Should we bash local concerns so much?

ttmd

In advance of the election, there is a heavy narrative of bashing 'Parish pump' politics. And much of this criticism is merited.

But should we not neglect that people have a right to local concerns? And what sort of reforms would people like to see so that these matters are dealt with appropriately by local agents?

Pompey Magnus

ttmd wrote: »

In advance of the election, I can see a heavy narrative of bashing 'Parish pump' politics. Much of this criticism is merited; I can see corruptions of the planning process among other concerns in my local area.

But should we not neglect that people have a right to local concerns? And what sort of reforms would people like to see so that these matters are dealt with appropriately by local agents?

Let them go to their County Councillors then, that is what we have them for. Elected officials in the parliament of Ireland should be concerned with the running of Ireland, not with filling some pothole outside Mrs Murphy's cottage in the arse end of nowhere.

stovelid

There is a thing called local government that could - at least - ideally be adequate for this purpose.

The notion that the Dail is the place for some yokel shit-kicker to wangle town improvements and favour is an utter embarassment.

Sykk

Yes, they are quite irrelevant at the moment with no major problems..

Since I get paid pretty much just above minimum wage despite my experience and will stay on this shít pay until things get sorted (Not even covering bills, currently just above 0 without ever borrowing..), I'd give that first priority over a pothole that needs filling at home.

Kasabian

flyton5 wrote: »

Do we really need Jackie Healey Ray holding the Government to ransom so he can get extra money for his little shiithole of a town? I think not...

As people move away from the mainstream parties and start moving their vote to independants this will inevitably become more prevailant.

People will elect independants on local issues as they can hold a coalition government to ransom.

Is it better that we have a Govenment with a majority?

ttmd

1. I would acknowledge that the Dail is no place for these sort of issues and they need to be dealt with locally. The question then should be why are these issues kicked up to TD - ie. maybe a greater proportion should be raised and spent locally etc?

2. I am probably on a hiding to nothing here, but I would prefer if people would stop using such pejorative terms like sh/t kicker, yokel, s*****e etc? People in a rural area dont necessarily have a low IQ.

prinz

ttmd wrote: »

People in a rural area dont necessarily have a low IQ.

People who go to a T.D. to stop their neighbour from cutting the grass on Sunday morning usually do.

StupidLikeAFox

Out of curiosity what should a backbencher in the dail do?

If fine gael have say, 50 members, and 25 are involved with the front bench, junior ministeries etc. Do the others just sit around?

Surely it is their jobs to raise their constituents problems at a national level? (Albeit not asking when bins are going to be collected or similar ****)

whydoibother?

Yes we should criticise "parish pump" politics. It's often the smaller stuff (relatively speaking) that is tangible e.g. a new playground, road or, dare I say it, hospital. People can see them and feel they are benefits. Because they cannot "see" bigger picture things such as good economic planning, they may vote in a way that compromises these if they vote for the person rather than the party. They will feel the pain more down line. Yes, you get that new school building now, but there's no guarnatee of a job for the educated child in the end. We can never lose sight of the bigger picture for the small stuff.

Snakeblood

ttmd wrote: »

In advance of the election, I can see a heavy narrative of bashing 'Parish pump' politics. Much of this criticism is merited.

But should we not neglect that people have a right to local concerns? And what sort of reforms would people like to see so that these matters are dealt with appropriately by local agents?

Prevent TDs from writing letters etc. to local interests. Councillors should be handling that. Teach people that the T.D. helps run the country as a whole and that the councillor represents them in affairs on a smaller than county level.

Burn the Healy Raes and Lowrys. Burn them all. Stick forks in their eyes and bury them at a crossroads so their souls wander forever.

prinz

ColHol wrote: »

Surely it is their jobs to raise their constituents problems at a national level? (Albeit not asking when bins are going to be collected or similar ****)

When local options have been exhausted/when the problem has a national application/is in the national interest.

As you mentioned the back-benchers etc. what they should be doing is communicating to their constituents what the front bench are actually doing/planning/considering, inviting proposals and ideas, researching ideas of their own for example, not trying to pull strings so Biddy and Paddy can have their gateway widened etc.

Snakeblood

ColHol wrote: »

Out of curiosity what should a backbencher in the dail do?

If fine gael have say, 50 members, and 25 are involved with the front bench, junior ministeries etc. Do the others just sit around?

Surely it is their jobs to raise their constituents problems at a national level? (Albeit not asking when bins are going to be collected or similar ****)

They should articulate their concerns to the leader of their party, as they are his constituency, as they in turn represent their constituents, and that theoretically steers the direction of the party.

dr.bollocko

Moved from After hours.

ttmd

Pompey Magnus wrote: »

Let them go to their County Councillors then, that is what we have them for. Elected officials in the parliament of Ireland should be concerned with the running of Ireland, not with filling some pothole outside Mrs Murphy's cottage in the arse end of nowhere.

From Fintan O Toole 10 point plan:

2. PUT THE PARISH PUMP BACK IN THE PARISH
Real local democracy, paid for by local taxes, and using direct democracy at every level, must be established

My argument would be that these issues are kicked up to the TDs because a high proportion of money is centrally collected and controlled. County Councillors may not be able to deal with these problems.

Laminations

We need a complete separation of national and local politics. I'd like to think we could hold community forums (town meetings) twice a month. One would involve local councillors engaging with the public and their local concerns and publicly detailing progress on local issues. The other would almost replace TD clinics and involve the TDs elected in that constiuency debating government policy and taking input from the electorate. These TD debates could be upscaled around election time to allow constituents hear party policies and see potential candidates speak and debate - we could do away with meaningless poster campaigns.

You may get issues with local councillors using their position to appease concerns on local issues in order to get a springboard into national politics e.g. filling loads of potholes in an election year and then announcing they are running for national parliament undermining the incumbent TDs who have been focused on national issues. Time delays could be introduced I suppose but I'd hope we'd just learn to separate the two out and not automatically think that someone who is good at local level would make a great TD.

kippy

We have far too many "elected" representatives in the first place. I mean what is it, 160 odd in the dail, a few more in the seanad and a few hundred again on local and city councils. Way too many for the size of our country. Someone has already pointed out that theres very little going on outside of the front bench in essence.

If we had fewer TD's it would mean that they wouldn't physically have time to deal with the real crappy local issues - these would be left to the local councilors - which is the way it should be - well its not actually. The way it should be is that people dont have to go to any politicians for getting passports in a hurry, grants pushed through, places for themselves on various schemes and courses etc but thats what politicians like to pretend that they help people to do.

Granted, there are "local" issues which are bigger than a pothole or a passport, such as hospitals, roads etc - but these should be looked at as part of a national strategy.

So, to clarify -
We have way too many politicians and an overly complex democratic system - which we dont need. People themselves have to change their expectations and tell those who will be canvassing over the next few weeks that they want this changed.

InigoMontoya

ttmd wrote: »

2. I am probably on a hiding to nothing here, but I would prefer if people would stop using such pejorative terms like sh/t kicker, yokel, s*****e etc? People in a rural area dont necessarily have a low IQ.

More to the point, it isn't just rural people who expect their TDs to sort out local or individual issues for them.

kippy

InigoMontoya wrote: »

More to the point, it isn't just rural people who expect their TDs to sort out local or individual issues for them.

Indeed, the same things happen in built up areas/cities also.

Einhard

ttmd wrote: »

In advance of the election, there is a heavy narrative of bashing 'Parish pump' politics. And much of this criticism is merited.

But should we not neglect that people have a right to local concerns? And what sort of reforms would people like to see so that these matters are dealt with appropriately by local agents?

Nobody has a problem with local concerns being an issue. However, when local issues trump national interests, then there is a seriously problem. Were local issues to be paramount, we'd have a a specialist cancer hospital in every town, and a univerity in every constituency.