My provisional house plans - be gentle!!

uptowngirly

Hi everyone!!

I thought I'd share our house plans with you and see if ye spot anything that ye would change as hundreds of heads are better than two!!

Windows/external doors aren't in yet - but just to give ye an idea - there will be a door out to the back garden from the laundry room that's not on the plans.

The stairs in the living area goes up to a mezzaine level where there will be a library (with a glass balustrade!)

Ian's room is basically a boys room - doubling as a cinema room!

The front of the house is east (hence three of the bedrooms get the morning sun) and ye'll be able to work out the orientation from that!

There will be massive windows in the living room area and a big sliding door hopefully!Let me know if there's anything that ye think doesn't work or something I've forgotten!

I throw it open to the house....

rayjdav

Uptowngirly,
At first glance, imho you are missing a MASSIVE free opportunity for natural south light in this layout.
The only end that gets the south light will be a gable wall, I assume, with probably a window to the master bed and a blank wall to the robes??
If the house was flipped 180 degrees, it would mean that you would get natural south light to the dining area, filtering through to the kitchen.
The kitchen will be cold and dark imo from this layout, with minimal light in the evening. I like the kitchen bright in the morning and evening, when it is going to be used basically. The external wall, as shown, only allows for a minimal window to the kitchen to the west?
Also, is there a reason that the plant room is so "isolated"?
Would you not swap "Ians room" with the spare bedroom, have all beds getting morning light?
Just my 2 cents for their worth:) As the saying goes, "Doctors differ, patients die":D:D

Always remember though, this is YOUR house, so no matter what critique you get here, if you like it, as your going to live in it, and pay for it, biuld it as you see fit.;)

uptowngirly

Thanks a million Rayjdav!

There will be a door out from the master bedroom on the south side - but I totally see your point re the sun - the worst thing is that we thought that the way it was set up meant that we were using the sun well

I"m playing with graph paper here to plot your really appreciated points!

The reason we put the bedrooms all on one corridor was so that the laundry room could have all dirty clothes dropped there and dealt with so as not to be traipsing them through the house! Another thing to take another look at.

You're a superstar for your comments though - thanks a million

sky6

I would definitely look at turning to get more light into the Kitchen especially.
I can guarantee your wife will be complaining how dark the kitchen is.
Having said that, I to would swap the Plant and the laundry room over.
Reason being it will make it cheaper th heat the house by breaking it up into zones left and right of the plant room.
I would also swap the Spare bedroom over with Ian's room. Not just to have all the bedroom together. But more importantly to have a second reception close to the Hall Door. Theres nothing worse than to invite someone in and then they have walk through your Kitchen, which just might be untidy at the time they call. likewise with your living room, Maybe newspapers and mags strewn around.Children trying to watch tv and your trying to talk.
Unless you really need an actual real bedroom I'd make the spare bedroom (presently Ian's room now ) into a second reception room. I'd put a Bed Setee in there which will meet the need of a bedroom when required. You then have an office if needed, a music room a second tv room. etc.
I would look into heat recovery unit as part of the design. The units are expensive up front but the payback is about 5 to 6 years.
I'd also go for Solar for the Water and Bathroom heating.
I would look through the house from start to finish before I start. Spell it all out in the Builders contract so as there is no disputes.
Good look with it.

uptowngirly

Thanks Sky6 - especially on how to save money re heating!

The heating spec is as follows - GSHP (horizontal) with UFH throughout - hence the reason for the plant room! Separate thermostats in all rooms. 8m2 of solar panels on south roof for DHW.

MHRV is a must in my opinion. There will be a 150mm full fill (with ecobead) cavity at the front of the house (so as we can use wall ties to attach a stone front to the house). The rest of the house will be a block build on the flat with external insulation.

Now - off to look at the location of the plant room again

sky6

Hi,
The best way to save money is to get the build right quality right. Make the house as passive as possible. There are two or 3 passive houses in Ireland now where the heating costs are zero.

It all sounds good except for the GSHP. I would reconsider this for the following reasons. Not what it's cracked up to be. Maintenance is proving out to be high with pump and compressor failures after a few years. Added to high running costs. Also the installation cost is very expensive and the payback is way to long.
Solar is definitely the way to go for DHW. Once installed correctly, Guaranteed to be 99% trouble free.

sydthebeat

a couple of comments from first quick glance

1. completely agree that the house should be flipped. Having your living areas on the northern wall of a house makes no sense when its so easy to rectify. The house should be handed (flipped through its centre)

2. have you done a section at the mezzanine??? how does it work height-wise in comparison to the rest of the houses?

3. the fire regs could scupper your stair layout. im not sure the regs differentiate between a mezzanine and a habitable room.....

ei.sdraob

@OP the L shape is somewhat like mine (orange line northward, green line eastward)

But the kitchen/dinning (largest room above) has windows to the east and south as well as veluxes
Having natural light shinning all the time and especially morning is great and you might not realise how much time you spend in a kitchen :eek:

actually in hindsight I should have made the kitchen/dinning/living area as one huge room (circa 80sqm) with a central stove feature and smart glass partition, hmm

creedp

sky6 wrote: »

Hi,
The best way to save money is to get the build right quality right. Make the house as passive as possible. There are two or 3 passive houses in Ireland now where the heating costs are zero.

It all sounds good except for the GSHP. I would reconsider this for the following reasons. Not what it's cracked up to be. Maintenance is proving out to be high with pump and compressor failures after a few years. Added to high running costs. Also the installation cost is very expensive and the payback is way to long.
Solar is definitely the way to go for DHW. Once installed correctly, Guaranteed to be 99% trouble free.

As a matter of interest SKY6 is the above opinion re: GSHP a personal one or have you or people you know experienced these problems? I agree with you re: additional cost of installation but I have followed the installations by friends/family/aquaintences of a good number of heat pumps and while I agree they are costly to install I have not heard of any instances of pump and compressor failures. In addition the installations I am aware of are are not costly to run and it seems to me the disaster storys concerning running costs I have heard are linked almost entirely to cowboy/incompetent installers. One of the bonuses of heat pumps according to the people I have been speaking with is the fact that you don't need your annual maintenance, don't need your smelly messy oil tank and don't run out of fuel in the middle of a cold snap.

Apologies for jumping in on your thread uptowngirly but I have head very divergent views on GSHP many of which are based on hearsay around disaster installations. Just to bear in mind for your own decision making process.

Regarding your plans I would very much agree with previous comments concerning re-orientating your build to get as much sunshine as possible into your living areas. You will really appreciate it on bright frosty winter days.

antiskeptic

A couple of points (which only focus on what are seen as negatives in the design so don't think I'm being overly critical):

The 10m long corridor (16m from plant room door to master bedroom door) could do with a bit of re-working to avoid the classic bungalow design flaw of darktunnelitis. 1.1m wide might well be functional but it leads to claustraphobia and if there isn't any natural lighting, to lights on all day. I'd consider spreading it out in width. It doesn't have to be widened over the whole length necessarily - even a bulging in width in the middle area (cutting into the walk-in-wardrobes/laundry/hotpress as they currently are) would relieve the oppressive straight line. Using a gently curved wall in the bulging area would soften things even more - and add a bit of interest (indeed, you could make a paralleled wall corridor curve over it's whole length to add interest ) Allowing the corridor ceiling to extend up to sloped roof level with some glazing would also help the sense of space

I've only experienced one house with a bathroom that had two doors into it and it was in a word: awful. There's a psychological aspect to going to the toilet in a room that feels like Grand Central Station. If persisting, then consider some kind of electronic locking which locks both doors automatically once one is locked. Otherwise it'd be a pain for the girls - they'll forget to either lock them or forget to unlock both of them

Having a door to the girls bedroom open onto the door of the walk-in wardrodes might be unavoidable if designing a bedsit but it indicates very poor detailing when the blank canvas is the size of this one.

I'm not sure of the function of the wet room but it appears very small. Too small to hope to provide storage of boot's, coats and the like without becoming hopelessly cramped. Again in a house this size, there is no reason to have cramped spots like that. This room, the wc and larder seem to be tiny-sized. Perhaps you could move the laundry/hotpress rooms 'up the page' and combine with wetroom/wc/larder areas and form a 'utility hub' (and so better utilise the space)

Best of luck with the build!

henryporter

Some more pointers -

You should have some form of porch at the front as an additional 'airlock' to keep heat in if someone calls to the door.

Living room is not accessible from the front hall - imagine if you're having guests and the kitchen is upsidedown - nowhere to go!

Are you planning on a fireplace in the living room? Also the position of the stairs along with the potential location of windows makes it a difficult room to furnish. Stairs still needs to be Building Reg compliant so taking 900mm out of the width of the living room only leaves 3500mm usable width.

What is the site like - is it flat, are there nice views in any specific direction, are there any overlooking issues, what are the boundary conditions (trees, hedges, any overshading issues)?.

Completely agree on the long corridor issue but more or less unavoidable and is more economic. One simple solution is to put a door at the end of the corridor where it meets the entrance hall which prevents everyone seeing right down the corridor. Also acts as additional sound break between living and sleeping areas. High up rooflights in corridor are hard to access and clean.

Would you be better having the plant room accessed externally to avoid maintenance people traipsing through the house - also think about heavier walls here for fire and soundproofing.

I'd make the laundry room 200mm wider for comfort - easier bending down to open washer/dryer without banging backside or head off something!

antiskeptic

It just occurs to me that my own living room is 30 sq/m in a house that is just over 100 sq/m. Your living room is the same size - for a house nearly three times as big.

Have you considered consulting an architect (or architect designed bungalows of similar size)? They'll have dealt with many of the standard problems your facing into.

enda1

Sorry to be Mr. Negative but I must add a couple of points...

Firstly how did you go about designing a house without considering light? Yes I know you mention doors and big windows etc., but you can't use that process and hope to get anything acceptable: the layout and structure and doors and windows are not mutually independent and are not possible to design separately.

Following from this point, you have an 18m long corridor in the centre of the house. Functional? Perhaps. Nice? NO!
It will feel like a dark dreary hospital ward I'm afraid.

Having the back door access right by the main workspace is a questionable act too. I'm all for kitchen's being the heart of the house, but a major thoroughfare is perhaps not the best idea.

Having a library above the living room is nice. Will it EVER be used for that purpose though?

Do you need a hot press AND a plant room? (Actually what's the plant room?)

What that's that hole in the wall between living room and dining room? Is it a fireplace? If so, consider how it will look unlit because this is how it will spend most of its life.

Does the spare bedroom need a walk-in wardrobe? Or are you planning maybe on another kid?

Maybe you should consider somewhere to hang jackets and put shoes and other stuff for householders and guests?

imitation

I think enda1 has a good point with the long dark corridor. I also wonder if the long shape will create any "cold" rooms with 3 external walls. (probably not a big concern with a good level of insulation). There are some nice designs you can do for a squarer shape, like a double bungalow, if thats an option.

You also have alot of walk in wardrobes and other small rooms, I would think about these a bit as they eat up space, walk in wardrobes are great, but the use of a home changes through out the years and a bedroom may become an office in the future.

In my own experience, a bungalow is going to cost a bit more per sqm than a two story house, very roughly 10-20%, something to keep in mind when estimating costs when your designing.

ei.sdraob, smart glass is cool, but its quite expensive and it begins to turn opaque as the years go on, I have seen some thats been in an office for about a decade and its starting to look a bit frosted

uptowngirly

There's very little I'd disagree with lads! We do have an architect, but I think we tied his hands a bit with the exact things that we wanted.

We've gone back to the drawing board and are going for a dormer bungalow, which is a pity in one way as I think the countryside is overrun with them but our architect assures us that there is a way to do it properly!

Thanks so much for all your comments and advice, we just couldnt work out a way of getting around the almost 20 metre corridor and we couldn't live with it when we really looked at it.

sky6

creedp wrote: »

As a matter of interest SKY6 is the above opinion re: GSHP a personal one or have you or people you know experienced these problems? I agree with you re: additional cost of installation but I have followed the installations by friends/family/aquaintences of a good number of heat pumps and while I agree they are costly to install I have not heard of any instances of pump and compressor failures. In addition the installations I am aware of are are not costly to run and it seems to me the disaster storys concerning running costs I have heard are linked almost entirely to cowboy/incompetent installers. One of the bonuses of heat pumps according to the people I have been speaking with is the fact that you don't need your annual maintenance, don't need your smelly messy oil tank and don't run out of fuel in the middle of a cold snap.

Apologies for jumping in on your thread uptowngirly but I have head very divergent views on GSHP many of which are based on hearsay around disaster installations. Just to bear in mind for your own decision making process.

Regarding your plans I would very much agree with previous comments concerning re-orientating your build to get as much sunshine as possible into your living areas. You will really appreciate it on bright frosty winter days.

To answer your question, A friend of mine has installed a number of GSHP systems. He also teaches Plumbing in a training college, MHRV, GSHP,Solar heating.
I have worked for him on different installations.
These are mainly his comments on them.
GSHP Works well with underfloor heating. although underfloor takes too long to heat up and to long to cool down. He has replaced heat pumps after a few years. He said the electrical running costs are about 400 euro per year.
When added to the installation cost somewhere 25 to 30 th Euro This makes for an expensive heating system. He maintains that the payback time is about
25 years.
I pointed out to him that if I had 25th to invest on a new GSHP installation I could easily without much effort turn it into 60th over 25 years. By way 3 to 5 % compound interest. which would far outweigh any saving on payback. He was amazed and said he had never looked at it in that context.
He agreed that GSHP is not value for money.
He prefers MHRV even though the units are expensive about 8 grand. But I worked on a 3th sq ft house recently with him whereby he reckoned could be heated for about 500E per year. We also installed Solae Panels for DHW.
Now I can confirm that Solar is the best thing in recent developments. I believe they will soon be as popular on roofs as TV aerials were in the 60 and 70s. Once installed no running costs about 25 euro per year. and trouble free.
It's the way to go.

picorette

Provisional house plans is an appropriate title. I am very surprised that you say that an Architect designed this for you, particularly considering the orientation issue. The plan layout is very standard bungalow design, and is a credible first attempt but leaves a lot more to be desired. Building your own house is a once in a lifetime opportunity, and you owe it to yourself and your family to do it well. You will have to live with it for the rest of your life.

My main criticism would be that it is essentially a 257 sq m rectangle with a corridor placed in the middle, and an additional double height space added on to one end. Consequently, the rooms have just been chopped up and are quite boxy, and it does not achieve what you would expect for a bungalow of such a large area.

Your starting point of a 17 metre long corridor for circulation space immediately restricts you. As it is a bungalow, presumably most of the internal walls are non-loadbearing, and as such can go anywhere. This was the great step forward with modernism, freeing up the designer and your plan should also be freed up to reflect this.

Secondly, there is no indication of any relationship with the outside. It could be anywhere. On a hill. In a valley. In an open field. On a half acre site. In a housing estate. Open terrain. Sheltered. Exposed. Sloping. Level. With amazing views. Obstructed views. Or right up against an unsightly neighbour. And all of these will have an impact on the design. As others have said, the orientation needs to be considered for maximising light / sunlight. And your design should include areas of decking / paving / terraces immediately outside.

You also need to think about what it will look like from the outside, and the overall look. Outline elevations should be sketched with the plan. The position of some openings may look strange externally ( eg if the windows are centred in a room, they may look off centre externally). The type of roof. Presumably you have something in your mind. Dormers could add some interest and create some different spaces. There might also be scope for additional space in the attic – a possible location for Ian’s Media Room or a playroom for the children?

To my mind, you should treat this as your first attempt. Keep in mind the features that you like and start again. This first plan was a useful exercise and has helped you work out what rooms you would like and the relationships between each, but is only a first step.

Draw up different options. Keep yourself open to alternatives. Try different overall configurations. Rather than basing it on one rectangle. You could have two that meet at 90 degrees (creating an L) or 60 degrees (creating a hub with living one side, and sleeping the other?). A dormer will give you additional space, plus enliven the elevation.

Most importantly, you should work on the configuration of the living space as this is where you will spend most of your time, and should be your no 1 priority.

I hope I am not being harsh. At the risk of opening myself up to criticism, I am going to sketch up something myself if I have time, just to give you an idea of what can be done, to show possible options open to you and will pm it to you later today.

Good luck.

creedp

sky6 wrote: »

To answer your question, A friend of mine has installed a number of GSHP systems. He also teaches Plumbing in a training college, MHRV, GSHP,Solar heating.
I have worked for him on different installations.
These are mainly his comments on them.
GSHP Works well with underfloor heating. although underfloor takes too long to heat up and to long to cool down. He has replaced heat pumps after a few years. He said the electrical running costs are about 400 euro per year.
When added to the installation cost somewhere 25 to 30 th Euro This makes for an expensive heating system. He maintains that the payback time is about
25 years.
I pointed out to him that if I had 25th to invest on a new GSHP installation I could easily without much effort turn it into 60th over 25 years. By way 3 to 5 % compound interest. which would far outweigh any saving on payback. He was amazed and said he had never looked at it in that context.
He agreed that GSHP is not value for money.
He prefers MHRV even though the units are expensive about 8 grand. But I worked on a 3th sq ft house recently with him whereby he reckoned could be heated for about 500E per year. We also installed Solae Panels for DHW.
Now I can confirm that Solar is the best thing in recent developments. I believe they will soon be as popular on roofs as TV aerials were in the 60 and 70s. Once installed no running costs about 25 euro per year. and trouble free.
It's the way to go.

Thanks for the info sky6. Im glad to hear heatpumps work well with UFH as that is what I am installing. I heard some horror stories with oil and UFH which is one of the reasons I considered GSHP. Im assuming that with all installations one finds faulty equipment so I wouldn't be overly surprised if some heat pumps/compressors are replaced after a few years. I would like to clarify the issue of cost though. My GSHP and UFH cost €20k all in with the UFH about €8k of that. The net cost of the GSHP is therefore about €12kand not €20k as I would be installing UFH no matter what source of heat I opted for. In relation to the running costs I think its vitally important to get the installation/commissioning of GSHP correct and this is where many people run into difficulties.

uptowngirly

We have an acre and a half on flat rural land - with orchards to the back (west facing), relations 30 metres to the south and another neighbour 150 metres to the north side of the house. The house is set back 30 metres from the front of the road and across the road are rolling agricultural fields.

We can only get planning for a bungalow or a dormer. We have two kids with one more planned down the line, fingers crossed!

We are also going for the GSHP and underfloor heating option. I know what you mean Creedp about hearing all the horror stories, but personally I have four friends who have had this set up, some for the last 6 years, and all swear by it with no trouble whatsoever and no excessive ESB bills.

To explain - the reason the living block was extended at the north side of the house was to trap the sun in a courtyard type set up. I agree with everything that has been said - and the kitchen/living area is definitely the main priority.

Boards is such an amazing resource to bounce ideas off - I'm sure people will understand what I mean when I say that you can spend ages looking at plans and then when something so obvious is pointed out, you wonder how in heaven's name you didn't notice it yourself. Thank you so much for all the comments - every single one has been unbelievably constructive - I'll be owing drinks all round the country at this rate:D

enda1

I hope you manage to build the house of your dreams and can enjoy it with your family.

If you haven't seen it before, check out Grand Designs on C4. McCloud is a great presenter and has a good design mind I feel. The books are good too and might give you some inspiration.

Good luck.