from the Irish Leaving Cert but my cousin got into the course with P.E, Religion and Irish as his A Levels. Bit of a difference like.

Fratton Fred

Shouldn't a UK university favour students with UK qualifications though?

What grades did your friend get as well? Three As in those subjects would be pretty good.

How would 3 A's in them subjects be difficult? He's as Irish as it gets... Massive catholic, loves the Irish language and plays sports every day. Traits that I don't think count for much considering what the course was.

And you've missed the entire point of the article or did you even read it? He got into the course with the "soft subjects".. In the future, hopefully it'll be a requirement to do subjects relevant to the course.

And we're in the EU. Favouratism shouldn't come into it.

mathie

Deleted User wrote: »

...my cousin got into the course with P.E, Religion and Irish as his A Levels.

Deleted User wrote: »

Massive catholic, loves the Irish language and plays sports every day.

How would being a massive catholic help you with P.E.?
Unless the P stands for Paed..... ah no I shouldn't.

MagicMarker

Yes, because our leaving cert is oh so much better.

Terrontress

Deleted User wrote: »

How would 3 A's in them subjects be difficult? He's as Irish as it gets... Massive catholic, loves the Irish language and plays sports every day. Traits that I don't think count for much considering what the course was.

And you've missed the entire point of the article or did you even read it? He got into the course with the "soft subjects".. In the future, hopefully it'll be a requirement to do subjects relevant to the course.

And we're in the EU. Favouratism shouldn't come into it.

You obviously don't understand what A-Levels are. An A-Level in PE does not involve playing soccer every day. It takes biology and other sciences, a bit of law etc. Irish - I'm Irish and could not pass an A-Level, never mind string a sentence together.

The bottom line is that the leaving cert is done at a younger age than A-Levels and there are not enough hours taught in the leaving to go in to the same detail as A-Levels. In my opinion the Leaving Cert equates to GCSE so I can understand why a UK university might prefer an A-Level student.

Fratton Fred

Deleted User wrote: »

How would 3 A's in them subjects be difficult? He's as Irish as it gets... Massive catholic, loves the Irish language and plays sports every day. Traits that I don't think count for much considering what the course was.

And you've missed the entire point of the article or did you even read it? He got into the course with the "soft subjects".. In the future, hopefully it'll be a requirement to do subjects relevant to the course.

And we're in the EU. Favouratism shouldn't come into it.

but the opening paragraph states they have acknowledged that they favour more traditional A levels.

mathie

mathie wrote: »

How would being a massive catholic help you with P.E.?

The playing sports everyday would help.

MagicMarker wrote: »

Yes, because our leaving cert is oh so much better.

I didn't critisize the A Levels.. What are you talkin about?

mathie

Mathie wrote:

How would being a massive catholic help you with P.E.?

Deleted User wrote: »

The playing sports everyday would help.

mathie

mathie wrote: »

One of his A Levels was religion. One was P.E. What's confusing?

MagicMarker

Deleted User wrote: »

I didn't critisize the A Levels.. What are you talkin about?

O Rly?

Finally.. The UK acknowledges the BS that is the A Levels

smk89

Deleted User wrote: »

How would 3 A's in them subjects be difficult? He's as Irish as it gets... Massive catholic, loves the Irish language and plays sports every day. Traits that I don't think count for much considering what the course was.

And you've missed the entire point of the article or did you even read it? He got into the course with the "soft subjects".. In the future, hopefully it'll be a requirement to do subjects relevant to the course.

And we're in the EU. Favouratism shouldn't come into it.

I lived in Northern Ireland got 4 As in hard subjects and didn't get into Queens. Didn't even get into any UK universities and got no interviews.
So I came down here to do the same course but with substantially higher entry requirements.
The UK system is deeply flawed. Oh and he's a nationalist not a catholic.

MagicMarker

MagicMarker wrote: »

O Rly?

Go through my post and find out anywhere I critisize them. I think they're a better system that the Leaving Cert because it's more specialised and doesn't come down to one exam. But in terms of university, people getting into big courses on the back of no related subjects is crazy imo.

smk89 wrote: »

Oh and he's a nationalist not a catholic.

What?

Azureus

I always enived the UK system cuz I get the impression from family living over there that its a lot easier/less academic-ie you get to do extra cirricular activities as school subjects! Im just jealous, but then again Ive more qualifications from going to school here than Im imagine I would have going over there ie I got qualifications in dance and tourism aswell as my leaving cert, where I would have included them in my a-levels if I went to school in England.

MadPatrick

He's your cousin. Be happy for him

Red Hand

MadPatrick wrote: »

He's your cousin. Be happy for him

Or marry him.:pac:

gonedrinking

what a joke that they prefer history over business studies, a subject that is actually useful and for which the people studying it will contribute a lot more to society than people studying history

Lumen

Gaaaah, confusion.

That article is about:

(a) Stupid people taking soft subjects at A-level then being surprised when they can't get into the course they want.

(b) UK private schools preparing students better than UK state schools for the university admissions process.

WTF has it go to do with Irish people and leaving cert points?

There are many known issues with the UK education system, such as the gradual switch towards coursework which favours kids whose parents do the work for them, but that has nothing to do with what the entry requirements are for foreign students.

Lumen

Lumen wrote: »

WTF has it go to do with Irish people and leaving cert points?

Just a comparison on what it took my cousin to get into that course compared to what it would take me. And he did get into that course with BS in fairness.

Lumen

Deleted User wrote: »

Just a comparison on what it took my cousin to get into that course compared to what it would take me. And he did get into that course with BS in fairness.

What does that have to do with the article you posted?

That they're changing it or have been changing it so that 3 soft subjects won't count for much.

Terrontress

Deleted User wrote: »

Just a comparison on what it took my cousin to get into that course compared to what it would take me. And he did get into that course with BS in fairness.

You don't say what the course was. If he wanted to become an RE teacher in an all boys Gaelscoil then those subjects would be ideal.

Think the exact title was Financial Economics and Accounting.. It's been years since I was looking at the course. He's an accountant now.

Lumen

Deleted User wrote: »

That they're changing it or have been changing it so that 3 soft subjects won't count for much.

Reading comprehension fail. The article doesn't say that at all. What's new is that they're giving official guidance to state this completely obvious fact.

It has always been the case that UK universities give offers to UK students based on results in specific subjects.

Well I've just pointed out a case where it didn't happen and it was annoying at the time.. Now they've officially stated that soft subjects aren't worth much and I'm saying it's a good thing.

What's your big problem anyway? If you can't spot any relevance, just forget about the thread.. Easy.

stovelid

Do A levels instead of the leaving cert.

cackhanded

The major problem here is that you are comparing your Leaving Cert results with his A-level results - unfortunately for us UCAS do not deem them to be on a par, they place the Leaving more on a par with GCSE's (which is complete BS in my opinion). But at least their system is more transparent in that Universities let you know before the exams what results you need in order to get a place.
Contrast that with our system where someone can get A grades in Irish, English, Geography, Home Ec, French and B's in Maths and Physics, and then go on to study Medicine!

smk89

smk89 wrote: »

I lived in Northern Ireland got 4 As in hard subjects and didn't get into Queens. Didn't even get into any UK universities and got no interviews.
So I came down here to do the same course but with substantially higher entry requirements.
The UK system is deeply flawed. Oh and he's a nationalist not a catholic.

I don't know. I think it has certain advantages over the CAO. Plus I love the UK because I have free fees.:)

gonedrinking

gonedrinking wrote: »

what a joke that they prefer history over business studies, a subject that is actually useful and for which the people studying it will contribute a lot more to society than people studying history

I take issue with people disregarding history. If history is not studied, the same mistakes will be made over and over again.

mathie

Deleted User wrote: »

One of his A Levels was religion. One was P.E. What's confusing?

I said "How would being a massive catholic help you with P.E.?"
You said "The playing sports everyday would help."

Hence the confusion.

mathie

mathie wrote: »

I said "How would being a massive catholic help you with P.E.?"
You said "The playing sports everyday would help."

Hence the confusion.

Don't see why you asked the question to be honest.. I gave the 3 big traits he has and linked him to his subjects. There wasn't supposed to be a crossover between religion and P.E.