Crematorium engineers testimony

jonniebgood1

I just found these first hand testimonies that I thought interesting in relation to the designers and manufacturers of the furnaces to burn bodies in Nazi concentration camps.

Kurt Prufer, senior engineer of Topf and Sohne, testifying in Erfurt, Germany, March 5, 1946.
Quoted from the interrogation transcripts by Prof. Gerald Fleming from the University of Surrey, in an NYT article, July 18 1993:

Q. Who apart from you participated in the construction of the furnaces?

A. From 1941-2, I constructed the furnaces. The technical drawings were done by Mr. Keller. The ventilation systems of the "Kremas" [crematoriums] were constructed by senior engineer Karl Schultze.

Q. How often and with what aim did you visit Auschwitz?

A. Five times. The first time at the beginning of 1943, to receive orders of the SS Command where the Kremas were to be built. The second time in spring 1943 to inspect the building site. The third time was in autumn 1943 to inspect a fault in the construction of a Krema chimney. The forth time at the beginning of 1944, to inspect the repaired chimney. the fifth time in September-October 1944, when I visited Auschwitz with the intended relocation [from Auschwitz] of the crematoriums, since the front was getting nearer. The crematoriums were not relocated, because there were not enough workers.

Q. Were you the sole Topf engineer in Auschwitz in spring 1943?

A. No, [senior engineer Karl] Schultze was with me in Auschwitz at the time. I saw personally about 60 corpses of women and men of different ages, which were being prepared for incineration. That was at 10 in the morning. I witnessed the incineration of six corpses and came to the conclusion that the furnaces were working well.

Q. Did you see a gas chamber next to the crematoriums?

A. Yes, I did see one next to the crematorium. Between the gas chamber and the crematorium there was a connecting structure.

Q. Did you know that in the gas chamber and in the crematoriums there took place the liquidation of innocent human beings?

A. I have known since spring 1943 that innocent human beings were being liquidated in Auschwitz gas chambers and that their corpses were subsequently incinerated in the crematoriums.

Q. Who is the designer of the ventilation systems for the gas chambers?

A. Schultze was the designer of the ventilation systems in the gas chambers; and he installed them.

Q. Why was the brick lining of the muffles so quickly damaged?

A. The bricks were damaged after six months because the strain on the furnaces was colossal.

Testimony of Engineer Karl Schultze.
Quoted from the interrogation transcripts by Prof. Gerald Fleming from the University of Surrey, in an NYT article, July 18 1993:

Q. What was your personal part in these "Krema" building operation and what was Prufer's part?

A. Prufer was an expert. he designed and constructed these crematoriums and led the building operations in the concentration camps. I was responsible for the ventilation systems and for its air injection into the muffles. In specific instances, I led the installation operations personally. I personally led the installation work in Auschwitz crematoriums and gas chambers. For this purpose, I traveled to Auschwitz three times in 1943.
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I did not know that in the crematoriums in Auschwitz-Birkenau innocent human beings were being liquidated. I thought criminals were being killed there who had partly been sentenced to death because of the crimes they had committed against the German army in Poland and other occupied territories. I am a German and supported and am supporting the Government in Germany and the laws of our Government. Whoever opposes our laws is an enemy of the State, because our laws establish him a such. I did not act on personal initiative but as directed by Ludwig Topf. I was afraid of losing my position and of possible arrest.

Q. Your views do not really differ from the views of a Nazi.

A. No, I was not a member of the NSDAP [National Socialist German Workers Party]. I only respected and acted according to the laws of my country.

Another engineer Fritz samder questioned about his request for patent on a continuous conveyor system for burning bodies

Engineer Fritz Sander testifying on March 7 1946.
Quoted from the interrogation transcripts by Prof. Gerald Fleming from the University of Surrey, in an NYT article, July 18 1993:

I decided to design and build a crematorium with a higher capacity. I completed this project of a new crematorium in November 1942--a crematorium for mass incineration, and I submitted this project to a State Patent Commission in Berlin.

This "Krema" was to be built on the conveyor belt principle. That is to say, the corpses must be brought to the incineration furnaces without interruption. When the corpses are pushed into the furnaces, they fall onto a grate, and then slide into the furnace and are incinerated. The corpses serve at the same time as fuel for heating of the furnaces. This patent could not yet be approved by the Main Patent Office in Berlin, because of its classification (as a state secret).

Q. Although you knew about the mass liquidation of innocent human beings in crematoriums, you devoted yourself to designing and creating higher capacity incineration furnaces for crematoriums - and on your own initiative.

A. I was a German engineer and key member of the Topf works and I saw it as my duty to apply my specialist knowledge in this way to help Germany win the war, just as an aircraft construction engineer builds airplanes in wartime, which are also connected with the destruction of human beings.

The interest in these comes from the recently re-opened factory where the concentration camp furnaces were manufactured. It is now a museum.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,742013,00.html

marcsignal

That's a great find. I'd love to see more info about this, as it addresses the issue of ventilation. That would have been a huge technical problem to overcome in terms of the speed, and safety, of the operation.
I'd be interested to know how they did it.

edit: where did you find the interview quoted, are they on the site link you posed somewhere ?

jonniebgood1

marcsignal wrote: »

edit: where did you find the interview quoted, are they on the site link you posed somewhere ?

They are posted in what seems to be a set collection, i.e. theres not any more that I have found yet. I will search more and post if I find more extensive interview transcripts. The same text is posted in several places- I got them from http://fcit.usf.edu/HOLOCAUST/RESOURCE/DOCUMENT/DOCTEST1.HTM
I suppose it may seem obvious to some but the whole thought process and the development of a system that would have involved a continuous conveyor system is crazy to try and comprehend. Particularly when compared to the 'matter of fact' manner of these interviewees.

marcsignal

thanks for that jonniebgood1. i'm most interested in the ventilation system they would have had to have for the chambers. I worked with that gas for years back in the 90s doing marine, aircraft, and industrial fumigation. The ventilation part was an extremly slow and the most dangerous part of the whole process.

Looking at the plans for Krema I an II in Auschwitz, they couldn't have been more badly designed for gassing executions. It's always been a mystery to me, how the said problem was overcome there.

Mahatma coat

. I was a German engineer and key member of the Topf works and I saw it as my duty to apply my specialist knowledge in this way to help Germany win the war, just as an aircraft construction engineer builds airplanes in wartime, which are also connected with the destruction of human beings.

If people take the time to understand the mindset of this Quote they will be a lot closer to understanding How the NSDAP took Germany So far along the Road of Madness

jonniebgood1

marcsignal wrote: »

thanks for that jonniebgood1. i'm most interested in the ventilation system they would have had to have for the chambers. I worked with that gas for years back in the 90s doing marine, aircraft, and industrial fumigation. The ventilation part was an extremly slow and the most dangerous part of the whole process.

Looking at the plans for Krema I an II in Auschwitz, they couldn't have been more badly designed for gassing executions. It's always been a mystery to me, how the said problem was overcome there.

Taking reference from http://www.topfundsoehne.de/download/medienmappe_ef_en.pdf the firm referecnced here were only involved in Krema II & III. There is also reference to their role in designing these and passing reference to the ventilation.

my interest in this is in the role that a seemingly run of the mill company played in the murders/ burning of bodies. The company saw no reason to cover up the role in book keeping, etc, which suggests that there was nothing to hide. This is contrary to much stated opinions that the killings were not common knowledge to the general public.

From link above-

Polish former inmate of Auschwitz and Buchenwald Józef Szajna
once said, “In Auschwitz there weren’t devils and human beings; there were human beings and
human beings.” The human beings who had desired, conceived and built the camp and kept it
running, and the human beings – ultimately more than a million – who were killed there:

.....
What kinds of ovens are needed to burn thousands upon thousands of corpses,
continuously and in an energy-efficient manner? And wouldn’t it be expedient to have means of
ventilating the gas chambers as quickly as possible in order to be able to fill them up with new
people at the shortest possible intervals? For the solutions to such problems, the SS were
dependent on civilian experts who had no scruples about thinking their way into the practical
aspects of extermination, down to the smallest detail, and developing the appropriate technology,
installing it, getting it running on site and, where necessary, maintaining and repairing it. Such
experts were to be found, among other places, in Erfurt at the company of Topf & Sons. The
mutually satisfactory business partnership between Topf & Sons and the SS presumably began in
1939, several months before the beginning of World War II, and lasted until its end.

At Topf & Sons there were evidently no moral or ethical bounds to be overcome or whittled down
in a lengthy process of stupefaction and brutalization. This circumstance is striking because, on
the one hand, the chief players – the company owners Ludwig and Ernst-Wolfgang Topf, the
engineers Kurt Prüfer and Karl Schultze, the authorized signatory Fritz Sander, the fitters such as
Martin Holick, Wilhelm Koch and Heinrich Messing – knew exactly what the incineration ovens
and ventilation systems were needed and used for in Auschwitz. On the other hand, however, not
one of them corresponded to the image of the fanatical National Socialist or radical anti-Semite.
.....
These employees were thus acquainted with Auschwitz
from personal experience, and their familiarity was far from superficial: They participated directly
in the first mass murders and incineration procedures in order to ascertain the smooth operation
of the facilities they had constructed and installed; their observations also served as a basis for
making further improvements.