Kings Inn Dip or BCL?

mrcricket

Hi,

I graduated with a B.A in Economics and Politics in UCC September last and have spent the last few months working in UCC. My job will finish in July and I need to move along and "grow up."

At this stage I am fairly certain that I will at some stage sit the exams in King's Inn. With regard to this I have a number of questions and would really appreciate your feedback.

1) Whilst I am aware that the life of a young barrister isn't easy (would characterise it as retched.) I wonder have I developed an irrational fear? I have no issues killing myself for years but at times I get the feeling that people are killing themselves for little reward in the end. What is the life of a barrister, specifically one starting out, really like?

One finds drips and draps along the way and in literature but they always come across as polished and more importantly sterile. A honest account would benefit not just me but the next 50 people who are awake at 4am trawling the internet for information.

2) The issue of qualifications is well known to me. My options are basically this. A) Return to UCC for three years and take the BCL degree or Take the dip in King's (I am aware of the UL course and DIT transfer but they don't interest me.) What would people recommend? I am fairly well briefed on the quality and day to day routine of the BCL but have little information about the dip.

3) Money is important...I don't have a great deal of it so the need to work part time to pay fees for the Bcl/Dip and then the B.L is a concern from my end. Whilst I can get information on the fees it's difficult to access the true cost of what's required over the 2 years in Kings (B.L Mod) and the years immediately after devilling (Will laden myself with debt for that year)

4) Future of the profession is something of concern also...One hears of there being little to no work available for barristers with many years experience never mind the young lads starting out. I know that numbers are up but is work still there?

5) Finally...If there are things that I can improve upon, or work on over the next few months (public speaking etc etc) what would those things be? I certainly want to brush up my English, punctuation etc.

That's it. I really will appreciate any feedback on the above questions.

Thanks.

Gh

Jo King

Your grammar is terrible. Try learning English.

johnnyskeleton

mrcricket wrote: »

1) Whilst I am aware that the life of a young barrister isn't easy (would characterise it as retched.) I wonder have I developed an irrational fear? I have no issues killing myself for years but at times I get the feeling that people are killing themselves for little reward in the end. What is the life of a barrister, specifically one starting out, really like?

Here's a list of threads more or less on the same topic. Maybe you should read through those and if, for example, a particular post strikes you as interesting, you can bring it back up for discussion.

The short answer is that the first few years of barristerin' involve hard work, little or no money with uncertainty as regards future career prospects. Some will say that the life of all barristers involves hard work, little or no money and no career certainty and that it is impossible to earn a living in that career. I don't think the latter is an accurate summary. Equally, others are of the view that the difficulties in the first few years is a relatively new phenomenon because of the 200+ becoming barristers over the last few years, but it has more or less always been difficult for barristers starting off.

mrcricket wrote: »

One finds drips and draps along the way and in literature but they always come across as polished and more importantly sterile. A honest account would benefit not just me but the next 50 people who are awake at 4am trawling the internet for information.

You want more cussin' then? I'm sure you'll find plenty of that in the linked threads.

mrcricket wrote: »

2) The issue of qualifications is well known to me. My options are basically this. A) Return to UCC for three years and take the BCL degree or Take the dip in King's (I am aware of the UL course and DIT transfer but they don't interest me.) What would people recommend? I am fairly well briefed on the quality and day to day routine of the BCL but have little information about the dip.

Again, plenty information on the diploma in KI if you do a search for it. The main differences between the courses are one is in Dublin the other in Cork, one is 2 years the other 3/4 and one is nighttime the other daytime.

mrcricket wrote: »

3) Money is important...I don't have a great deal of it so the need to work part time to pay fees for the Bcl/Dip and then the B.L is a concern from my end. Whilst I can get information on the fees it's difficult to access the true cost of what's required over the 2 years in Kings (B.L Mod) and the years immediately after devilling (Will laden myself with debt for that year)

If you're from Cork and want to move to Dublin, you should post in either Accomodation and Property or the Dublin forum to get tips on keeping the cost of living low. Suffice it to say that you are talking 3/400+ rent plus bills, food and transport.

The barristerrin' costs are roughly:
1) 2 years diploma = 9,690
2) 1/2 year degree course = 13,160
3) Law Library entrance fee and first year = 3,000
4) wig, gown collars, tabs, suits = 500-2000
5) laptop = 500
6) practitioner text books = 500
Total = roughly 28k

If your living expenses per year are say 18k p.a. and say 6 years (2 year diploma, 2 year degree, 2 years deviling) that 108k

So plus the costs of education etc there is a total of maybe 140k to get you through the qualification period and deviling. If you work full time during the diploma and part time degree and then part time during deviling you should be able to meet most of these costs by earning c. 23k p.a. on average or 28k p.a. full time for 4 years and 12.5k part time for 2 years.

So while the amounts might seem daunting, they are doable if you can get decent full time and part time jobs.

mrcricket wrote: »

4) Future of the profession is something of concern also...One hears of there being little to no work available for barristers with many years experience never mind the young lads starting out. I know that numbers are up but is work still there?

Yes there is still work for barristers. Lots of it in fact. There was an article in the Sunday Time before christmas from the chairman of the barcouncil deaing with these issues. In it it was suggested by an "unnamed" junior barrister that work was up in criminal, commercial litigation and insolvency areas. There are problems getting paid in other areas, but there is still work there.

Here's an article from a young barrister about her "young bar association". http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/1229/1224286422894.html

She said:

Sophia Purcell BL said it was now taking up to seven years to break even at the Bar, and those qualified for seven years or less now make up over 46 per cent of its members.

and

Ms Purcell said it had always taken up to five years for a young barrister to break even, but that period had lengthened and it had become harder to survive in the meantime. Young barristers build up very significant loans for living expenses, she said, and they are still living at home into their 30s.

I'm not sure that the picture she paints is entirely accurate, but you can make your own mind up on it.

mrcricket wrote: »

5) Finally...If there are things that I can improve upon, or work on over the next few months (public speaking etc etc) what would those things be? I certainly want to brush up my English, punctuation etc.

Maybe read the Notable British Trials series to get some ideas, or watch a bit of Rumpole to give you an idea of what barristers do. Good public speaking and proper English are useful, but not essential, for the job.

mrcricket

Jo King wrote: »

Your grammar is terrible. Try learning English.

Thanks for the constructive criticism...Much appreciated! Let's add picking my writing style apart to the list.

Many thanks to johnnyskeleton.

johnnyskeleton

It seems I forgot to post the list of previous threads. Sorry about that:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=68223593&postcount=2