ofch burner issue

indie armada

the folks are having problems with their heating. it suddenly stopped working about a week ago, and when my father opened the access panel on the top of the burner, which is a free standing exterior unit, he found the person who installed it had wired two flexs to 13amp 3 pin plugs and fitted a twin socket with a surface back box to the supply from the spur/timer on the inside of the house. the two cables are plugged into this socket feeding the burner. he found the cables and the twin socket dmaged from heat as the socket was just sitting on the top of the inside of the burner. he has since replaced the socket and replaced some of the damaged cable as a temp fix, but the heating will not stay on for more then a few mins. im in dublin and they are in sligo, and there is a chance i might have to drive down this weekend, can anyone give me an idea why it was wired like this and i plan to replace the cabling with hr flex and propper junction boxes, if this doesnt fix the problem what are my options.

Billy Bunting

Was the heat damaged socket enough to cause it to stop or could that be a red herring and something else is causing the initial problem ?

indie armada

initially the damaged socket was causing the mcb to trip, so the heat damage to the cable/socket was the cause of that, and the replcacement of them fixed the tripping problem afaik. now once the heating is switched on its cutting out after a few mins, like the way an internal stat kicks in when the pump doesnt kick in or there is low pressure.
the folks are finding it difficult to get someone local to look at it as there out in the sticks and with my very basic knowledge im not sure ill be able to sort it, but ill have a look at the electrical end of it and replace all of the damaged cable and terminate them in a propper jb.

Billy Bunting

My initial reaction would be to re-look at the supply to the pump.

Is the burner locking out or cutting out ?? (is the reset light on?)

Normally the burner will follow a lighting sequence that lasts approx 45sec, any burner problem and it will usually cut out within that period.
If the burner runs but the hot water doesn't get away because the pump isn't running then the thermostat will be satisfied and cut out.

meercat

agree there
check power to pump
and check if pump actually circulating
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056105486

Buford T Justice

Its likely, as suggested above that the pump isn't circulating. Could be just to the fact that it isn't wired after the wiring issues you've had

When the boiler turns off, does it turn itelf on again, or does the high limit stat need to be reset?

I've been to quite a few boilers with Airlocks and if the pump doesn't circulate the water the High limit stat always trips out, which would require manual resetting every time.

indie armada

i reckon the temp fix that the oul lad did hasnt fully fixed the electrical end of things and the pump is not opperating. what i cant understand is why the installer has two flexs wired into the same source, in this case a twin socket. if one of these flexs is to the pump, how does it achieve run on after the apt has been switched off, or do these units not require run on.
i think its enevitable that ill have to go down to sligo fri nite, prob post up the details of what i find when i get there to see if anyone can narrow down the cause. thanks for the replys so far.

Billy Bunting

Some oil boiler models do require pump overrun some (most) don't, that requirment would normally be within the instalation instructions.

Buford T Justice

Pump and boiler are generally on the same power source.

At a short guess, the double socket you have is powered by the timeclock which could explain the two flex cables.

Could have picked up you're description wrong tho.

indie armada

Fingers McGee wrote: »

Pump and boiler are generally on the same power source.

At a short guess, the double socket you have is powered by the timeclock which could explain the two flex cables.

Could have picked up you're description wrong tho.

according to the oul lad, there is a t&e from the clock feeding a twin socket, the two flexes then have 13amp p/tops plugged into this socket.
i just thought that all burners had overrun on the pumps.

Buford T Justice

indie armada wrote: »

according to the oul lad, there is a t&e from the clock feeding a twin socket, the two flexes then have 13amp p/tops plugged into this socket.
i just thought that all burners had overrun on the pumps.

No, they don't.

Most likely there's an issue with the plugtop feeding the circulating pump from the double socket. That's my guess.

DoneDL

13amp should be downrated to 5 amp

creaghadoos

get him to run an extension lead to these 2 plugs and plug them in there to see if it works then. if it works, he can take it that the problem is electrical, if it doesn't work he has another underlying problem.

this would only be a test and not suitable as a fix

Buford T Justice

Is its far out of the town? If you're stuck this weekend, PM me.

indie armada

didnt go down in the end, they rang a guy last monday and on friday he still hadnt arrived, a friend called out to the house and he got it going for them and as he was leaving the guy they rang on monday turned up.
as it turns out it only worked for a while and is now tripping at the board again. so fingers....ye have a pm

indie armada

just want to thank fingers for sortin this and for saving me from what would have been a wasted trip to sligo as i probably would have been out of my depth. fair plan man and i owe ye a pint.:D

nophd08

indie armada wrote: »

just want to thank fingers for sortin this and for saving me from what would have been a wasted trip to sligo as i probably would have been out of my depth. fair plan man and i owe ye a pint.:D

What was the diagnosis? Its always good to hear back from a problem being sorted. Fair play to Fingers.

Buford T Justice

Happy to help indie.

The job that was done originally by the sparks was a double indoor socket and backbox from the timeclock, and the boiler and pump plugged into it. The socket was left on top of the boiler unit itself beside the flue. The heat melted the sockets & cable, causing the electrical falut, and also destroyed the stat on the boiler.

Replaced the stat, and re-wired the pump and boiler with the cables running around the side of the boiler instead of the top.