Is a FG-FF Coalition Possible?

RetroBate

FG will probably end up with the largest number of seats.
Everyone expects them to do a deal with Labour but there isn't any pre-election agreement with them so it's still possible if not probable that FG could do a deal with FF.

The numbers would have to give them a working majority but if SF can do deal with the DUP and the PDs with a Haughey led FF why not Enda as Taoseach with Micheál as Tanisté?

Politics is the art of the possible.

ilovesleep

I will not give anyone a vote if they jump into bed with FF.

AnonymousPrime

Martin has said he is in favor of it.

I think I would rather a government united on the center right with a strong left opposition than the mish mash alternative

gandalf

I do not see FG going into Government with FF. Fianna Fail are too tainted as is there "new" leader who was at the helm with the other failures for two terms in Government.

PeterIanStaker

While I'd love to see the end of Civil War politics, this won't happen because they're both far too entrenched. Mind you I could be wrong . . . .

RetroBate

gandalf wrote: »

I do not see FG going into Government with FF. Fianna Fail are too tainted as is there "new" leader who was at the helm with the other failures for two terms in Government.

Haughey was 'tainted' by the arms trial but that didn't stop the PDs.

Traditionally the argument against this type of coalition was that "it would be too strong a government" but it's possible Labour and FF could be neck and neck for 2nd place after the votes are counted.

In such a situation the old argument could be out the window.

FG could justify it "in the national interest" and it would get support amoung the people who are in favour of 'a government of national unity'.

Liam Byrne

Martin is in no position to dictate who might accept his tainted party.

I would suspect that this is more of a tactic to stop potential FG voters from voting for them, and if there was a grain of truth in it, it would certainly work that way for my vote....it'd be going directly to Labour & Independents only.

unit 1

ilovesleep wrote: »

I will not give anyone a vote if they jump into bed with FF.

You will have voted for them "before" they get into bed, and the answer unfortunately is almost certainly yes, if it suits FG.
EK is in a good position, and if MM (stay in forign affairs) could ditch Leniahan and Coughlan, and with Willie as ceann comhairle:D, this could be an opportunity to end civil war politics, pitched as being in the national interest and recovering our country from the imf.
He could do it, and probably should do it, if only to put a nail in FFs rotten heart, but it's all in the numbers. An overall majority is still a remote possibility and would surely be the best choice for the nation at the moment.

P. Breathnach

It's not a runner in the foreseeable future: even those politicians who are not especially bright are cute hoors when it comes to electioneering, and they know that making any sort of deal with FF is electoral suicide.

gandalf

Actually at the rate that the sitting FF TD's are bailing out their might not be any of them to merge with anyway.

Mary Coughlan is rumoured to be the next bailer!

Magi11

NEVER, NEVER, NEVER!

irishash

I think the theory that FG and FF not getting together to run the country because of treaty/civil war differences are way off the mark. True, many years ago (right up to the mid eighties) this was the main reason they never linked up (that and the fact that FF were always the largest party and never really need a party the size of FG to support them). But in this modern age, there are so many better reasons not to get into bed with them.

I cannot see FG even entertaining the idea, but it would be a brave political party to rule out any partnership combinations. If it came down to it, the most likely situation is a minority FG government with FF support. But even then FG would have to keep them sweet (implementing most of the 4 year plan for example). I would love for every party to come out and say whatever happens, no deal with FF (but it ain't going to happen).

FG are playing a good game at the moment, but maybe a little too safe. The pressure is going to ramp up pretty quick in the next few weeks and teams in the lead always seem to ship a few goals.

People in this country want a change. A complete change. Not FF in power in any way, or even with a small bit of control over a minority government. The will of the people will hopefully shine through this time, even taking into account local politics.

Het-Field

Honestly, I believe it would be a good thing for democracy if Fianna Fail and Fine Gael were to team up. In fact, it would be even better if FF/FG were to merge, and ensure the collapse of a faux debate between two center-right parties, with Christian Democratic principles, which are prone to venturing into the realms of populism when it suits. The only difference between the organisations stem from the Civil War. However, the two parties have broadly been in agreement when it has come to issues of national significance. In fact, both are in agreement regarding the EU/IMF deal, and the concept of a four year economic plan. The only difference with regard to the same is semantical, and the fine detail. The same applies to Irish entry to the European Union (and all amendments to the powers that we have vested in the EU ever since), social issues like divorce, and center-right economics, with a general derisory attitude towards Labour's economic plans. Both parties took respective stances towards extremist nationalism, however, they ultimately met in the middle, and both parties contributed to a resolution to the question of Northern Ireland.

Today, Gerry Adams has offered The Labour Party a chance to join together in a broadly left alliance. I rarely agree with Baron Adams. In spite of this, I would welcome the co-operation of Sinn Fein and the Labour Party. If done in tandem with what I have proposed above, it would give the Irish electorate an opportunity to vote based on ideology, as opposed to parochialism.

johngalway

RetroBate wrote: »

so it's still possible if not probable that FG could do a deal with FF.

Hi!,

First of all, welcome to Ireland, you must be new here

The above is purely spin from the FF press orifice.

FF are attempting to damage FG by associating FG with FF policies, in essence saying that FG are the same as FF.

They're not.

FF can say this as they know, as do most sensible people that FG will not take up any offer from a toxic Fianna Failure.

It's not going to happen. It's just spin from a FF who's vote is being taken from them on all sides, and that was achieved entirely from FF's own actions in wrecking this country.

Magi11

johngalway wrote: »

Hi!,

First of all, welcome to Ireland, you must be new here

The above is purely spin from the FF press orifice.

FF are attempting to damage FG by associating FG with FF policies, in essence saying that FG are the same as FF.

They're not.

FF can say this as they know, as do most sensible people that FG will not take up any offer from a toxic Fianna Failure.

It's not going to happen. It's just spin from a FF who's vote is being taken from them on all sides, and that was achieved entirely from FF's own actions in wrecking this country.

Bang on. The parties disagree on the Bail Out, the banks, health and the public service. The fact that they are 2 centre right parties is irrelevant. It's for FF spinners and political journalists but has no chance of happening

RetroBate

Magi11 wrote: »

Bang on. The parties disagree on the Bail Out, the banks, health and the public service. The fact that they are 2 centre right parties is irrelevant. It's for FF spinners and political journalists but has no chance of happening

The bail out is water under the bridge, history, so isn't an impediment.

They both agree that it's essential to get the banking sector lending to small bussineses again. They won't fall out over how to achieve this.

In a FG-FF coalition FF will be delighted to see FG take the health portfolio.

Both parties support the Croke Park agreement on public sector pay and reform.

Two centre right parties share power in Britain. Sorry I don't get how it's irrelevant.

The present economic and political situation is unprecedented so why are people dismissing this scenario just because it's unprecedented.

It probably won't happen.

No chance of happening? I'm not so sure.

johngalway

RetroBate wrote: »

Two centre right parties share power in Britain. Sorry I don't get how it's irrelevant.

The present economic and political situation is unprecedented so why are people dismissing this scenario just because it's unprecedented.

It probably won't happen.

No chance of happening? I'm not so sure.

Absolutely. No. Chance.

OK

Neither of the two British parties were in power before their last election, neither of those two parties (in the last 10 years anyway) destroyed their country. That is how it's irrelevant. You're trying, sorry, FF are trying to compare apples to horsesh1t.

Plain and simple this is a cheap stunt by FF to scare the electorate, look at FG they're policies are the same as ours and we'll be back in thanks to them!

I think not.

There are many reasons why the scenario is being dismissed. One is Fianna Failure can't be trusted. Another is Fianna Failure share the largest portion of the blame for the state of this country (along with the PD's, certain Independents and the Green Party).

Stir it all ya like, it's fantasy land nonsense.

Capt'n Midnight

Labour, the PD's and the Greens have all suffered from being in government with FF at some stage.

If there was an FF / FG coalition then no one would be surprised if FF knifed them in the back at some stage. And no one likes being knifed in the back.

Also all the spin has come from FF it's just FUD.


yer man in FF said that if there is an FG government and if the policies are the same as FF ones then FF may vote with the government.

so FF are giving NOTHING , and yet it's being reported as if there was a deal in place :rolleyes:

RetroBate

johngalway wrote: »

Stir it all ya like, it's fantasy land nonsense.

No, it's a hypotetical scenario.

So FF are the political equivalent of war criminals in your book. If you read history you will find the Americans were happy to do deals with war criminals after WWII when they were intelligence and scientific assets.

To expand on my post-election hypotisis.

FG end up say ten seats short of an overall majority and negotiations with Labour commence. FG emboldened by their electoral success play hardball and antagonise Labour. FG up the stakes by putting out feelers to FF.

If Labour have a disappointing election they may see the attraction of avoiding the responsibilities of Government where they are certain to become unpopular while suffering the sniping of the far-left inside and outside the Dáil.

The ravings of a political lunatic or the Machivellian machinations of a FF spin doctor?

Neither, just a possibility that people are too ready to dismiss.

johngalway

RetroBate wrote: »

No, it's a hypotetical scenario.

Well I do understand that. But, you did ask if it's possible, my answer is it's not, and for good reasons.

RetroBate wrote: »

So FF are the political equivalent of war criminals in your book. If you read history you will find the Americans were happy to do deals with war criminals after WWII when they were intelligence and scientific assets.

Ah, no, you said that, not I

RetroBate wrote: »

To expand on my post-election hypotisis.

FG end up say ten seats short of an overall majority and negotiations with Labour commence. FG emboldened by their electoral success play hardball and antagonise Labour. FG up the stakes by putting out feelers to FF.

If Labour have a disappointing election they may see the attraction of avoiding the responsibilities of Government where they are certain to become unpopular while suffering the sniping of the far-left inside and outside the Dáil.

The ravings of a political lunatic or the Machivellian machinations of a FF spin doctor?

Neither, just a possibility that people are too ready to dismiss.

I'm at a loss for an example to compare the situation with. It is FF spin, and nothing more. Goodnight

Mr.Micro

FG would do business with FF at its peril. FG Voters would not accept it no way so FG needs to put that to bed soon.

Magi11

RetroBate wrote: »

The bail out is water under the bridge, history, so isn't an impediment.

They both agree that it's essential to get the banking sector lending to small bussineses again. They won't fall out over how to achieve this.

In a FG-FF coalition FF will be delighted to see FG take the health portfolio.

Both parties support the Croke Park agreement on public sector pay and reform.

Two centre right parties share power in Britain. Sorry I don't get how it's irrelevant.

The present economic and political situation is unprecedented so why are people dismissing this scenario just because it's unprecedented.

It probably won't happen.

No chance of happening? I'm not so sure.

The bail out may be water under the bridge but the decision to renegotiate the terms is not. FF want us to keep taking it up the backside. Every other party does not.
They might both agree on getting the banks lending but FF seem to have no plan to do this.
I won't even start on the differences in health, suffice to say that FF let Harney destroy it and FG have a doctor with ideas waiting to implement them.
FF have no more chance of being in the next government than Labour did in the UK. and for the same reason. Payback.