Treyarch dev says "negative" gamers the biggest problem facing the games industry

PogMoThoin

What, in your mind, is the biggest problem facing the games industry today, and if you had the power, how would you fix it?

Personally, as a community manager who lives in the media or social media world every day, I think the social culture of video games is moving in a more negative direction as technology and social media continues to grow. Rather than growing with it, the trend seems to be devolving. More and more gamers seem to forget what this industry is all about.
It’s a creative industry – the most creative form of entertainment in existence. Too many developers who try new things are getting burned by “pundits” and angry entitled fans who look to be contrarian, sometimes simply for the sake of being contrarian. The only thing this attitude aims to achieve is stunt that creativity and innovation even further, which is something that no rational gamer looking to be entertained would want to do.

http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/02/02/treyarch-dev-says-negative-gamers-the-biggest-problem-facing-the-games-industry/

WTF Treyarch?
The negativity displayed by gamers these days is due to the poor quality of games that are being released. These days “the industry” isn't about creativity, it's about churning out recycled shooters annually to satisfy investors.

RMD

Actually I think he's right to a certain extent. To many people have no problem complaining and moaning about everything under the sun when it comes to the gaming industry these days, expecting absolute perfection. Bringing out a game every year where they have 2 years to develop it allows more chances for a good game to be created.

How can you justify the CoD series being the best selling game series of all time on Xbox 360 / PS3 if for the most part they're poor quality games.

cherryghost

No, unfinished games is the biggest problem facing the games industry

Yakult

haha the cheek of Treyarch to say such a statement. They are not in any position to comment on "negative gamers" when they themselves are such a negative developer.

He also failed to answer the question on how to fix it. I guess it was a smart move not to as he would only be shooting themselves in the foot.

More and more gamers seem to forget what this industry is all about.

And more and more of the industry seems to forget whats games/gamers are about. Something that provides a memorable and enjoyable experience. Not something that takes a month to even be able to play etc.

krudler

cherryghost wrote: »

No, unfinished games is the biggest problem facing the games industry

Completely agree, updates on day one release are ridiculous, Heavy Rains was over 200 mb if i remember correctly. Before online support a game was delayed until finished, nowadays games are released unfinished and patched for weeks for every little problem that they knew existed before release.

gouche

PogMoThoin wrote: »

http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/02/02/treyarch-dev-says-negative-gamers-the-biggest-problem-facing-the-games-industry/

WTF Treyarch?
The negativity displayed by gamers these days is due to the poor quality of games that are being released. These days “the industry” isn't about creativity, it's about churning out recycled shooters annually to satisfy investors.

I think the point he's trying to make is the only safe option for most publishers these days is to churn out recycled shooters annually as that's all that sells enough to warrant the huge production costs.

Also if you think there's no creativity in the industry your buying your games in the wrong place. Check out Steam - tonnes of grade A titles as well as shedloads more from indie developers. They may not be all that great but they're certainly creative.

everlast75

RMD wrote: »

Actually I think he's right to a certain extent. To many people have no problem complaining and moaning about everything under the sun when it comes to the gaming industry these days, expecting absolute perfection. Bringing out a game every year where they have 2 years to develop it allows more chances for a good game to be created.

How can you justify the CoD series being the best selling game series of all time on Xbox 360 / PS3 if for the most part they're poor quality games.

Just a word of caution on that line of logic.... Elton John is one of the biggest selling artists of all time and he's an undeniable cúnt churning out tripe music. The masses are not to be trusted in some respects.

In fairness, the game did appear to be rushed out.. the number of patches required in such a short space of time does raise some eyebrows. However, that could also be viewed in a positive light as they "appear" to be listening to the gaming community and endevouring to fix problems where they arise.

I don't believe Black Ops or indeed Modern Warfare was broken to any huge degree. If i were to say that it would be hypocritical seen as I have 25 days of play on the latter, with the former not leaving my Xbox since I bought it.

If I were to say what was wrong with them, it would be without a doubt the bullsh*t tactics of noob-tubing, commando-pro, last stand.... all chosen by the players.

krudler

everlast75 wrote: »

If I were to say what was wrong with them, it would be without a doubt the bullsh*t tactics of noob-tubing, commando-pro, last stand.... all chosen by the players.

to be fair though, they should have realised how unfair a lot of perk combos were, just because somethings meant to be used one way doesnt mean everyones gonna use it like that. OMA for example, I used to use it to change to an anti air class with cold blooded so i didnt have to lose stopping power on my main class.as other boardsies do as well, but then theres the grenade spammers, they should have fixed it so you can only change class twice max in a life or something.

COD players are mostly kids who are, lets be frank, dicks. who want to wreck other peoples games, its a rotten community for the most part, of course theres great players who play objectives and the like and dont rely on nooby tactics, but therell always be those people who abuse anything in a game and developers should be more aware of this.

yimrsg

What, in your mind, is the biggest problem facing the games industry today, and if you had the power, how would you fix it?

Personally, as a community manager who lives in the media or social media world every day, I think the social culture of video games is moving in a more negative direction as technology and social media continues to grow. Rather than growing with it, the trend seems to be devolving. More and more gamers (& Developers/producers) seem to forget what this industry is all about.

It’s a creative industry – the most creative form of entertainment in existence. Too many developers who try new things are getting burned by “pundits” and angry entitled fans who look to be contrarian, sometimes simply for the sake of being contrarian. Critical does not equal contrarian. The only thing this attitude aims to achieve is stunt that creativity and innovation even further, which is something that no rational gamer looking to be entertained would want to do.

Consumers won't just accept rehashed bile year on year. If a game is good enough, players will stay with it. If that game is constantly improved it will be loved. Look at CounterStrike Source on the pc and Valve. Halo 3 had a huge following because of a good product that was given lots of attention post release. Treyarch aren't exactly bastions of originality so for them to complain about the state of gaming doesn't hold any water with me.

He seems to have gone off on one. It's like a farmer blaming the milk buyers for having a shoddy product, not evaluating why they are complaining. Treyarch produce sequels, so to talk about being the most creative form of entertainment is like saying a house painter is akin to a painter from the renaissance. Sure they could paint the Cistine Chapel, but just in one colour.

On the whole I do think the games industry is heading for a backlash as more and more games are sequels (there is cost benefits to making one rather than a new Intellectual Property/brand recognition/less risk/etc.) and original concepts for games are less likely to be chosen for production.

The console makers seem happy to churn out new addons for the machines mimicking each other till all we have are shades of grey. Most of the companys going bust in the game industry are the ones who did take risks on what to develop, that did produce flops but also produced the true gems, those remaining bought out their competitors or produce safe yearly sequels to stay in the black.

Indie games will probably lead the revival where small teams of dedicated individuals unshackled by the larger companies will produce rough diamonds which will in turn be bought out by the larger ones or grow to become a new player in the market. And so the cycle continues.

sierra117x

Quote:
What, in your mind, is the biggest problem facing the games industry today, and if you had the power, how would you fix it?

Personally, as a community manager who lives in the media or social media world every day, I think the social culture of video games is moving in a more negative direction as technology and social media continues to grow. Rather than growing with it, the trend seems to be devolving. More and more gamers seem to forget what this industry is all about.
It’s a creative industry – the most creative form of entertainment in existence. Too many developers who try new things are getting burned by “pundits” and angry entitled fans who look to be contrarian, sometimes simply for the sake of being contrarian. The only thing this attitude aims to achieve is stunt that creativity and innovation even further, which is something that no rational gamer looking to be entertained would want to do.

ha ha what a load of bull ! is he for real or what ? stunt creativity ? so you throw out the same crap every year and get lashed out of it for doing it wrong . then you have some massively unique and new games like alan wake or dead space that push a few boundries and mix things up and get a hugely posative response for their hard work . but hes right clearly negative gamers are the problem here . because we had such a big issue when he created a huge steaming dump and asked us to swallow it as a game

Shammy

I'm worried about you mate , between swallowing dump , liking purple helmut, wearing a manbag , not to mention what Clive is using you for..................:pac:

I think you've been led astray due to my absence in the lobby.

krudler

what Treyarch are basically saying is "here the game, its got stuff you may not like, stfu and enjoy it anyway" which is bull, theres stuff about every game that will annoy someone, but the fact that they simply refuse to remove 2nd Chance, despite it being the biggest pain in the arse about the game, Ghost pro I can live with, but 2nd chance is just a nightmare, the amuont of ammo I've wasted pumping bullets into a guy or getting killed cos one guy goes into last stand andn im already shooting at a teammate before i realise hes shooting back with his megapowered pistol.

I must upload a clip from the other night where a guy was crouched in the window beside C flag on Firing Range, I was running up the metal container, saw him, shot him, and then he shot me twice while i was prone and killed me, utterly ludicrous, i took a full burst of AR fire to put him into 2nd chance and he kills me from 50 yards away with a handgun.

RMD

everlast75 wrote: »

Just a word of caution on that line of logic.... Elton John is one of the biggest selling artists of all time and he's an undeniable cúnt churning out tripe music. The masses are not to be trusted in some respects.

In fairness, the game did appear to be rushed out.. the number of patches required in such a short space of time does raise some eyebrows. However, that could also be viewed in a positive light as they "appear" to be listening to the gaming community and endevouring to fix problems where they arise.

I don't believe Black Ops or indeed Modern Warfare was broken to any huge degree. If i were to say that it would be hypocritical seen as I have 25 days of play on the latter, with the former not leaving my Xbox since I bought it.

If I were to say what was wrong with them, it would be without a doubt the bullsh*t tactics of noob-tubing, commando-pro, last stand.... all chosen by the players.

I suppose I should have gone further on my logic of there must something good about if it's the best selling series of all time. Your last paragraph is a point I usually make and I forgot to make it this time, CoD is a great game and that's why it's the bestselling console game of all time, but the community is what ruins it.

RGDATA!

krudler wrote: »

Completely agree, updates on day one release are ridiculous, Heavy Rains was over 200 mb if i remember correctly. Before online support a game was delayed until finished, nowadays games are released unfinished and patched for weeks for every little problem that they knew existed before release.

devil's advocate - if release date is approaching and bugs surface doesn't it make complete sense to release on time and patch after? if you're ready to go to "print" with a game, burn it to millions of disks, then a bug surfaces, there is probably an enormous cost involved in delaying the pressing to fix the bug, rebook the time with the manufacturing plants, delaying the worldwide distribution etc etc.
Not to mention the damage to sales that would be done by changing a release date you have been building to and advertising for months.

When most people will be playing the game online, and therefore have an internet connection, is it not a completely reasonable way to deal with any last minute bugs that surface?

Someone else said the biggest problem is unfinished games, yet the amount of people who have bought MW2 and BO would seem to contradict that. If the biggest problem is that the games aren't finished, then they're still selling in record numbers despite it.

krudler

RGDATA! wrote: »

devil's advocate - if release date is approaching and bugs surface doesn't it make complete sense to release on time and patch after? if you're ready to go to "print" with a game, burn it to millions of disks, then a bug surfaces, there is probably an enormous cost involved in delaying the pressing to fix the bug, rebook the time with the manufacturing plants, delaying the worldwide distribution etc etc.
Not to mention the damage to sales that would be done by changing a release date you have been building to and advertising for months.

When most people will be playing the game online, and therefore have an internet connection, is it not a completely reasonable way to deal with any last minute bugs that surface?

Someone else said the biggest problem is unfinished games, yet the amount of people who have bought MW2 and BO would seem to contradict that. If the biggest problem is that the games aren't finished, then they're still selling in record numbers despite it.

Good point, I dont mind games needing a patch if somethnig comes up down the line, its developers point blank refusal to change something that is infuriating players and ruining good games that annoys me.

take the care package thing on Blops, you used to be able to change a package with hardline pro as long as it was dropped form a chopper, now you can only do it with an actual care package, that was seen as a bigger problem than 2nd chance? many a time i got package, sam turret and changed them to get ammo and a counter spy plane, not exactly devastating killstreaks, granted i got a few gunships or chopper gunners as well but air support only adds a challenge, hearing a chopper gunner come in just makes me change to an anti air class and take it down, simples. But this thing of people getting a super powered handgun after they've been beaten in a gunfight plain and simple and wrecking a good streak is a much bigger issue, and most people would agree, a few times I've played against teams where ALL of them had 2nd chance, got more kills that way than from actually using their loadouts.

haydar

If the games annoy you so much dont play them. None of the things anyone mentioned annoy me in the least and i play blackops almost every day

sierra117x

ronkorp wrote: »

If the games annoy you so much dont play them. None of the things anyone mentioned annoy me in the least and i play blackops almost every day

your never going to have a game that everyone thinks is perfect and everyone is entitled to have their oppinion about it . honestly these downsides are swamped by the posative features of the game so no big deal everyone has a gripe and gets on with things but when developers come out with such an utter amount of crap about gamers ruining games when the game in question is one of the worst ports the playstation/pc has ever seen then you can expect people to get upset

Panda

I think this is marketing bull**** so they can drum up a bit of noise to sell another couple of thousand units of the DLC for black ops...

What do ye reckon?

baz909

sounds to me like too many gamers are moaning about the poor quality of Black Ops and this is Treyarch's non direct response to these ...

if anyone has read through the official cod forums nearly every post is asking Treyarch to fix the game....

personally I dont think any game can be 100% complete and satisfy the taste of every gamer ... but if the developers at least make some effort and give us 95% then that would be something ...

at the end of the day its the people with the power and the money that decide on most of the games in the current market.

bring back the good aul days when gameplay was number 1 before profit

everlast75

Here's a quick question - there was second chance also in MW2, why is it more of an issue in this game

Is it because it is more prevalent, as in MW2 every a-hole used commando-pro?


* Btw, I'm not advocating the use of it in either game, its a cowardly little perk, and secondly selecting that over Ninja, the other perks and especially Hacker(Pro) which are far far superior only highlights the out and out dickishness of anyone using it..

krudler

everlast75 wrote: »

Here's a quick question - there was second chance also in MW2, why is it more of an issue in this game

Is it because it is more prevalent, as in MW2 every a-hole used commando-pro?


* Btw, I'm not advocating the use of it in either game, its a cowardly little perk, and secondly selecting that over Ninja, the other perks and especially Hacker(Pro) which are far far superior only highlights the out and out dickishness of anyone using it..

it was a deathstreak in that, you had to die 4 times to use it, in Blops you just have it from the start of the match.

everlast75

Sorry - I meant Perk 3 "Last stand" allowed you to survive a normal death. You dropped to the ground also and were able to use your pistol.

You could also crawl in Last Stand - granted you died but still.

The Pro version allowed you to use your equipment too..

krudler

everlast75 wrote: »

Sorry - I meant Perk 3 "Last stand" allowed you to survive a normal death. You dropped to the ground also and were able to use your pistol.

You could also crawl in Last Stand - granted you died but still.

The Pro version allowed you to use your equipment too..

Not many people used it though, you had to lose Ninja, and since the sound is Blops is godawful to begin with and you cant hear people coming up behind you anyway Ninja isnt much of a loss so people replace it with 2nd Chance aka I'm a sh1t player who needs this pussy perk.

CORaven

everlast75 wrote: »

Here's a quick question - there was second chance also in MW2, why is it more of an issue in this game

Is it because it is more prevalent, as in MW2 every a-hole used commando-pro?


* Btw, I'm not advocating the use of it in either game, its a cowardly little perk, and secondly selecting that over Ninja, the other perks and especially Hacker(Pro) which are far far superior only highlights the out and out dickishness of anyone using it..

It was a problem and people did complain about it. I personally had more issues with Last Stand than commando as I tended to avoid CQB.

In fact, iirc, InfinityWard actually ended up nerfing it as it was too over powered. You used to be able to jump off a building, get shot and enter final stand and then survive the fall. InfinityWard patched it so that you died from falling damage.

jimbling

krudler wrote: »

Not many people used it though, you had to lose Ninja, and since the sound is Blops is godawful to begin with and you cant hear people coming up behind you anyway Ninja isnt much of a loss so people replace it with 2nd Chance aka I'm a sh1t player who needs this pussy perk.

I don't think that's it to be honest. The people that used and use Ninja probably wouldn't go for Second Chance all that much anyway. I'd say the main reason you didn't see it much in MW2 is because it was competing with Commando. Must of the "cheap" players, as ye call them, would be going for commando, not ninja.
It really shows the importance of balance when it comes to the Perks. No one perk should stand out as more powerful than the others in any one tier. No one perk should appeal to the masses more than the others in any one tier. Tis a science in itself

I know it's still infuriating, but the biggest issue for me with Second Chance was not getting the damn kill if someone else finished them off. They fixed that at least. :cool:



In saying that, I'm still hoping for the day when Second Chance will be no more. Purged from the COD series forever :pac:

Nuri Sahin

Commando was far more prevalent in the MW2 tier 3 perks, or perhaps my opinion is tad clouded due to deaths to commando :mad:

Ninja was the only thing I ever used in MW2, it was in pretty much every class set up bar 2 out of 9. One was steady aim(I think that was tier 3) and whatever the Backer/Bomb Squad equivalent was.

krudler

The sound of my own footsteps in Blops freaks me out, the sound is so badly synced you hear footsteps that you're sure arent your own,at least in MW2 it sounded like they steps were in time with your movement. the amount of times i've ran into a room and been convinced someone is behind me as i can hear my own footsteps behind me is ridiculous. so its ninja on every class except the one where im going for hacker pro.