Rape row sparks excommunications

Delirium

The mother of a 9 year old Brazilian girl, and the doctors who performed on the girl after she got pregnant after being raped by her step-father are to be excommunicated from the Catholic church.

The doctors said that the girl was too small to carry the twins she was pregnant with to term.

No suprise that the step-father isn't to be excommunicated though. :mad:

A Brazilian archbishop says all those who helped a child rape victim secure an abortion are to be excommunicated from the Catholic Church.

The girl, aged nine, who lives in the north-eastern state of Pernambuco, became pregnant with twins.

It is alleged that she had been sexually assaulted over a number of years by her stepfather.

The excommunication applies to the child's mother and the doctors involved in the procedure.

The pregnancy was terminated on Wednesday.

Abortion is only permitted in Brazil in cases of rape and where the mother's life is at risk and doctors say the girl's case met both these conditions.

Police believe that the girl at the centre of the case had been sexually abused by her step-father since she was six years old.

The fact that she was pregnant with twins was only discovered after she was taken to hospital in Pernambuco complaining of stomach pains.

Her stepfather was arrested last week, allegedly as he tried to escape to another region of the country.

He is also suspected of abusing the girl's physically handicapped older sister who is now 14.

The Catholic Church tried to intervene to prevent the abortion going ahead but the procedure was carried out on Wednesday.

Now a Church spokesman says all those involved, including the child's mother and the doctors, are to be excommunicated.

The Archbishop of Olinda and Recife, Jose Cardoso Sobrinho, told Brazil's TV Globo that the law of God was above any human law.

He said the excommunication would not apply to the child because of her age, but would affect all those who ensured the abortion was carried out.

However, doctors at the hospital said they had to take account of the welfare of the girl, and that she was so small that her uterus did not have the ability to contain one child let alone two.

While the action of the Church in opposing an abortion for a young rape victim is not unprecedented, it has attracted criticism from women's rights groups in Brazil.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7926694.stm

panda100

The step father seems like he has all the qualities to make a great priest.

Also, I think this case happened a good few years ago did it not?

Galvasean

Typical shoddy RCC logic TBH.

sensibleken

good. the more decent people they throw out the less they can use the 'ah not everyone in the church is bad' excuse

MrPudding

I love stories like this. Makes me angry to my core, but this stuff does that abomination of an organisation more harm than Richard Dawkins, Christoper or even Wicknight can do.

Shame on them.

MrP

robindch

koth wrote: »

the step-father isn't to be excommunicated though

Well, the step-father is capable of inseminating more women, while the daughter has proved herself disloyal to the church. In terms of religious propagation and the authority of the church, I'm afraid they're amongst the very few things that count.

Kintarō Hattori

Excommunicated....... what's the problem?


In all seriousness though it is quite incredible just how arrogant and out of touch with the modern world the church really is.

Dr. Baltar

Evil men with no remorse.

aceygray

I remember this case from a few years back. There was also a more recent case in the US where a doctor was excommunicated for performing an abortion to save a woman's life. The hospital where it was performed also lost it's affiliation with the church:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/dec/22/us-catholic-bishop-hospital-abortion

That's odd, I thought I remembered the pope saying that while the woman could choose to die for the child's sake it wasn't a requirement and an abortion to save her life was ok

garancafan

Is there a list of excommunicants? How can I ensure that I'm on it?

Canis Lupus

Taken from wiki: "Regarding his statement that excommunication had been incurred, Sobrinho stated:[2]

"The law of God is higher than any human laws. When a human law -- that is, a law enacted by human legislators -- is against the law of God, that law has no value."

Yikes.

krudler

Canis Lupus wrote: »

Taken from wiki: "Regarding his statement that excommunication had been incurred, Sobrinho stated:[2]

"The law of God is higher than any human laws. When a human law -- that is, a law enacted by human legislators -- is against the law of God, that law has no value."

Yikes.

Also written by humans.

Ah the church, child raping men are ok, said impregnated children and the people trying to help them are against god. so god supports paedos, you heard it here first folks.

fontanalis

This is an old case. Did they excommunicate the rapist?

MrPudding

fontanalis wrote: »

This is an old case. Did they excommunicate the rapist?

Apparently not. Why would they though? He only raped a nine year old, which does not warrant ex-communication. It's not like he sullied the name of the church or anything serious like that.

MrP

Bottle_of_Smoke

bluewolf wrote: »

That's odd, I thought I remembered the pope saying that while the woman could choose to die for the child's sake it wasn't a requirement and an abortion to save her life was ok

99% sure that's not the vaticans position. Though it is the position of the vast vast vast majority of people who are pro-life.

Its bizarre. They would choose 2 deaths instead of 1 because in the latter case it is a human causing the death. Morality eh?

robindch

bluewolf wrote: »

I thought I remembered the pope saying that while the woman could choose to die for the child's sake it wasn't a requirement and an abortion to save her life was ok

Nope, quite the opposite. Abortion is verboten in all circumstances and if that means that a woman and a child will die instead of just the child, then then the Vatican simply doesn't care.

One can sense that this was a rule dreamed up by men.

Waking-Dreams

The gf has been reading up on the history of suicide through the ages. Seems the church banned it because they had a lot of slaves at the time and so of course needed there to be a constant influx of new flesh. Can’t have all those slaves topping themselves now!

The same reasoning was behind their stance on contraception/abortion too. The more bodies available to carry out the church’s edicts the better.

I know it has now become all about morality and the rights of unborn 'child' but interesting to know where it stemmed from and more importantly, why.

Spread

garancafan wrote: »

Is there a list of excommunicants? How can I ensure that I'm on it?

A cold shower morning and night AND keep your hands over the bedclothes

Count Duckula

Pathetic.

Stuff likes this makes my blood boil, but then I start to think that - actually - the more doctors, the more parents, the more educated, decent people they excommunicate, the better for the world as a whole.

My grandmother was excommunicated from her church in Lancashire when she sent my mother to a non-Catholic school. The priest wouldn't have it that the non-Catholic school was both a better school and much closer, and instead insisted that my mother be forced to change school (having already settled in at her new school, so being forced to uproot) or her soul would be damned to hell. They were both, of course, excommunicated.

Upshot was, my mother grew up to be a decent, rational, atheist woman, and didn't have to suffer through childhood indoctrination set up with the sole aim of terrifying children into obeying and making them feel guilt and shame about their own bodies.

A good thing, then.

gbee

garancafan wrote: »

Is there a list of excommunicants? How can I ensure that I'm on it?

It makes no difference, you're still a Catholic, excommunication, simply means you cannot take part in the sacraments.

Zombrex

People of the world, stop being stupid please. That is all.

branie

Surely the life of the unborn is just as important

Zombrex

branie wrote: »

Surely the life of the unborn is just as important

As important as what exactly?

Mark Hamill

branie wrote: »

Surely the life of the unborn is just as important

How about you tell that to the next nine year old girl, raped and pregnant, as she slowly dies from her inability to support the life growing in her tiny, not yet ready, uterus.

AhSureTisGrand

branie wrote: »

Surely the life of the unborn is just as important

Troll?

MrPudding

AhSureTisGrand wrote: »

Troll?

Scarily, probably not.

MrP

Galvasean

MrPudding wrote: »

Scarily, probably not.

MrP

Hard to tell if it is satire or not when you get threads like this:
http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=69142515#post69142515

MrPudding

Galvasean wrote: »

Hard to tell if it is satire or not when you get threads like this:
http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=69142515#post69142515

Poe's law anyone? There are a couple of poster on the other forum that I hope are taking the pi$$, it I fear they aren't.

MrP

eoin5

Holy crap!? if there ever was a clearer case of justified abortion its got to be tough to find.

sensibleken

eoin5 wrote: »

Holy crap!? if there ever was a clearer case of justified abortion its got to be tough to find.

Hmm. what if someone was gestating the anti-christ? Your move benedict!

mcmoustache

sensibleken wrote: »

Hmm. what if someone was gestating the anti-christ? Your move benedict!

Well that's obvious isn't it. You just kill the mother in that case.

sensibleken

mcmoustache wrote: »

Well that's obvious isn't it. You just kill the mother in that case.

Would be a good idea for a movie. An abortion doctor with a religous mandate has to hunt down the mother of the antichrist and perform a late term abortion by killing 2 people in order to prevent the events in revelations.

we could call it 'terminator 2: judgement day'

eoin5

sensibleken wrote: »

Would be a good idea for a movie. An abortion doctor with a religous mandate has to hunt down the mother of the antichrist and perform a late term abortion by killing 2 people in order to prevent the events in revelations.

we could call it 'terminator 2: judgement day'

I just pictured sarah connor being chased by the medic from team fortress 2 for some reason.

robindch

robindch wrote: »

Nope, quite the opposite. Abortion is verboten in all circumstances and if that means that a woman and a child will die instead of just the child, then then the Vatican simply doesn't care.

One can sense that this was a rule dreamed up by men.

I was positive there was a case where a woman decided to die in pregnancy/childbirth to save her baby and he said while it was commendable it wasn't a requirement. This is going to drive me mad now!

sensibleken

bluewolf wrote: »

I was positive there was a case where a woman decided to die in pregnancy/childbirth to save her baby and he said while it was commendable it wasn't a requirement. This is going to drive me mad now!

In fairness its not the maddest thing in catholicism

sensibleken

sensibleken wrote: »

In fairness its not the maddest thing in catholicism

Nah it's not a major issue I'm just curious to find out

MissFlitworth

bluewolf wrote: »

Nah it's not a major issue I'm just curious to find out

I think that might be this lady . Horrible story

gbee

As a devout boy Catholic, say 45 years ago, I could never understand how some hated us, and Catholicism.

Jesus, I wish you had never allowed the paedophile Roman western empire to deceive people that you 'converted' them to your church, when in fact you had nothing to do with it.

Yer slipped up badly there, JC.

CiaranMT

gbee wrote: »

As a devout boy Catholic, say 45 years ago, I could never understand how some hated us, and Catholicism.

Jesus, I wish you had never allowed the paedophile Roman western empire to deceive people that you 'converted' them to your church, when in fact you had nothing to do with it.

Yer slipped up badly there, JC.

What? :pac: