Challenger 25 years on

lord lucan

Today marks the 25th anniversary of the Challenger disaster. Hard to believe it's been 25 years since that fateful freezing day when the crew of STS-51L lost their lives. As terrible as it was,i think it was given an extra poignancy with the addition of Christa McAuliffe as part of the teacher in space programme.

As a kid i was fascinated by the Shuttle and Human Spaceflight. As an 11 year old Junior Lucan looked on in horror as Challenger exploded shortly after launch,the emotions that i felt that day are still replicated to this day when i see the footage from that terrible event. Human Spaceflight has become almost routine during the Space Shuttle era,despite 2 disasters reminding us of the dangers,and the bravery and spirit of those who want to leave the planet in the name of exploration is often forgotten.

So,i'll just salute the crew of STS-51L for their commitment to space exploration,they died through no fault of their own.

Dr. Baltar

Challenger always fascinated me as a child. I read so many books and watched so many documentaries on it. I shall join you in your salute!

lord lucan

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0T1sWablrM

lord lucan

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxtvixxP-cY

thecommander

Was 6 at the time. Will always remember it as the first news item that I remember fully and actually cared about.

Glad it didn't happen now, 24 rolling news would turn it into a circus.

cyrusdvirus

Godspeed Challenger and STS51L

Joining in the Salute.
Godspeed Challenger. Hero's one and all. I marvelled at them and their courage, and still do.


There isnt a time when I watch that event, where I dont have tears streaming down my face.

norrie rugger

I was 5 and remember seeing it live. I was so stunned, I did not fully understandwhat had happened. It still affects me, every time i see it

Beeker

I was at work listening to the launch on VOA {Voice of America} on a small shortwave radio. I could noT believe what had happened. I had to finish early and cycle home about 3 miles to watch the TV reports. A very sad day:(

Beeker

Anyone interested can take a look here at some material I put up a while back covering the first 25 flights up to Challenger accident.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055994374&page=6

petergdub

Was 18 when Challenger happened.
It was tragic and I thought it couldnt possibly be any worse - until Columbia happened.
- The videos / audio from Mission Control are moving.
- The fact that the astronauts may have been conscious of what was happening.

tim_holsters

The OP's post really resonated with me.

I was 16 at the time and I remember a few of us talking about the upcoming launch.

Things like that were a big deal back then.

The actual footage still has a profound effect on me.

Bruthal

It must of had a big effect on the standby teacher who came second in the teacher in space programme. What would you be feeling at that point it exploded, relieved you did not win, horrified as well? I was 15 at the time.

lord lucan

robbie7730 wrote: »

It must of had a big effect on the standby teacher who came second in the teacher in space programme. What would you be feeling at that point it exploded, relieved you did not win, horrified as well? I was 15 at the time.

That was Barbara Morgan. I always find the following video heartbreaking,the joy of watching her friends who'd she'd trained with for a long time launch into space and then the realisation that it's all gone wrong.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBfZkQRWbIA

She later flew as a mission specialist on STS-118 in 2007,thus realising her ambition of flying in space.

Tea drinker

lord lucan wrote: »

That was Barbara Morgan.......
She later flew as a mission specialist on STS-118 in 2007,thus realising her ambition of flying in space.

I believe she was supposed to fly on STS-107, the doomed Columbia mission, I'm not sure what happened that she didn't fly.

lord lucan

Tea drinker wrote: »

I believe she was supposed to fly on STS-107, the doomed Columbia mission, I'm not sure what happened that she didn't fly.

Wasn't aware of that tbh. She only returned to the Astronaut Corp around 1998 iirc and would've undergone around 2 years training before being passed fit for duty as a MS. The Astronaut office would've still been pretty big back then so you'd have to wait a while for "your turn" so to speak. With just over 2 years before Discovery commenced the RTF it ended up being 2007(may have been '04/05 if Columbia hadn't of happened) before she got to fly.

Nice little interview pre-STS-118 with Barbara Morgan here.

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=3045642n

Beeker

lord lucan wrote: »

Wasn't aware of that tbh. She only returned to the Astronaut Corp around 1998 iirc and would've undergone around 2 years training before being passed fit for duty as a MS. The Astronaut office would've still been pretty big back then so you'd have to wait a while for "your turn" so to speak. With just over 2 years before Discovery commenced the RTF it ended up being 2007(may have been '04/05 if Columbia hadn't of happened) before she got to fly.

Nice little interview pre-STS-118 with Barbara Morgan here.

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=3045642n

Have to say I never read anywhere that she was considered for STS-107. That crew was picked in 2000/01 I think and was never changed.

clln

From Florida Today, Feb. 13: NASA's early shuttle missions were much more risky than initially believed, according to a new analysis by safety and mission assurance experts at the Johnson Space Center. As it nears retirement, the shuttle is 10 times safer than it was when the first missions flew three decades ago. The early flights carried a 1 in 9 chance of catastrophe, rather than the 1/100 and 1/100,000 chances of disaster attributed to missions by engineers and managers. Top risks include an orbital debris strike, main engine failure and heat shield damage. Shuttle program manager John Shannon believes the new assessment is crucial to the planning of future spacecraft.

http://www.floridatoday.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2011102130319

honestly what a shame about the part in highlights:(

Beeker

clln wrote: »

http://www.floridatoday.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2011102130319

honestly what a shame about the part in highlights:(

I agree, I know it is time to move on, but what a shame to retire a vehicle that is running better now then it ever did:(

Bruthal

clln wrote: »

http://www.floridatoday.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2011102130319

honestly what a shame about the part in highlights:(

Part of the increased risk and danger years ago was warning signs being ignored though at the time of the challenger launch. It was known about the problem of the o rings having problems in freezing weather conditions before that launch.

clln

robbie7730 wrote: »

Part of the increased risk and danger years ago was warning signs being ignored though at the time of the challenger launch. It was known about the problem of the o rings having problems in freezing weather conditions before that launch.

Totally agree robbie, and the SRBs makers were forced into reversing an NO GO by top NASA management just hours before launch.

i have read books on it,tried to read the report into the enquiry but it runs to thousands of pages.

what persuaded me was a simple demonstration by the Chairman of the investigation cmtee on a Discovery channel Doc.
Neil Armstrong was on that cmtee as a matter of interest.
He dropped an elastic band into a super chilled glass of water and it shrivelled and deformed leaving no doubt what had happened to the o ring.
the worst thing was there had been minor leaks from o rings contraction on previous launch's but were ignored as being acceptable.:(

lord lucan

robbie7730 wrote: »

Part of the increased risk and danger years ago was warning signs being ignored though at the time of the challenger launch. It was known about the problem of the o rings having problems in freezing weather conditions before that launch.

There was a culture at NASA then that was a bit Irish. "Ah,sure it's grand" was the attitude. Problems that were potentially catastrophic were often ignored or the guys reporting them were fobbed off with a "we'll look into it"! There's been many near misses,i'll catalogue them here if i get around to it,and they were flukey in the extreme that they got away with it until Challenger.

Sadly that attitude crept back in and it took Columbia's demise for the whole ethos to change at NASA. Same again,this time foam strikes on the Orbiters leading edge were dismissed as no big deal. Some guys wanted to bring it further as they real concerns but management told them there was no cause for concern.

clln

lord lucan wrote: »

i'll catalogue them here if i get around to it,and they were flukey in the extreme that they got away with it until Challenger.

Beeker reported them all in the Beeker in the attic thread,up to Challenger! your modship lordship!

Sadly that attitude crept back in and it took Columbia's demise for the whole ethos to change at NASA. Same again,this time foam strikes on the Orbiters leading edge were dismissed as no big deal. Some guys wanted to bring it further as they real concerns but management told them there was no cause for concern.

the commander of Columbia was sent an e-mail mentioning the foam strike but it was so played down it would not have grabbed his attention .
it was always the case that the 'lower downs' at NASA were given the least attention.

the video you posted of the crew of Columbia looking so happy during re-entry until almost the moment of break up speaks volumes,at least they lived the dream until landing day.
i question the NASA story that the outer parts of the tape that was recovered from the debris did not survive,i think NASA chose not to release it,that was the right thing to do IMO.
even if the crew knew on day one about the size of the hole in the wing nothing could have been done, again IMO.

but as the saying goes 'the man who never tried anything,never achieved anything'

even before both shuttle loss's Gene Krantz admitted that NASA had got complacent leading to the loss of Apollo 1s crew,it seems to have gone in circles depending on how much support the space programme had by the American public and understanding by Govt that leaving the Earth's gravity is not like jumping on a bus!

lord lucan

Forgot to post this here. Interesting idea about putting on display some artifacts from both Challenger and Columbia in the Air & Space Museum in Washington D.C.

http://www.collectspace.com/news/news-013111a.html

clln

lord lucan wrote: »

Forgot to post this here. Interesting idea about putting on display some artifacts from both Challenger and Columbia in the Air & Space Museum in Washington D.C.

http://www.collectspace.com/news/news-013111a.html

I would trust collectspace after reading that article.
the sensitivity shown to the families is very rare other than by them,in my experiance.

Beeker

Video I just came accross that I had not seen before of the launch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52fycYYJa8A

lord lucan

My first impression was that it was the close-out crew who are talking in the background. Not so sure now.

Beeker

lord lucan wrote: »

My first impression was that it was the close-out crew who are talking in the background. Not so sure now.

I think it is the closeout crew. View is from about 3 miles from the pad.

lord lucan

Beeker wrote: »

I think it is the closeout crew. View is from about 3 miles from the pad.

It's one of the few videos i've watched were the guys knew instantaneously what had happened. Most of the others have people saying "that doesn't look right" or "that's not supposed to happen". These guys knew straight away that there'd been a catastrophic event and were moving straight away to get back onto their vehicle.

Beeker

lord lucan wrote: »

It's one of the few videos i've watched were the guys knew instantaneously what had happened. Most of the others have people saying "that doesn't look right" or "that's not supposed to happen". These guys knew straight away that there'd been a catastrophic event and were moving straight away to get back onto their vehicle.

Just found another link to the same video which states it is from TV Van 2 so it may be a NASA film crew but not sure.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrnSHS9l7Qc&feature=related

clln

First time i have seen footage were the camera concentrated to the left.i was not aware an SRB had survived intact,was it just the portion that housed the parachute i wonder?
certainly any pictures i have seen of recovered debris shows no large segments.

I also fail to understand how many did not realise right away what had happened,it was so evident,almost like most viewing did not want to accept the evidence of their own eyes.

Bruthal

clln wrote: »

I also fail to understand how many did not realise right away what had happened,it was so evident,almost like most viewing did not want to accept the evidence of their own eyes.

I think your right about that, here is another video of it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDVN78hdqTk

Beeker

clln wrote: »

First time i have seen footage were the camera concentrated to the left.i was not aware an SRB had survived intact,was it just the portion that housed the parachute i wonder?
certainly any pictures i have seen of recovered debris shows no large segments.

I also fail to understand how many did not realise right away what had happened,it was so evident,almost like most viewing did not want to accept the evidence of their own eyes.

The boosters were destroyed remotely by the range and safety guys shortly after the breakup of the stack. The only parts that survived of any size were the nose cones which deployed their parachutes.

clln

Beeker wrote: »

The boosters were destroyed remotely by the range and safety guys.

Oh yeah i forgot about them,like the launch directors who have to live with themselves on any manned launch if something goes wrong having given the final GO.

range safety officers would in extreme circumstances have to remote explode a craft even with a crew aboard.
not a job for the fainthearted!
interesting to see the chute,like i said never saw that before.

Beeker

clln wrote: »

Oh yeah i forgot about them,like the launch directors who have to live with themselves on any manned launch if something goes wrong having given the final GO.

range safety officers would in extreme circumstances have to remote explode a craft even with a crew aboard.
not a job for the fainthearted!
interesting to see the chute,like i said never saw that before.

Yeah what a tough decision to have to make:eek: Not a job for me.......however if it got me closer to the Shuttle.....maybe I could:)