Driving Ban Question

mr big boy

Hey i was hoping someone could help me out. I got banned from driving for a few years nearly ten years ago when i was a silly teenager. I didn't have a licence at the time and i got banned for several years. I didn't know it at the time but the ban was supposed to start when i first got a licence. I thought i couldn't even apply for a licence until the years i was banned for was up. Anyway i went and got a new licence and there is nothing on the licence that even mentions that i got any sort of ban or anything. Could i apply for insurance now and see what happens or will i get in any sort of trouble if i do?

WIZE

I would go to the Local Garda Station and Ask

Reason for this is if your Driving down the road and get pulled over by the Garda. They can check your Licence . IF it comes up on their DATA Base your will be going back to Count for an Increased ban and probably a fine

seamus

It's come up on another thread, but it's a disqualification from driving, which makes it illegal to drive and to hold a driving licence.

It wouldn't make sense that the ban would only apply from the date you get a licence, because the ban prevents you from holding a licence. You might be getting confused - if the conviction was handed down before you were 17, then perhaps it only comes into effect from your 17th birthday, i.e. when you can legally hold a licence.

As said above, best thing to do would be to clarify it with a local Garda station. You could end up in very serious bother if you ignore it or assume that it's an oversight.

mr big boy

I was 18 when i got the ban. I was told that the ban doesn't start until i got the license. Which would mean i would have to wait years now to get insured. I am thinking it might be better to just bite the bullet and chance my arm rather then have to wait until i am in my 30's to get a car on the road.

seamus

mr big boy wrote: »

I was told that the ban doesn't start until i got the license.

That makes no sense. You cannot apply for a driving licence when banned. In fact, that might be an offence in itself.

Is it possible that you're referring an endorsement rather than a ban?

mr big boy

Thats what i thought but i actually asked a female Garda and she said that the ban doesn't start until you go get the liscence. She could have been wrong though i suppose. What she said was how can you be banned if you don't have a liscence. But i was thinking like you said that i couldn't even apply for it as i was banned. i could just get myself insured and if i am ever pulled up on it just play the fool and see what happens.

WIZE

Your Attitude hasn't really changed since you got banned .

Pat Mustard

I would check with the relevant court office first.

If you can find the date the disqualification was handed down by the judge, then go and find the court clerk and ask him what exactly happened. Then you'll know for sure. The Garda details can be a bit sketchy compared to the court records.

The telephone number for whatever court office you need will be on www.courts.ie or in the green pages of the telephone directory.

mr big boy

WIZE wrote: »

Your Attitude hasn't really changed since you got banned .

I don't have any sort of attitude. I have been banned a long time and never driven a car since. While all my friends were going out driving in their lovely new cars i was getting the bus. I have always thought my ban ment i couldn't get a licence until it was up. So i waited for the time to come and then i hear the ban doesn't start until i get a licence. You would be a little pissed about it if it was you. Thanks for all the help guys.

WIZE

mr big boy wrote: »

I don't have any sort of attitude. I have been banned a long time and never driven a car since. While all my friends were going out driving in their lovely new cars i was getting the bus. I have always thought my ban ment i couldn't get a licence until it was up. So i waited for the time to come and then i hear the ban doesn't start until i get a licence. You would be a little pissed about it if it was you. Thanks for all the help guys.

I mean everyone is telling you to Contact the Garda or Court to clear it up so you Know things are rosie and you willl have no issues

But read back over all your Comments and your saying F**K IT . I will go get insured and see what happens .

Its the same Attitude you had when you were 17
F**K IT . I dont have a Licence but I will drive anyway

MagicSean

The ban starts on the date the judge sets.

seamus

k_mac wrote: »

The ban starts on the date the judge sets.

I presume when you receive a conviction, you are supplied with a copy of the judgement and the relevant dates and orders set down?

I wouldn't take the word of a random Garda who wasn't present in the court to tell you what is and isn't the case.

If you were vague and asked when a "driving offence" applies to your licence, then she may have thought you were referring to penalty points - they don't apply until you get your licence.

xE

As has been said, you cannot get a license if you're disqualified. If you attempt to "play the fool" you will, and should, suffer the consequences which will be worse than the previous consequences.

Ignorantia legis neminem excusat (Ignorance of the law excuses no one). You should contact the Courts for information regarding your case, if you can't remember them. I know if I was disqualified for "several years" I'd remember it well.

mr big boy

I will go go about the rigght way don't worry. I am not a thug. It's just i have been hearing all different stories on what i should do from different people.

1 last question i hope someone can clear up. If i decided to go and get insured anyway. Who is it that will realise i have been banned. The insurance company or the tax company.

MagicSean

You have to declare it to the insurance company.

Canis Lupus

mr big boy wrote: »

1 last question i hope someone can clear up. If i decided to go and get insured anyway. Who is it that will realise i have been banned. The insurance company or the tax company.

Possibly no one until you have an accident at which point the insurance company will says thanks for the premiums you have been paying but we're not paying out (assmuing you're driving whilst banned) so you'll be shafted there and the gardai will do you as well.

Look.... this isn't rocket science. Go to the Gardai, it's hardly a difficult task and ask them for info to help clarify your ban.

NUTLEY BOY

The original court order is the definitive document from which to start to sort this out.

Take chances with insurance companies and licence office and you will eventually get buried in legal strife.

coylemj

Here is the actual situation relating to disqualifications.....

1. When a judge hands down a disqualification, it starts at the end of the period within which you can lodge an appeal, normally this is 14 days after the District Court case. That means that if you are disqualified, you can actually leave the court, hop in a car and legally drive home. In some cases wher there might be hardship because it's coming up to Christmas for example, the judge can order that the disqualification starts from a given date in the future. If no such order is given, the disqualification starts 14 days from the judgement if you do not lodge an appeal.

2. If you lodge an appeal, the disqualification is put on hold pending the outcome of the appeal.

3. The disqualification applies to holding a driving licence, not from driving. This means that if you are an army or Garda driver, you can still legally drive an official vehicle. In practice the army and Garda authorities do not allow disqualified drivers to drive.

4. The fact that the disqualification applies to holding a driving licence means that it is completely irrelevant whether you hold or have ever held a driving licence.

Having been banned in the past would definitely be something that you'd be expected to declare to an insurance company.

Croc

As coylemj says above.

However you should be aware,

Its the Endorsement that is applied when you first get a Licence if as in this instance you never held a licence at the time of the Disqualification.

So most likely the endorsement is affixed to the Licence and it is normally for a minimum of 3 years

Our man in Havana

Does the endorsement run concurrently with the disqualification if a licence was held at the time?

Croc

Our man in Havana wrote: »

Does the endorsement run concurrently with the disqualification if a licence was held at the time?

Yes provided you present the licence for endorsement at the time.
The endorsement only begins when it is actually placed on the Licence.

Note to the best of my knowledge the minimum endorsement is 3 years irrespective of length of disqualification. After that it follows the length of the disqualification.
e.g
2yr Disq = 3yr End, 3yr Disq = 3yr End, 4yr Disq = 4yr End, etc unless the Judge Orders Otherwise.
If he just says "endorse licence" then its 3 years


It is essential a black mark i.e. notification of the fact that you were disqualified etc. Its placed there for the information of Gardai, Insurance Company's etc

Croc

Canis Lupus wrote: »

Possibly no one until you have an accident at which point the insurance company will says thanks for the premiums you have been paying but we're not paying out (assmuing you're driving whilst banned) so you'll be shafted there and the gardai will do you as well.

They may not even pay out if you were not banned, the mere fact that you made a false declaration while applying to them for insurance may be good enough for them to deny a claim.

johnnyskeleton

Our man in Havana wrote: »

Does the endorsement run concurrently with the disqualification if a licence was held at the time?

My reading of it is that if a disqualification is put on the licence, a judge cannot order an endorsement as well. If the person applies for restoration of their licence, an endorsement on the licence follows.

However, if a person lets the ban expire naturally, it should never be endorsed. Of course in reality it will be, but technically it is wrong.

TheNog

mr big boy wrote: »

Hey i was hoping someone could help me out. I got banned from driving for a few years nearly ten years ago when i was a silly teenager. I didn't have a licence at the time and i got banned for several years. I didn't know it at the time but the ban was supposed to start when i first got a licence. I thought i couldn't even apply for a licence until the years i was banned for was up. Anyway i went and got a new licence and there is nothing on the licence that even mentions that i got any sort of ban or anything. Could i apply for insurance now and see what happens or will i get in any sort of trouble if i do?

Definitely check with the court service because if you were banned about 10yrs ago it could be before PULSE was released and it may not have been recorded.

TheNog

Croc wrote: »

Yes provided you present the licence for endorsement at the time.
The endorsement only begins when it is actually placed on the Licence.

Note to the best of my knowledge the minimum endorsement is 3 years irrespective of length of disqualification. After that it follows the length of the disqualification.
e.g
2yr Disq = 3yr End, 3yr Disq = 3yr End, 4yr Disq = 4yr End, etc unless the Judge Orders Otherwise.
If he just says "endorse licence" then its 3 years


It is essential a black mark i.e. notification of the fact that you were disqualified etc. Its placed there for the information of Gardai, Insurance Company's etc

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

My reading of it is that if a disqualification is put on the licence, a judge cannot order an endorsement as well. If the person applies for restoration of their licence, an endorsement on the licence follows.

However, if a person lets the ban expire naturally, it should never be endorsed. Of course in reality it will be, but technically it is wrong.

From the citizen advice bureau which makes more sense. Endorsement of licence for a period of three years after the ban ends.

The Fines Office of the District Court will require you to submit any driving licence you hold, together with the details of the Court Order. Disqualification from driving automatically carries a mandatory 3-year endorsement of your driving licence. The period of endorsement commences when the disqualification period ends. Your licence will then be sent to your local Motor Tax Office where it will be held for collection until the period of disqualification is over.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/travel_and_recreation/motoring_1/driving_offences/driving_offences.html

johnnyskeleton

TheNog wrote: »

From the citizen advice bureau which makes more sense. Endorsement of licence for a period of three years after the ban ends.



http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/travel_and_recreation/motoring_1/driving_offences/driving_offences.html

What is the legal source of this?

TheNog

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

What is the legal source of this?

Section 36 of the Road Traffic Act 1961 covers it

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1961/en/act/pub/0024/sec0036.html#sec36

and there is Section 8 of the RTA 2002

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2002/en/act/pub/0012/sec0008.html

johnnyskeleton

TheNog wrote: »

Section 36 of the Road Traffic Act 1961 covers it

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1961/en/act/pub/0024/sec0036.html#sec36

and there is Section 8 of the RTA 2002

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2002/en/act/pub/0012/sec0008.html

Exactly. Section 36(3) reads:

(3) (a) Where a person is convicted of an offence and a consequential or ancillary disqualification order is made by the court on his conviction, the court shall by order direct particulars of the conviction and the disqualification order to be endorsed on the driving licence held by such person or, if he is not the holder of a driving licence but subsequently a driving licence is granted to him, on that driving licence.

So the endorsement is contemporaneous with the disqualification. Once the disqualification is removed or expires, it is taken off:

(7) Where a disqualification referred to in section 29 of this Act is removed under that section or the period of a disqualification referred to in subsection (3) or (4) of this section expires (being in each case a disqualification to which an order relates that stands endorsement on an entry), the Minister shall cause the endorsement and any endorsement relating to the relevant conviction (if any) to be removed from the entry concerned.

In the case of a removal, the fact of removal is endorsed:

(5) Where a disqualification is removed under section 29 of this Act, the court shall by order direct particulars of the removal to be endorsed on the driving licence held by the person concerned or, if he is not the holder of a driving licence but subsequently a driving licence is granted to him, on that driving licence

However, there doesn't seem to me to be an equivalent provision that when the disqualification expires that the fact of the expiry of the disqualification be endorsed on the licence.

That's my reading of it, which doesn't tally with the practice in reality. However, the law is the law and it looks (unless there is a further amendment or I am reading it wrong) like where a disqualification expires, no further endorsement happens.

mayodanny

hi folks,

hope you can shine some light on my case,

in 1996 i was given a ban of 20 years for dangerious driving, no body was hurt ,injuired or killed thank god,about five years ago i got a 5 year ban to run alongside the 20 year ban,
i went back to the judge yesterday for a restoration of my lieance as i have served 15 years of it ,and that the five year ban had also run its cousre,but the guard told the judge that i have a case pending in march and as a result i was refused my applaction from the judge,is a case thats before the courts and is adjurned to march allowed to be used in another case,please please help.

thanks ,

MagicSean

What's there to help with? Clearly neither the Gardaí nor the judge feel you should be driving. All you can really do is get a very good solicitor to beg for you in March. Although if it's another traffic case you're up on you shouldn't expect anything. The fact that you ignored the previous ban will also count against you.

20 years does seem quite excessive with no injury. Did you drive through an orphanage blindfolded or something?

Reloc8

mayodanny wrote: »

hi folks,

hope you can shine some light on my case,

in 1996 i was given a ban of 20 years for dangerious driving, no body was hurt ,injuired or killed thank god,about five years ago i got a 5 year ban to run alongside the 20 year ban,
i went back to the judge yesterday for a restoration of my lieance as i have served 15 years of it ,and that the five year ban had also run its cousre,but the guard told the judge that i have a case pending in march and as a result i was refused my applaction from the judge,is a case thats before the courts and is adjurned to march allowed to be used in another case,please please help.

thanks ,

Who cares what he did ?

The Garda is entitled to advise the judge of the existence of the pending case. Presuming the pending case is a prosecution under the Road Traffic Acts, unless you were trying to say that your defence was based on you not even having driven in respect of this charge the judge was quite correct to note it as it would seem this was at the least your second incidence of driving whilst disqualified.

If the pending case has nothing to do with driving you might well feel hard done by in the Garda bringing it up and I would probably agree that the Judge should not have had any regard to it.

It is likely that the fact that you drove while disqualified in any event was also influential (noting you got a five year ban during the currency of the 20 year ban I am presuming that this is so).

If you are dissatisfied with the verdict of the District Judge you can appeal to the Circuit Court. The test for the restoration of your licence is whether you are a fit and proper person to drive, having served (in your case) 2 years or more of the ban. The fact that you drove while disqualified would indicate to most courts that you don't seem to have much respect for the provisions of the Road Traffic Acts and this is your main difficulty (and of course the pending case if that is indeed a driving matter).

seamus

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/travel_and_recreation/motoring_1/driving_offences/drink_driving_offences_in_ireland.html

When a court is considering an application for the restoration of a driving licence it will look at the nature of the offence, the character of the applicant and the conduct of the applicant after conviction.

Basically you are not entitled to have your licence returned after half/two-thirds of the period have been reduced. You can apply to have the period of the disqualification reduced, but reduction is at the discretion of the court to which you apply.

A case pending (especially when you have a second disqualification after you original one) would be more than sufficient reason for a judge to refuse your application to have the period of disqualification reduced.

mayodanny

i understand what your saying ,the times i did drive were because of lifesaving drive to our hospital 70 miles away ,

when i was before the judge yesterday he asked the guard for the file in relation to the 20m year ban, the guard then stated that the file had been distroyed ,so the guard then added things that he said happened that did not happen during the case.sayinr that a person had been hurt but no one except me was hurt ,
i feel that the file should have been there or the ban lifted,as trying to relie on someone,s memorey even a guard's after 15 years have passed is not right or fair to the rule of law,

Reloc8

seamus wrote: »

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/travel_and_recreation/motoring_1/driving_offences/drink_driving_offences_in_ireland.html


Basically you are not entitled to have your licence returned after half/two-thirds of the period have been reduced. You can apply to have the period of the disqualification reduced, but reduction is at the discretion of the court to which you apply.

A case pending (especially when you have a second disqualification after you original one) would be more than sufficient reason for a judge to refuse your application to have the period of disqualification reduced.

Minor correction Seamus - in this case the older rules on restoration would have applied - from memory in a ban of under two years half must be served, over two years, two years must have been served. That's as regards the 20 year ban - the five year ban might be post the new act but he's served that anyway, more or less.

mayodanny wrote: »

i understand what your saying ,the times i did drive were because of lifesaving drive to our hospital 70 miles away ,

when i was before the judge yesterday he asked the guard for the file in relation to the 20m year ban, the guard then stated that the file had been distroyed ,so the guard then added things that he said happened that did not happen during the case.sayinr that a person had been hurt but no one except me was hurt ,
i feel that the file should have been there or the ban lifted,as trying to relie on someone,s memorey even a guard's after 15 years have passed is not right or fair to the rule of law,

If you're not happy with the outcome you can appeal - you won't get your licence back from boards posters but from a judge, if at all.

In respect of memory, in point of fact you got a 20 year ban, and moreover drove during the period of disqualification and moreover appear to have another driving case pending, again during a period of disqualification. This in reality is likely to have caused the judge to refuse your application. Given the facts you outline I would assess your likelihood of a successful appeal as truly minimal.

In respect of one of your life-saving drives you appear to have picked up a five year disqualification. What was this for ?

mayodanny

driving while disqual

Our man in Havana

What is the pending case? Traffic related?

mayodanny

does a guard have to be sworn in ,in the witness box,as the guard in my case was not and this was only yesterday in court 52 ,richmond centre ,dublin,

mayodanny

yes ,being honest it is trafic related ,my son has a medical condition ,the ambulance was not about so i had to bring him to our hospital 70 miles away.i am a quaified paramedic so i know it was an emergancy ,i stayed within all speed limits and drove in a proper manner ,yes i am disqualifed ,that is the case before the courts in march

MagicSean

mayodanny wrote: »

does a guard have to be sworn in ,in the witness box,as the guard in my case was not and this was only yesterday in court 52 ,richmond centre ,dublin,

Only to give direct evidence. Not to give information.

mayodanny wrote: »

yes ,being honest it is trafic related ,my son has a medical condition ,the ambulance was not about so i had to bring him to our hospital 70 miles away.i am a quaified paramedic so i know it was an emergancy ,i stayed within all speed limits and drove in a proper manner ,yes i am disqualifed ,that is the case before the courts in march

I'd still love to know how you got a 20 year ban for dangerous driving. In any case if you are successful in defending your case in March you may have a chance of reducing the 20 year ban.

To be honest, I'm surprised that you were prosecuted if it was a genuine emergency. I assume you were stopped on the way to the hospital? You're very unlucky to be caught on the only two occasions you have driven during your ban.

mayodanny

the 20 year ban was i had no insurance ,tax ,at four in the morning in clondalkin,the guards stopped me ,i panicked and tried to get away ,and was rammed off the road by the guards,hit a bus stop ,the guards have now lost my file,

Reloc8

Sorry about your son.

To be honest with you, you're not going to get anything/anywhere by posting on here about your case (perhaps some criticism, which you shouldn't feel obliged to respond to).

You can appeal the District Court refusal to restore, like any decision of that court that a person is dissatisfied with. You have nothing to lose by doing so. Your chances on appeal are however not great to say the least, for reasons already given.

mayodanny

thanks for all the help folks ,
i will be appealing yesterdays decision and also a juidsial review of all the cases as i was not allowed to address the judge to explain in mitigateion,

god bless you all, i know you speck as you see it ,

cheers

Tom Young

Thanks folks. Reported Post from poster before k_mac. If that poster can refer to the forum charter he/she will know why this is being closed. I won't infract or ban but please try and get legal advice, rely on nothing above.