Question : Converting a 3 Door Hatchback into a Van

SkRkRo

Hi all

I'm Niall I just registered here after meaning to for ages and I have a quick question.

I'm a first time driver and I'm trying to get a nice enough car to start off in. The only thing I would really is a 99 onwards 1.4 petrol Mk1 Focus.

I got thinking and its cheaper to buy up the north and if I can get away with it the VRT would only be €50 on a van compared to €480 on a car.

So have anyone here done anything like this. My friends say all you have to do is take out the rear seats and put some kind of a floor in (what kind?) and tint the back windows and re-register it as a van. Id say myself theres more than what you would think going into it like all things.

Would I be able to do it myself? Or how much would it cost if a mechanic was to do it? Also does it bring insurance costs down or up if its a van

Let me know if you can. I'm fairly eager to move on this

Thanks

Sofiztikated

Or why not just get a van in the first place?

It's not they are rare on the ground.

SkRkRo

Sofiztikated wrote: »

Or why not just get a van in the first place?

It's not they are rare on the ground.

Plenty of Mk2 Focus vans but sfa Mk1's if you know of any link a few

Atlantic Dawn

SkRkRo wrote: »

Hi all

I got thinking and its cheaper to buy up the north and if I can get away with it the VRT would only be €50 on a van compared to €480 on a car.

Thanks

VRT on car/vans is 13.5% of OMSP it's not €50 like it is with the likes of a Hiace or Transit style van.

SkRkRo

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

VRT on car/vans is 13.5% of OMSP it's not €50 like it is with the likes of a Hiace or Transit style van.

That still makes a bit of a difference. I know of a 1.6 focus that can be VRT'd for €50

Drummerboy08

SkRkRo wrote: »

That still makes a bit of a difference. I know of a 1.6 focus that can be VRT'd for €50

As mentioned, VRT on a car derived van is 13.5% of the OMSP, so along with the cost to convert, DOE and tax you'd probably pick up one handy enough already converted for less money.

It's not possible to VRT a Focus van for 50 quid, its not big enough or heavy enough to qualify for that rate. Someone is lying to you.

Sofiztikated

http://www.donedeal.ie/for-sale/commercials/1855951

Mk1.5

http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/1854242

Mk1.5 (Although he's looking stupid money for it!) EDIT: Just seen it's not a van.

http://www.donedeal.ie/for-sale/commercials/1851922

:eek:

Pre Facelifts are hard found!?

SkRkRo

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

As mentioned, VRT on a car derived van is 13.5% of the OMSP, so along with the cost to convert, DOE and tax you'd probably pick up one handy enough already converted for less money.

It's not possible to VRT a Focus van for 50 quid, its not big enough or heavy enough to qualify for that rate. Someone is lying to you.

Ok thanks for that. I have been looking for one they are rare

SkRkRo

Sofiztikated wrote: »

http://www.donedeal.ie/for-sale/commercials/1855951

Mk1.5

http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/1854242

Mk1.5 (Although he's looking stupid money for it!) EDIT: Just seen it's not a van.

http://www.donedeal.ie/for-sale/commercials/1851922

:eek:

Pre Facelifts are hard found!?

1.4 ones are. There all too high a cc for me to get insured on some nice pots though

colm_mcm

An estate should qualify for 50 vrt

SkRkRo

colm_mcm wrote: »

An estate should qualify for 50 vrt

Ah now. Estates wouldnt be my sort a car

Drummerboy08

colm_mcm wrote: »

An estate should qualify for 50 vrt

Probably not now with the new VRT legislation.

colm_mcm

Haven't a clue about new legislation..

SkRkRo

So no idea how much it costs or what involved?

Drummerboy08

colm_mcm wrote: »

Haven't a clue about new legislation..

It means all car derived vans and most jeep-derived vans are liable for 13.5% VRT. Also, the 50 quid VRT is due to be increased to 200 quid VRT from May onwards I think.

SkRkRo wrote: »

So no idea how much it costs or what involved?

13.5% of the OMSP, plus the costs of purchasing, converting, and a DOE test.

You'll have to take out the rear seats, seat belts, disable the rear windows, carpet over the rear windows, weld over the seat belt links, put in some form of floor.

Simple really!

SkRkRo

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

It means all car derived vans and most jeep-derived vans are liable for 13.5% VRT. Also, the 50 quid VRT is due to be increased to 200 quid VRT from May onwards I think.



13.5% of the OMSP, plus the costs of purchasing, converting, and a DOE test.

You'll have to take out the rear seats, seat belts, disable the rear windows, carpet over the rear windows, weld over the seat belt links, put in some form of floor.

Simple really!

In reality the last 2 are the only hard ones because you could just tint

colm_mcm

Windows need to be covered in sheet metal.

OP, there is a checklist available from revenue for conversions.

Sounds like a lot of ballsology just to get insurance on a focus.

SkRkRo

colm_mcm wrote: »

Windows need to be covered in sheet metal.

OP, there is a checklist available from revenue for conversions.

Sounds like a lot of ballsology just to get insurance on a focus.

Well they wouldnt even quote me under a 1.7 TD Cavalier if you were my age and the insurance is the way it gone you would be trying to get some money off too

dc5dave

As mentioned you have to use metal to cover the class .8 is thick enough
You need to make up a floor that has to be level with the spare wheel cover and a headboard has to be fitted as well.
It has to be all carpeted nothing has to be welded but the seatbelts do have to be remoned also you cant fit your hand between gaps so it needs to
be a tight fit.

SkRkRo

dc5dave wrote: »

As mentioned you have to use metal to cover the class .8 is thick enough
You need to make up a floor that has to be level with the spare wheel cover and a headboard has to be fitted as well.
It has to be all carpeted nothing has to be welded but the seatbelts do have to be remoned also you cant fit your hand between gaps so it needs to
be a tight fit.

Thanks thats great advice! Any expeirience doing it yourself? Would it be worth it?

dc5dave

Iv done a lot at this stage but not a focus.
Imo its only worth doing on a expensive car as you make the bigger savings its mainly jeeps I would work on although ive done cars as well.
If you get it done in a company it would set you back at least 700 euro probably more.

SkRkRo

dc5dave wrote: »

Iv done a lot at this stage but not a focus.
Imo its only worth doing on a expensive car as you make the bigger savings its mainly jeeps I would work on although ive done cars as well.
If you get it done in a company it would set you back at least 700 euro probably more.

Well I would be able to do most of the work myself like I wouldnt really give it to a company when I could do most of the work myself. Talking to my friend today and the windows don't need to be covered in sheet metal. They took out the windows in their swb landcruiser and put thick plastic in then sealed it. I do realise its an unusual thing to do on a petrol car but I just want to get your opinion like would you do it?

SkRkRo

bump

EPM

SkRkRo wrote: »

bump

Don't bump threads after half an hour

I think this will cost you more than you save.

SkRkRo

EPM wrote: »

Don't bump threads after half an hour

I think this will cost you more than you save.

VRT costs about €500 on a 1400 focus. It would be cheaper up the north and convert i think

dc5dave

Yes I would do it but only if the car I bought was expensive Ive converted r32 golfs and rs4 audi before for people and they save a good bit but on a focus I would not see the value.
As well revenue are quite strict these days make sure you know what your at if you do it yoursekf.

SkRkRo

dc5dave wrote: »

Yes I would do it but only if the car I bought was expensive Ive converted r32 golfs and rs4 audi before for people and they save a good bit but on a focus I would not see the value.
As well revenue are quite strict these days make sure you know what your at if you do it yoursekf.

Yea thanks. Is there a checklist you can send me?

dc5dave

Dont have a checklist just what I know from doing them and Im pretty certain that the rules now are that the glass needs metal behind it and then carpet.
Is it long since your friend did the landcruiser?

SkRkRo

dc5dave wrote: »

Dont have a checklist just what I know from doing them and Im pretty certain that the rules now are that the glass needs metal behind it and then carpet.
Is it long since your friend did the landcruiser?

About a year ago. They took the window out used it as a template and mastic'd around it. How much did those lads pay on vrt roughly?

SkRkRo

No wait he just stuck it to the window

Sofiztikated

SkRkRo wrote: »

Well they wouldnt even quote me under a 1.7 TD Cavalier if you were my age and the insurance is the way it gone you would be trying to get some money off too

So you're going to spend about €500 to save a few quid on insurance?

Methinks you are not thinking about this right.

Get a smaller car. Cheaper insurance. Get a few NCB under your belt. Then get the bigger cars.

Have you even tried a quote for the Focus?

SkRkRo

Sofiztikated wrote: »

So you're going to spend about €500 to save a few quid on insurance?

Methinks you are not thinking about this right.

Get a smaller car. Cheaper insurance. Get a few NCB under your belt. Then get the bigger cars.

Have you even tried a quote for the Focus?

Yes. It came in at 1700 under my own name and that was under a 3 door

GTDolanator

colm_mcm wrote: »

Windows need to be covered in sheet metal.

OP, there is a checklist available from revenue for conversions.

Sounds like a lot of ballsology just to get insurance on a focus.

no they dont,i have a corsa that i converted to a van,i had a colour coded tint made for the outside of the glass and carpeted the inside got its engineers report no hassle

101sean

If you are converting an already Irish registered car to commercial you may get away with tinting windows and removing seats/belts etc to satisfy DOE inspection.

If it's being imported and you want to pay less VRT, then you have no choice but to go the whole hog and wreck the inside of the vehicle by plating windows, welding seat belt holes etc.

With new vehicle imports, conversions are no longer allowed, they have to be factory built.

R.O.R

101sean wrote: »

With new vehicle imports, conversions are no longer allowed, they have to be factory built.

I'm not 100% sure they are not allowed, but no-one is doing it at the moment because they are not sure of the costs involved.

The story I've been given by VW is that the converted vehicles need type approval by the NSAI, and the people doing the conversion also need the approval of the NSAI. What these approvals involve and the associated costs still seem to be unknown, so until that's sorted out the only "Car Vans" coming in are leaving factory that way.

I'd guess that the same regulations would apply to used vehicles being converted, so the idea of importing something and converting it for cheap VRT wouldn't be a runner if that is the case.

Skuxx

Just a quick question re insurance lads, I'm driving a converted golf 1.9tdi and when I was getting my insurance the woman asked for the reg which I gave her and she said so thats a 1.9 tdi golf comfortline, she had all the details. She never mentioned that it was a van though and I never thought to mention it either as I thought she had all the details. It was full converted before I got it and its a van on the log book and commercially taxed so surely they are fully aware its a van??

mgmayo

You also need to check on taxing as commercial. The current form requires declaration as use for business only and that you are registered as a business tax payer. This may not apply to previously comm taxed vehicles but I think it will for first timers.
I think this is thanks to some steam generated last year by minister gormley reminding tax offices of the conditions of comm tax.
I converted a jeep last year which I imported, due to weight it was vrt50.
It was inspected by rev guy who was most interested in floor and window covers. I had fitted galv sheet to the top half of the door frame by revitting to the frame. Carpet was not looked for. The floor was piece of alum sheet to eliminate seat dip. It was supported by a box section frame which was bolted in using the seat belt bolts.
Also remember that the doe tester is the policeman down the road, should you dislodge any of the conversion!!!!
Since then things have changed and you have to bring to NCT within 24hr of bringing into the country. I think you then have 7days to pay vrt to revenue based on the verification of the model etc by the nct.
It's not getting easier!!

slimjimmc

GTDolanator wrote: »

no they dont,i have a corsa that i converted to a van,i had a colour coded tint made for the outside of the glass and carpeted the inside got its engineers report no hassle

Tinting the glass is no longer allowed.

Here's the official word from Revenue http://www.revenue.ie/en/about/foi/s16/vehicle-registration-tax/vrt-manual-section-1.pdf

Jump to section entitled "1.2.4 Application of Classification Rules to Converted /Modified Vehicles
(See S.I. 318/92 CVO Bulletin 4/2006 Appendix 4)"

A vehicle is deemed to have been legally modified from a Category A vehicle to a lower category where the following prescribed conditions are fulfilled (S.I. 318/92 Reg 5).

all side windows to the rear of the driver's seat must be closed off and sealed by being completely covered with a panel made of rigid metal or other strong, opaque, rigid material and fixed permanently in place;

The use of dark or tinted glass, paint etc. does not satisfy this requirement. Consequently, the window glass must be removed.

all seats to the rear of the driver's seat, and all fixtures and fittings, etc. which are provided for the purpose of fitting such seats, must be permanently removed and/or sealed off, as appropriate;

all footwells and seatwells to the rear of the driver's seat must be covered with a floor constructed of rigid metal and fixed permanently to the floor of the vehicle so as to render them level, or generally level, with the remainder of the floor to the rear of the driver's seat;

side-access to the underfloor area must also be prohibited by means of blanking panels of a similar material.

Also note that SI 318/1992 defines "fixed permanently" as

( c ) in paragraphs (a) and (b) of this Regulation "fixed permanently" means secured by means of continuous seam welding, adhesive bonding, spot welding or brazing and, in the case of spot welding, the welds shall be sufficiently close to each other to ensure a satisfactory seal, being normally not more than 40 millimetres apart, and, in the case of adhesive bonding, the bonding agent shall be approved by the Commissioners.

GTDolanator

slimjimmc wrote: »

Tinting the glass is no longer allowed.

Here's the official word from Revenue http://www.revenue.ie/en/about/foi/s16/vehicle-registration-tax/vrt-manual-section-1.pdf

Jump to section entitled "1.2.4 Application of Classification Rules to Converted /Modified Vehicles
(See S.I. 318/92 CVO Bulletin 4/2006 Appendix 4)"




Also note that SI 318/1992 defines "fixed permanently" as

just goes to show that there is still dodgey garages out their mine was done bout 17 months ago

Jomcc

I've spent the morning being passed from Revenue to NCTS and back to Revenue in trying to figure out this question.........I've also mastered the art of using the advance search function but to no avail.

Trying to find out if it is possible to import an estate car and convert it, or have some company convert it into a cemmercial vehicle for me.

It appears that there was a change in January this year, but I cannot find out if this is definitely true or not.
My situation is that I have an offer on my current vehicle and don't want to sell it if it's not possible to convert the estate car I'l interested in.

Thanks.

R.O.R

Jomcc wrote: »

I've spent the morning being passed from Revenue to NCTS and back to Revenue in trying to figure out this question.........I've also mastered the art of using the advance search function but to no avail.

Trying to find out if it is possible to import an estate car and convert it, or have some company convert it into a cemmercial vehicle for me.

It appears that there was a change in January this year, but I cannot find out if this is definitely true or not.
My situation is that I have an offer on my current vehicle and don't want to sell it if it's not possible to convert the estate car I'l interested in.

Thanks.

See if you can speak to the right person in NVD - they did a lot of conversions for manufacturer's and will probably know the official story.

Personally, I don't think it's possible any longer - which adds to the rarity value of the Passat Estate Commercial we have on the road.

Jomcc

Thanks R.O.R.