Viewing Scope.

Billy Bunting

Hi,

I've always had an interest in bird watching and nature in general. i have recently decided to give this pastime more of my time, this in mind i'm on the look out for a viewing scope for beginers, new or second hand but at a reasonable price to begin with.
What should i be looking at when searching for a scope?

Thanks.

trebor28

there is one in aldi tomorrow for under €25.

http://aldi.ie/ie/html/offers/offers_week05Thursday11.htm?WT.z_src=main


dont ask me how good or bad it is though.

Billy Bunting

Thanks very much for the reply, at that money it's worth a try.

trebor28

definitely, you'll blow more money on something in your life yet.

i bought a set on bins from aldi a year or 2 ago.
€17 i think, 12 x 50 mag. worked fine still have them, though i dropped them one day and the are not in focus together now, still fine through either or.

there are some out there that cost 1k, or more. they'd want to be making you your dinner for that price! imo

boneless

If you have a bit of cash, try one of the Opticron scopes. They are good for their price. I think that Birdwatch Ireland sell them through the on-line shop.

Ditch

boneless wrote: »

Opticron

Last night, I was so drunk I just collapsed :rolleyes: But, I distinctly remember, before passing out, trying to put together a nicely live linked post for ye.

What I was trying to say is that ye want an Opticron. One of their HR ED ones will do ye.

Start seeing birds through a decent 'scope and ye won't know how ye ever lived without such views.


Word to the wise: Don't ever agree to have a look through anyones Swarovski 'scope! <mod snip> Those things cost £K's and no one's got the right to see such mind numbing clarity!

Boneless; Am I right, or am I right?

boneless

Actually..... I have a Swarovski.... but I keep it quiet !!

boneless

I scrimped and saved for ages to get mine. They are fantastic but I know people who swear by Leica as well ... I got a great deal on a pair of Swarovski 8x30 SLC bins at the same time I got the scope. Second hand of course.

Ditch

OMG! Ye really have got one?! Respect!!! I thought ye were just getting me at it!

No, fair play to ye. One should have to do the time for something like that. Not like this dozy toe nail; Decided she needed a hobby and just asked for the very best kit there is. Money no object. Pffft!

Leica Televid? Naah. Willy wavers. You Ever seen a Leica in a cover? Those buggers just like standing around with the blue and silver flashing.

It's like the British Gypsy scene in the 70's. Trailer all chrome and blue? Dogs bits! Let everyone see what ye were worth.

Swaro'? That's the quiet man at the back of the rowdy crowd

Billy Bunting

trebor28 wrote: »

there is one in aldi tomorrow for under €25.

http://aldi.ie/ie/html/offers/offers_week05Thursday11.htm?WT.z_src=main


dont ask me how good or bad it is though.

Got that, doesnt look bad,do me till i get an idea of things, thanks for all the suggestions guys.

sables2

Hi all.
Listen i've an idea...like Ditch's on a new thread for 'Nest Boxes' - can't we ALL agree: we NEED a new thread on "Spotting Scopes & Binoculars", or "Optics" (to be concise) . Agreed?? Moderators.....
Think it's really a practical idea.

For the record: DON'T waste your money on Aldi's scope....please. go online to Amazon or Birdwatchireland. As Ditch said - Opticron are VERY good and totally underrated optics. I have an old pair of binoculars: Docter 10x40 HD Superb and relatively cheap. €250. They are on par with Leica Trinovids in my personal opinion. If your on the look out for a very fine scope at a good price: Nikon ED 50. A beautiful mini scope, light and as sharp as a butchers knife :D. Check out what i mean when you look at Amazons buyers comments on 'em!!;)

Ditch

sables2 wrote: »

Hi all.
Listen i've an idea...like Ditch's on a new thread for 'Next Boxes' - can't we ALL agree: we NEED a new thread on "Spotting Scopes & Binoculars", or "Optics" (to be concise) . Agreed?? Moderators.....
Think it's really a practical idea.

Hmm ..... As long as it doesn't descend into a peeing match? Like any " Which PC " sort of thread is doomed to go ~ even without anyone mentioning they have a Mac!

Why not just do as I did? Start a Thread. Ye could call it ..........

" Class Glass "

Feargal as Luimneach

If somebody is going to use a telescope/binoculars alot, they may as well spend the Euros and get a decent one. A good scope will last forever if looked after.

sables2

Hi Feargal. Agree with you, a good scope will last a life time as will quality binoculars. Unfortunately, or fortunately depending on your opinions - there's a good few guys...(not many gals) who ONLY compare their hardware: Bino's & Scopes and their mechanical features with aesthetic looks. Boys and their toys type of thing.
This suggested thread.. (by me ).. IF it did get wings and fly away then suddenly crash land :eek:....guess who's to blame.....it takes two too tango . Seriously, if we try it: it might be worth a 'scope' :P

littlebug

There's already a big thread on binoculars which also has some info on scopes. There's a lot of good information in there that would be a pity to lose so maybe just merge with that thread (maybe with a title change?) rather than start a new one?

Eta- but I'm open to suggestion!

sables2

littlebug wrote: »

There's already a big thread on binoculars which also has some info on scopes. There's a lot of good information in there that would be a pity to lose so maybe just merge with that thread (maybe with a title change?) rather than start a new one?

Eta- but I'm open to suggestion!

Sounds realistic littlebug. Will check it out

sables2

Sounds realistic littlebug. Will check it out

trebor28

sables2 wrote: »

Hi all.
For the record: DON'T waste your money on Aldi's scope....please. go online to Amazon or Birdwatchireland. As Ditch said - Opticron are VERY good and totally underrated optics. I have an old pair of binoculars: Docter 10x40 HD Superb and relatively cheap. €250. They are on par with Leica Trinovids in my personal opinion. If your on the look out for a very fine scope at a good price: Nikon ED 50. A beautiful mini scope, light and as sharp as a butchers knife :D. Check out what i mean when you look at Amazons buyers comments on 'em!!;)

sables,
what about those of us that cant spend 2,3 or 400 on something that we might not use that often but at the same time would like to have.

this won is on amazon.com for about $80. it might not be as good as the one you recommended but has favourable reviews and wont break the bank!

http://www.amazon.com/Meade-81011-Travel-View-20/dp/B001BMYBLA/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top

sables2

Hi Trebor,
Ok, you have me there. Times we live in certainly dictate our living standards, and so called 'luxuries' are not the fore most priority! I for one would NEVER pay out 100's of € on a scope, and not a chance in hell would i splash out €1,500 on a Zeiss FL Scope..even if i had it. I have one new scope (€360 in total) Nikon ED 50, and a second hand pair of bino's €100.One thing i will say: don't buy complete rubbish, as in an Aldi/Lidl type scope - the optics are simply not there and you WILL in the end suffer headaches, etc. For the extra €'s buy a half decent scope: Check this one out below: I know it's not so cheap, but it's a reasonable make and have quality products. Celestron U.S Company know by many in the Astronomy (& Bird-watching) circle. (PS: Below the scope in question is the Celestron refractor 80-45)

http://www.amazon.co.uk/ref=gno_logo

Half-cocked

I bought an Aldi scope a while back, I needed something that could live under the car seat with a window mount attached. It was cheap enough that I wouldn't lose any sleep if it was nicked. Anyway, it was a waste of money, at the lowest magnification on a bright day it was just about useable, otherwise utter crap. (OK, I'm spoilt - my gf has a Swarovski and I use a Questar - needed for ring reading, not posing!) If cash is a problem, one of the best value spotting scopes is the old model Bushnell Spacemaster with a 15-45x eyepiece. They come up on fleabay occasionally. I replaced the Aldi scope with one that came to €75 inc P&P. With optics, you get what you pay for but with a used Bushnell you get a hell of a lot.

Ditch

Half-cocked wrote: »

I use a Questar - needed for ring reading, not posing!)

That's the thing I was trying to think of!I seem to remember the picture in the advert made it look like a black paint tin, or something? But, they reckon ye could see the mites on a Dunlin's feathers.

Strange, I only ever saw the one, in the field.

'Mind you, at the sort of price I recall they were going for .....

Half-cocked

Ditch wrote: »

That's the thing I was trying to think of!I seem to remember the picture in the advert made it look like a black paint tin, or something? But, they reckon ye could see the mites on a Dunlin's feathers.

Strange, I only ever saw the one, in the field.

'Mind you, at the sort of price I recall they were going for .....

Yes, looks more like something a surveyor would use than a telescope. Unbelievable image quality. I can read rings on a brent goose at 400 metres in twilight with it. You don't see too many in the field because apart from the horrendous price, they aren't waterproof, are very delicate and very fiddly to use. They also close focus to a few feet so make a useful low power field microscope too:D

sables2

Hi Half-cocked,
Is that Questar still on the market? Seems a nice scope...or microscope . Bushnell was never on my favourite scope, don't know why really. The one in question you have explained about seems good though...the Bushnell Space master - Is the optics good? If cash wasn't an issue i'd buy the new (angled) Zeiss Victory Diascope. What a baby :). It's expensive: €2,000+. A friend of mine who's big into birding has one. I saw through it at dusk last week viewing rooks putting the finishing touches to a nest in tree tops from about 800 meters away. I saw the pine cones clearly as the blinking of the rooks eyes!! You DO get what you pay for.

Ditch

Half-cocked wrote: »

They aren't waterproof, are very delicate and very fiddly to use.

Oh lord! Hmmm .....

To 'Paraphrase' a situation? I was once a passenger in a van. We came alongside a Honda 'Goldwing' with all the trimmings. Including, of course, fat, bearded, forty + year old rider. None the less; Impressive bike.

I turned to the driver and said; " Goldwing. Impressive bike. "

Barely bothering to move his eyes left he replied; " Impressive price too. And, for That sort of money? I'd want something that at least kept the rain off me and offered me some sort of protection in a wreck! "

I shut up then .....

Half-cocked

sables2 wrote: »

Hi Half-cocked,
Is that Questar still on the market? Seems a nice scope...or microscope . Bushnell was never on my favourite scope, don't know why really. The one in question you have explained about seems good though...the Bushnell Space master - Is the optics good? If cash wasn't an issue i'd buy the new (angled) Zeiss Victory Diascope. What a baby :). It's expensive: €2,000+. A friend of mine who's big into birding has one. I saw through it at dusk last week viewing rooks putting the finishing touches to a nest in tree tops from about 800 meters away. I saw the pine cones clearly as the blinking of the rooks eyes!! You DO get what you pay for.

Questars start at about US$3000 new:eek: They rarely turn up used. Unless you have a real specialist need for one, you're better off getting a normal spotting scope. The optics in the Bushnell Spacemaster are pretty good, but obviously aren't in the same league as Zeiss, Leica or Swarovski. Some of the Bushnells do have a yellowish colour cast which gives a 'warmer' image, but not to everyones liking.

sables2

Half-cocked wrote: »

Questars start at about US$3000 new:eek: They rarely turn up used. Unless you have a real specialist need for one, you're better off getting a normal spotting scope. The optics in the Bushnell Spacemaster are pretty good, but obviously aren't in the same league as Zeiss, Leica or Swarovski. Some of the Bushnells do have a yellowish colour cast which gives a 'warmer' image, but not to everyones liking.

$3,000 wow :eek:. Think i'll get that second hand car now Ok, that's interesting to know about the Bushnell Space master - colour fringing is common in many relatively cheap scopes. It's not the end of the world, but some people are over fussy and want 'perfect optics'. In-fact there's 'optics forums' on them alone :eek:. You get 'em saying: "my scope has no or little 'CA'....(collimation aberration) fully multi coated with ED...(extra low dispersion) glass" blah, de blah, de blah :rolleyes:. All said and done: Swarovski are THE Rolls Royce of optics, no doubt they are the birders 'choice' of optics....(choice been the operative word)

LostCovey

Half-cocked wrote: »

Questars start at about US$3000 new:eek: They rarely turn up used. Unless you have a real specialist need for one, you're better off getting a normal spotting scope. The optics in the Bushnell Spacemaster are pretty good, but obviously aren't in the same league as Zeiss, Leica or Swarovski. Some of the Bushnells do have a yellowish colour cast which gives a 'warmer' image, but not to everyones liking.

I had a look through a Questar, and I wasn't impressed. I think they were put on a pedestal a long time ago, and the world has passed them by.

As mentioned earlier, they aren't waterproof, they are very fragile (you carry them in a foam-lined case AND EVEN THEN you can't carry them far on bumpy roads without them going out of line.

The image is reversed (unless you use a corrector lens, which loses light and defeats the point).

Best scope I have seen (and I do not own one unfortunately) is a big new Kowa. Don't know the model, it had an 83 or 85mm objective, and was so amazingly bright and sharp.

I would love to see it side by side with a Questar.

LostCovey

Half-cocked

LostCovey wrote: »

I had a look through a Questar, and I wasn't impressed. I think they were put on a pedestal a long time ago, and the world has passed them by.

As mentioned earlier, they aren't waterproof, they are very fragile (you carry them in a foam-lined case AND EVEN THEN you can't carry them far on bumpy roads without them going out of line.

The image is reversed (unless you use a corrector lens, which loses light and defeats the point).

Best scope I have seen (and I do not own one unfortunately) is a big new Kowa. Don't know the model, it had an 83 or 85mm objective, and was so amazingly bright and sharp.


I would love to see it side by side with a Questar.

LostCovey

You won't see any difference between a Questar and a good spotting scope under normal conditions. The Questar comes into its own when the light fades, I can keep reading rings for about 20 mins in the evening after the Swarovski has given up - you can get a lot of extra readings in that time as the brent geese are coming in to roost. As I said earlier, its a specialist piece of gear and useless to most birders. A lot of Questars are quite old (mine is from the 70's) and the mirrors tarnish over time. You may have looked through one that was due a clean (more mega-bucks:() which would explain why you weren't too impressed.

Kowa make really good scopes, almost as good as the most expensive ones, for quite a bit less pricewise.

Half-cocked

sables2 wrote: »

Ok, that's interesting to know about the Bushnell Space master - colour fringing is common in many relatively cheap scopes. It's not the end of the world, but some people are over fussy and want 'perfect optics'.

I should have been a bit clearer, the Bushnell doesn't have much colour fringing as such, it has an overall cast to the colour. A bit like an 81 series camera filter, it 'warms up' the image. You may hate it.

I agree about some people being over fussy, wanting perfect optics. In my experience, these people spend more time talking about how great their gear is than looking through it;) If you think its bad with spotting scopes, you should read some of the crap on photography forums about MTF charts etc. Most of these nerds spend their whole time using their lenses on test charts and never actually do any real photography. When you ask them to post some 'real world' pictures they took that demonstrate what they are rabbiting on about they go all quiet and disappear! I never deleted a good picture just because some geeks tests showed that it may in fact have 1% barrel distortion or even worse, .5 EV vignetting at the corners!!!!



I think its the same with spotting scopes, forget all the geek tests and buy what you can afford and what you yourself like. There are other considerations apart from optical quality. Ask yourself the following questions:

1. How much am I willing to pay?
2. Is it light enough for me to carry around with a tripod?
3. Is it comfortable to use - eyepiece relief, position of focusing knob/wheel etc.
4. What size do I want? Will it fit in my luggage if I am travelling with it?
5. Straight through or angled eyepiece?
6. What magnification will I need? Fixed or zoom eyepiece?

I've owned 6 or 7 spotting scopes over the years and the above questions come from experience, both bad and good:D Hope they are useful to anyone thinking of buying a scope. I'm not an 'expert' on scopes, but I use them enough know a wee bit about them. One other thing, the best scope in the world will be useless if you don't fix it to a steady tripod, factor the cost of a quality tripod into your budget too.

boneless

^^ Some very good tips up above there!