New Body?

Tommyboy40

Has this one had a new body? Reg is from a range rover 3.5 V8 Diesel. Didn't think that they made a 3.5 V8 diesel then

PaulK_CCI

Tommyboy40 wrote: »

Has this one had a new body? Reg is from a range rover 3.5 V8 Diesel. Didn't think that they made a 3.5 V8 diesel then

The series 1 and 2 Discovery's used the chassis and drive train of the Range Rover classic, so it's a relatively straigtforward job to stick a Discovery body on a Range Rover classic chassis., although I am not sure where the 3.5 V8 Diesel is coming from. I know a popular conversion is the 3.5 Mazda Turbo Diesel, but that wasn't a V8...

Although I have absolutely no problems with new Range Rover Classic bodies on an old tax free chassis, I do find these hybrid RR/Disco type of conversions pushing it a bit too far, but nevertheless perfectly legal.

No more different than fitting a Porsche speedster body on the chassis of an old Beetle....

corktina

i always thought with an aluminium body and a steel chassis that it was the chassis that rotted first....or is that just Land Rovers?

si_guru

corktina wrote: »

i always thought with an aluminium body and a steel chassis that it was the chassis that rotted first....or is that just Land Rovers?

That is a ringer for sure. A VRT and road tax dodge 100%. It is Disco' 300 series so 1995 to 1999 model.

The Disco' has a steel sheel with aluminium panel riveted on. Rear inner sills, wheel arch, boot floor and front inner wings disolve in rain!

si_guru

PaulK_CCI wrote: »

Although I have absolutely no problems with new Range Rover Classic bodies on an old tax free chassis,....

Neither do I. But 99.9% of them are ringers too.

PaulK_CCI

si_guru wrote: »

Neither do I. But 99.9% of them are ringers too.

That's a bit harsh and unneccessary...
Here in Holland there are loads and loads of these Range Rover conversions too (in fact I sold a couple of RHD conversion back to Ireland!!), and here we do have ANNUAL NCT on ALL Cars including classics, so all these cars would have been checked and scrutinised every year against VIN number and you name it. Any ringer would have been caught immediately. The fact that still so many of them are on the road and used on an almost daily basis proves to me, it's a perfectly legal way of conversion and there are definitely more proper conversions than ringers!

If someone would stick on a number plate of an old scruffy range rover, that would not be possible here, because the license of the OLD range rover would be signalled and spotted electronically and checked against valid Road tax and Dutch NCT. So it would be called in every year to pass its NCT !!! If someone were to do this, the old Range Rover would still have to pass the NCT!!!

Also regarding the Discovery conversion, it's relatively easy to do, and to be honest, the Guards aren't that thick, in that they would at first glance also wonder how it would be possible to have a discovery on ZV plates. Once thwy would check out the paperwork and chassis number, they would discover that the chassis and drivetrain are off an old Range Rover, and there wouldn't be a legal objection against it.

I can imagine that someone finds these sort of converions unfair, and of course someone sticking a false number plate on a car is Highly Illegal and should be reported by all means, but you can't go accusing everyone that drives around in a converted Hybrids AND stays within the law and just uses the "legal loopholes" to the maximum benefit, that's unfair.
To me it's no different from someone buying a Pre-1980 as opposed to a 1981example car with the intent to AVOID having to NCT the car every year. That's also trying to benefit from a loophole in the law.
And I personally would object a lot more to someone deliberately not maintaining their car to an acceptable roadworthy state just because no NCT is required, and still takes it on the road...

Also in reply to chassis rotting out sooner than a body, that is ofcourse correct: but these conversions are not done because the body is rotten, but usually because somone wants a tax free range rover, but the body is so worn out, scruffy and dirty, that one has the option of completely redoing all the seats, dash, headlining, carpets you name it, or take the body off another classic and stick it on... Quicker and cheaper and you can enjoy all the modern (electric) creature comforts.

si_guru

PaulK_CCI wrote: »

That's a bit harsh and unneccessary...
Here in Holland there are loads and loads of these Range Rover conversions too (in fact I sold a couple of RHD conversion back to Ireland!!), and here we do have ANNUAL NCT on ALL Cars including classics, so all these cars would have been checked and scrutinised every year against VIN number and you name it. Any ringer would have been caught immediately. The fact that still so many of them are on the road and used on an almost daily basis proves to me, it's a perfectly legal way of conversion and there are definitely more proper conversions than ringers!

If someone would stick on a number plate of an old scruffy range rover, that would not be possible here, because the license of the OLD range rover would be signalled and spotted electronically and checked against valid Road tax and Dutch NCT. So it would be called in every year to pass its NCT !!! If someone were to do this, the old Range Rover would still have to pass the NCT!!!

Also regarding the Discovery conversion, it's relatively easy to do, and to be honest, the Guards aren't that thick, in that they would at first glance also wonder how it would be possible to have a discovery on ZV plates. Once thwy would check out the paperwork and chassis number, they would discover that the chassis and drivetrain are off an old Range Rover, and there wouldn't be a legal objection against it.

I can imagine that someone finds these sort of converions unfair, and of course someone sticking a false number plate on a car is Highly Illegal and should be reported by all means, but you can't go accusing everyone that drives around in a converted Hybrids AND stays within the law and just uses the "legal loopholes" to the maximum benefit, that's unfair.
To me it's no different from someone buying a Pre-1980 as opposed to a 1981example car with the intent to AVOID having to NCT the car every year. That's also trying to benefit from a loophole in the law.
And I personally would object a lot more to someone deliberately not maintaining their car to an acceptable roadworthy state just because no NCT is required, and still takes it on the road...

Also in reply to chassis rotting out sooner than a body, that is ofcourse correct: but these conversions are not done because the body is rotten, but usually because somone wants a tax free range rover, but the body is so worn out, scruffy and dirty, that one has the option of completely redoing all the seats, dash, headlining, carpets you name it, or take the body off another classic and stick it on... Quicker and cheaper and you can enjoy all the modern (electric) creature comforts.

Not everyone is a criminal, no. But remember that some people will risk anything to save a few quid in VRT and Road Tax!

That Disco is a ringer, it is obvious. The only part of that from an early Range Rover is the chassis plate.. Held on with 4 rivets.

I am very famaliar with LR Hybrids and so on. I rebuilt a 1980 Stage 1 V8, every nut and bolt. I could have found myself a V5 from a 1960's Land Rover, but what would be the point? Save £180 in Road Tax after spending +£5000 on the rebuild... on a car that does 12mpg.

There is a guy round here (Kerry) with a "1972" 4 door vogue... Auto, Fuel injection... etc,etc.. oddly it looks just like a badly kept (no NCT of course) 1987 vehicle.

If they want to drive a bag of **** that is there choice. But if they are going to massive lengths to avoid VRT, Road tax and NCT.. I am sure they skimping on maintenace too.. lets hope the don't (literally) run in to me.. or you.

Plus they give genuine LR enthusiasts a bad name!

end of rant..

unkel

si_guru wrote: »

Plus they give genuine LR enthusiasts a bad name!

And as Paul said, there's a lot to say for a rigorous yearly NCT test for all cars, including vintage (pre '80) cars. There's no point ringing a car if you're gonna get caught out within the year! This would have to be enforced though, with severe fines, etc. etc. so maybe not so realistic in this country

Caddyman

si_guru wrote: »

There is a guy round here (Kerry) with a "1972" 4 door vogue... Auto, Fuel injection... etc,etc.. oddly it looks just like a badly kept (no NCT of course) 1987 vehicle

that explains a lot...a local man shows a ZV Plated 4 Door 2.5 D Range Rover which has to be 1995 I reckon!!!:mad:

PaulK_CCI

si_guru wrote: »

That Disco is a ringer, it is obvious. The only part of that from an early Range Rover is the chassis plate.. Held on with 4 rivets...

I hate to go on about this, but I feel strong about it because I owned a few myself and as mentioned earlier, I did import a number of modified Range Rovers back into Ireland over the last 10 years, and I somehow feel personally attacked by your accusation that 99% of all modified RR's are ringers.... This would mean that at least 4 of the cars I sold are ringers, which I clearly know are not!!!
So I really do not think you have enough grounds here to make such a accusation. I do know this practise is taking place, but I do not aggree as widespread as you claim...

As mentioned, it's relatively simple to modify an older Range Rover with Disco or younger RR Classic Body, and I have seen and witnessed this done many, many times. I know at least two LAnd Rover specialists here in Holland that do nothing else than Rebuilding new Classic Bodies on a older tax free chassis, and I personally know an Irish LR specialist that does this (and I have seen him rebuild several in person, even an old RR chassis to take the air suspension system of a 94 Soft Dash Classic, which was a huge task and I saw his workmanship with my own eyes, and NO, he did NOT rivet in the chassis plate. He is an official company and cannot afford to mess about with this. Also when a vehicle is checked for authenticity, it is not the VIN plate that one has to go on, but it's the actual stamped chassis number in the RHD front chassis member!!!

si_guru wrote: »

I am very famaliar with LR Hybrids and so on. I rebuilt a 1980 Stage 1 V8, every nut and bolt. I could have found myself a V5 from a 1960's Land Rover, but what would be the point? Save £180 in Road Tax after spending +£5000 on the rebuild... on a car that does 12mpg.

Sure, but you don't see many Land Rover conversions because the saving is minimal due to the fact that you can put Comercial Tax on them and they're not particularly a great cruiser , whereas a Range Rover is quite a comfortable machine... Also, it was your decision to restore and original 1980 Stage 1 instead of an older Tax exempt Land Rover. I agree, in that I would personally also much rather see an original Stage 1 V8, like the one you did, that has being rebuilt numbers matching and all, but I also do not see any harm in someone rebuilding an older Land Rover with a brand new Defender body on it. What I would not aggree to is, like you mention, just "finding an old V5 form and fake the chassis number" because that's ringing.

si_guru wrote: »

If they want to drive a bag of **** that is there choice. But if they are going to massive lengths to avoid VRT, Road tax and NCT.. I am sure they skimping on maintenace too.. lets hope the don't (literally) run in to me.. or you.

This is a totally different matter and has nothing to do with the statement you make that 99% of all modified Land and Range Rovers are ringers. The fact that someone does not maintain his or her car is besides the point. This goes back to the issue that Ireland does not have an all-out NCT test requirement, which I actually feel strong about, that it SHOULD be introduced, rather sooner than later. It would weed out most of the type of excesses that we are talking about in this thread.

si_guru

That Disco' IS a ringer.

This goes back to the issue that Ireland does not have an all-out NCT test requirement, which I actually feel strong about, that it SHOULD be introduced, rather sooner than later. It would weed out most of the type of excesses that we are talking about in this thread.

100% agree.

Your "irish expert" rebild story just confirms it was done to avoid road tax - sorry.

PaulK_CCI

si_guru wrote: »

That Disco' IS a ringer.

Why are you so sure it is a ringer? I mean, if you have evidence of the fact that this car is carrying an illegal license plate or the chassis number has been tampered with, it would be an offence, and you should report the owner to the Tax Authorities, plain and simple. I am sure that I would.

si_guru wrote: »

Your "irish expert" rebild story just confirms it was done to avoid road tax - sorry.

This a load of utter b@ll@x, exuse my expression . When it comes down to the nitty gritty, OF COURSE it is done to avoid paying a large amount of motor tax. Isn't this something that is a very, very important driving force to a lot of Classic Car owners?
If someone who want to own a Porsche 911 and deliberately chooses a pre-81 car over a mid eighties 911, is that person avoiding motor tax?? Like hell he is, but I do not see that is wrong. He is taking advantage of the perfectly Legal "loophole" in the law that cars over 30 years are Tax exempt. If he then spends money on rebuilding his old tatty 77 911S to look like a 964 Carrera with all the creature comforts, there is under current legislation nothing illegal about it, he is just taking advantage of the same legal "loophole". If it is done within the law, I see no problem with it. If it is abused in an incorrect or illegal way, then the people doing so, should be reported, simple!

What would be your opinion on conversions like:
- VW Beetle floorpans with Porsche Speedster bodies.
- Jaguar Mk2's with XJ-R drivetrain (!!!) full modern interior, central locking, electric windows and headrest TV sets
- Porsche 911 rebuilt to 964 lookalikes and 3.6 carerra drivetrain.
- Brand new Heritige MG roadster body on an old MG chassis
and I am sure there are other types of conversions...

Basil Fawlty

The Range Rover conversions where originally done in the 90s to avoid BIK, not for vintage tax purposes. Benifit in kind is based on the vehicles original sale price. So one could buy a new Range Rover and get the body swapped onto an old chassis and save a considerable amount on BIK. At the time these vehicles where only 20 or so years old so vintage tax had nothing to do with it.

I even remember an article in the Irish Independent in the mid 90s about one person who completely rebuilt a 70s Rover to 90s spec. I would love to find this article again.

Tommyboy40

Tommyboy40 wrote: »

Has this one had a new body? Reg is from a range rover 3.5 V8 Diesel. Didn't think that they made a 3.5 V8 diesel then

This is a coincidense, I saw this yoke last last friday fortnight at about 2.30/3.00pm out in Curraheen direction. It was in front of me driving through a housing estate, was very surprised to see the ole plate on a yoke with a Dosco body. It's badged V8 as well, I dropped the window to have a listen to it (speed bump estate and on a slope so thought it might be nice), dirty rotten ole diesel clatter off it. In fairness it looks straight enough. Can't remember exactly now but there was some weird enough stickers on the thing.

kuro2k

RoverJames wrote: »

This is a coincidense, I saw this yoke last last friday fortnight at about 2.30/3.00pm out in Curraheen direction. It was in front of me driving through a housing estate, was very surprised to see the ole plate on a yoke with a Dosco body. It's badged V8 as well, I dropped the window to have a listen to it (speed bump estate and on a slope so thought it might be nice), dirty rotten ole diesel clatter off it. In fairness it looks straight enough. Can't remember exactly now but there was some weird enough stickers on the thing.

Not sure if its a Diesel or "V8 petrol" but also in Cork

Tommyboy40

the problem here is my ideal garage, It has:
Mercedes Sl500 €1566 Already have
Bmw 325 convertible €935 Already have
mercedes CL 600 €1566
mercedes E320 estate €1566
Mercedes 560 SEL €1566
Porsche 928 S2 €1566
BMW 850 €1566

Can anyone afford this?
I have my cars because they give me a rush that no drug can give and while (ahem) they mightn't always be taxed ( fix the roads and I'll tax my car) they are legit and roadworthy