Dublin Port Noise Disrupting Residents

DubPortNoise

Hi

I'm posting this up here on behalf of the residents of 70 - 80 Pigeon House Road and we're trying to have some attention brought to the disturbances from the Port working 24 hours a day several times a week.

We have a youtube video which we are trying to drum up some hits on so that if the Dublin Port Authority or any politicians go on the page they will see that there is a decent amount of people becoming aware of the problem.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hji_aUI1S2w

We really just want to get some sleep

Thank you very much

A.D.

mikemac

Just watched your video, it's very loud alright.

delta_bravo

Would this be akin to living beside an airport and giving out about the planes being too loud?

Its the busiest port in the country, it cant operate from 9-5 or operate "quietly".

Seems a rather ridiculous campaign as there is no real solution to it. The country needs to import and export goods and you chose to live very close to where the majority of this happens.

sdanseo

Agree with the above. The port will NOT shut down because you find it a little loud. If it's really disrupting your sleep, move, improve double glazing, insulate the house better (they are old houses after all) or buy earplugs. There's nothing this will do - it would literally be like asking them to shut down an airport. It will not happen.

zenno

sdonn wrote: »

Agree with the above. The port will NOT shut down because you find it a little loud. If it's really disrupting your sleep, move, improve double glazing, insulate the house better (they are old houses after all) or buy earplugs. There's nothing this will do - it would literally be like asking them to shut down an airport. It will not happen.

thats loud as hell' I would go insane if i had to listen to that noise pollution four nights a week even for one night i would go mental.

I honestly don't know how you will stop this but i would try my best to get something done. the other thing is this...if these people tried to sell their house and move not one person on the planet would purchase a house because of the noise so these people are stuck with high decibel noise all the time.

I live right beside the airport and it is nowere near as loud as that port noise. plus the airport is quiet at night until six in the morning so thats no comparison as the above commenter said.

good luck with you're endevor i wish you luck. ps. maybe the european court of human rights can help you there.

even if the european court of human rights were to get the council to purchase you're house so you can live elsewere would you actually take the deal and move ?

mikemac

Reminds me of when I moved to Drumcondra and spent my days bitching about Croke Park match days
Actually, the most militant residents in the area were those who moved there, not the elderly people who were there all their lives!

Ah no, it's very loud. Would DCC give you a grant for double glazing? Ask them, all they can do is say no

Degsy

feelingstressed wrote: »

Ah no, it's very loud. Would DCC give you a grant for double glazing? Ask them, all they can do is say no

I know somebody who's family house used to be 200 metres from the end of one of the runways in dublin Airport..when planes got airborne the noise became unbearble as they passed overhead.
After much hectoring and hassling,either the airport or the council stumped up for new windows and soundproof insulation so its worth a try

Cookie_Monster

The port has been there for hundreds of years and as probably the most important artery of trade for the entire country has every right and expectation to work 24/7. The 24/7 is nothing new either, thats how major ports the world over work.

You/ your parents etc must have known of the port operations when you first moved there, surely it was taken into consideration at the time? What do you really expect here?

bladebrew

christ i didnt realise there were houses that close to the cranes!
from reading the youtube comments it appears that dublin port didnt get planning permission to actually put the cranes there,
if that is the case then the op may have a chance at getting something done,

but if everthing is all legal i doubt anything will be done tbh,

mikemac

John Gormley from the Greens was your local TD and a minister for the last few years.

If you can't get the Minister of the Environment which is just up the way in the Custom House to do anything by now you've no chance with the next Dáil.

timmythesheep

My understanding was that the cranes were built without planning permission. Why did no one complain prior to the window of opportunity ending??

AnonoBoy

How long has this been going on for?

While I sympathise I doubt very much that you're going to be successful in shutting down the cranes in the port.

They work all through the night several nights a week?

Do they have permission to do this? If so then you have no case I wouldn't say.

If they don't then you need to get your local politicians on to it.

gurramok

Since 2002 Anonoboy when that crane was installed. They did complain back then and were footdragged along by the port. As far as i know there is a time stipulation as to when objections can be heard and Dublin Port prolonged the 'talks' as long as possible so the time would expire. Also, those houses were there way before that crane was installed, maybe 100+ years!!

On the port itself, come ignorant comments here. The port is located on both the southside(complainants) and the northside(the biggest part).

Why can't the company use the northern section for overnight loading/unloading instead?

Taltos

I am sorry to be heartless but it's the port - what do you want them to do?
Hold the ships out at sea and shuttle them all in during an 8hr period - tide or no tide?

Suggest that you look into moving home.

timmythesheep

I have been living one the N11 for 27 years. Back then tragic is not what it is today. I also happen to have a bus stop outside my drive which has the additional noise of bus engines and people. What can I do - ask the council to restrict traffic on a main road?? No!

But I have installed double glazing, have heavy lined curtins in all rooms and sleep with the Windows closed even in summer. I also alternate between ear plugs and white noise machine when trying to sleep.

Unfortunately I this this is something the residents will just have to live with

bennyx_o

gurramok wrote: »

Why can't the company use the northern section for overnight loading/unloading instead?

Reasonable idea, but it's not as easy as that. MTL has contracts with certain container lines that the terminals on the north side don't have. Each terminal has their own charge (Container off the ship and then delivered to the truck) which are all negotiated as part of the contracts. Also, some of the ships MTL used to cater for (possibly still do) are too big to be worked on on the northside. I remember one ship had to be turned around half way through discharge to complete it.

markpb

Taltos wrote: »

I am sorry to be heartless but it's the port - what do you want them to do?
Hold the ships out at sea and shuttle them all in during an 8hr period - tide or no tide?

Suggest that you look into moving home.

Would you say the same to people living beside an airport? There have been noise restrictions on airports for decades.

timmythesheep

markpb wrote: »

Would you say the same to people living beside an airport? There have been noise restrictions on airports for decades.

Restrictions are usually put in at the planning stage. I think it strage that the 7 year sppeals window has passed and the residents are only now raising noise as an issue. Has the same problem not been there for a few years?

gurramok

bennyx_o wrote: »

Reasonable idea, but it's not as easy as that. MTL has contracts with certain container lines that the terminals on the north side don't have. Each terminal has their own charge (Container off the ship and then delivered to the truck) which are all negotiated as part of the contracts. Also, some of the ships MTL used to cater for (possibly still do) are too big to be worked on on the northside. I remember one ship had to be turned around half way through discharge to complete it.

Well, I have noticed huge container ships docked on the northside near to where the ferries are. Whether they have the right gear on shore is another story.

What's the legality of making so much noise beside people's homes if the above regarding contracts is indeed the case?

timmythesheep wrote: »

Restrictions are usually put in at the planning stage. I think it strage that the 7 year sppeals window has passed and the residents are only now raising noise as an issue. Has the same problem not been there for a few years?

Did you not read the post? Foot-dragging and false promises by Dublin Port, the thread starter might know more. Its just gone 8 yrs since installation.

bennyx_o

gurramok wrote: »

Well, I have noticed huge container ships docked on the northside near to where the ferries are. Whether they have the right gear on shore is another story.

What's the legality of making so much noise beside people's homes if the above regarding contracts is indeed the case?

To be honest, I wouldn't imagine it's even brought up during negotiations. I can't comment on how MTL is run but I Used to work in one of the terminals on the northside, and with certain container lines the ship would start work on arrival with the agent paying any overtime incurred, and other lines the ship would start at 8am.

timmythesheep

markpb wrote: »

Did you not read the post? Foot-dragging and false promises by Dublin Port, the thread starter might know more. Its just gone 8 yrs since installation.

Why did the residents not bring a court case against the company to which they would be compelled to answer?

OP you may be able to answer the above and also why the group is only now going widely public??

gurramok

This may explain things http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0125/1224288249064.html

Irish Times wrote:

THE DUBLIN Port Company has told residents of Pigeon House Road that they should go to court if they want to put an end to sleep deprivation from the night-time operation of a container terminal near their homes.

The terminal, operated by Marine Terminals Ltd (MTL), bills itself as “Ireland’s largest and most modern container terminal” and was recently refitted with at a cost of €25 million. It has three gantry cranes capable of handling Panamax container vessels.

The gantries operate day and night, generating noise in the neighbourhood “significantly above the guideline values for community noise to avoid sleep disturbance . . . as recommended by the World Health Organisation”, according to noise consultants Fehily Timoney.

“We are at our wits end,” said Alexander Downes, a spokesman for 25 local residents, who range in age from six weeks to 86 years. “We have tried for years to work with Dublin Port to bring about a resolution to this matter, without success.”

Julie McCann (86), who had been living at Coastguard Station since 1943, moved out two years ago. “I could not stand the noise from the docks,” she said. “It seems to get worse at night. No sleep – my nerves were in bits listening to the crash of containers.”

Last May a report compiled by Byrne Environmental, for the residents, concluded that noise monitoring results “demonstrated that MTL site activities have a very significant detrimental impact . . . and that there is unambiguous evidence that noise complaints are justified”.

The Coastguard Station Residents Group claim that the three gantries were erected in 2002 by MTL without planning permission or a foreshore licence. “This means that the operational hours and excessive noise levels are unregulated without planning conditions.”

In a report commissioned by the residents, planning consultants Declan Brassil and Co said: “It is our opinion that works carried out in 2002 would not appear to be authorised under the provisions of a Harbour Works Order, made under the Harbours Act 1946.”

However, the seven-year period for bringing any enforcement action under the planning laws had now expired. This “does not have the effect of making any unauthorised development lawful” but merely rendered it “immune from enforcement or legal proceedings”.

Mr Downes said Dublin Port “played us along over the years and are aware that they have evaded on the seven-year planning rule”. Representations to local politicians had also failed to “end to this ongoing and appalling infringement of our rights”.

The residents group met port chief executive Eamonn O’Reilly last November to present him with its findings. “We offered him two options – either a cessation of night-time work outside our homes or rehouse the residents in the area,” the group said.

Savills estate agents subsequently valued the houses most affected. “We feel that it is a major issue for a small community to offer to leave their homes, particularity since some of the octogenarian members were born in their houses,” the group said.

“We felt the end was in sight,” it added. But Dublin Port had since “pulled back from this”, and Mr O’Reilly had told residents at a meeting on January 14th that the port “could not get a ‘capital return’ on the purchase of our homes and ‘we should go the court route’”.

The residents said it was now clear that Dublin Port, which has won two “good neighbour” awards for corporate social responsibility, had “no interest in resolving this matter [and] find an end to this . . . infringement of our right to a night’s sleep”.

Queries to Dublin Port were not answered and MTL – owned by the Peel Ports Group (formerly Mersey Docks and Harbour Company) – could not be contacted for comment.

Vic_08

Well fro that it sounds like the residents are pretty much fukked. If MTL are basically advising them to sue them they are pretty confident in being able to win any court action.

I have to wonder did it not become obvious at say the 6 year mark that they were stringing the residents along in order to run out the clock on legal remedies? Surely someone; the residents, their solicitors or the people they commissioned to provide reports on the matter should have had the wit to file the correct legal challenges knowing that once the deadline passed they were esentially at the mercy of the port company's good will.

gurramok

Update for anyone who has access to Facebook(print of Sunday Times story is there)
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1736010759018&set=o.195706123776363&ref=nf

Basically, the council ruled that the cranes were not exempt from planning permission. That spells trouble for the port.

Cookie_Monster

gurramok wrote: »

That spells trouble for the port.

I doubt it, they'll simply apply for retention permission and be granted it due to the importance of the structures.

Oswalder

The noise is loud indeed. I can actually hear it really clearly from my house down near Star of the Sea church right now at 1am on Wed. And before anyone asks, we put in double glazing a few years ago. Yes, all windows are locked shut.

Most of the people living there didn't buy since the cranes were erected. I'm sure they'd find it even harder to sell their houses (current climate aside) now given this issue, even if they wanted to sell. However, I think they want thei quality of life back.

I'm really sympathetic to everyone who lives even closer to that din as they'll have disturbed sleep for the very long term.

newtodub

I can here the containers bashing at night from upper sheriff street and that's in my newly built apartment.

I don't think they need to shut down, but certainly improve the amount of noise they create

Captain Chaos

newtodub wrote: »

I can here the containers bashing at night from upper sheriff street and that's in my newly built apartment.

I don't think they need to shut down, but certainly improve the amount of noise they create

That's the problem right there. All new buildings have no where near the quality of the old houses built in the 60s and 70s. Thinner cavity and partition walls as they were all built quick and as cheap as possible during the boom.

marion ryan

i am brand new to this and was looking at where i could complain and stumbled across this, well i am living on pigeon house road 25 years and in the last year the noise has become unbearable, starting at 5am, this is unreasonable, could they put silencers on ramp, u literally jump when they start the roll on roll off. hope someone has the answer. help