Pilot Training

No.username

Hi folks, I am seriously considering training to be a commercial pilot. However i would be leaving a good job to go and train, and im a bit worried ill come home with a frozen ATPL and wont get a job.

I am thinking of going with PTC in waterford/florida which is 84,000 euro, which would leave me with one heck of a loan to pay back when i complete my training.

My questions are..

Do airlines hire pilots with frozen ATPL's and only flying hours acquired from training?

Do airlines pay for your type rating, or am i going to have to fork out another wad of cash?

Does anybody know much about the ryanair cadet scheme, ie. do you pay the €27k :eek: or do they pay it and you pay them back from your salary?

Any help appreciated
cheerio

xflyer

No.username wrote: »

My questions are..

Do airlines hire pilots with frozen ATPL's and only flying hours acquired from training?

Do airlines pay for your type rating, or am i going to have to fork out another wad of cash?

Does anybody know much about the ryanair cadet scheme, ie. do you pay the €27k :eek: or do they pay it and you pay them back from your salary?

Any help appreciated
cheerio

Q1. Airlines do or did hire low time pilots. Aer Lingus for example but competition is fierce and in the case of Aer Lingus low time pilots were in competition with experienced type rated pilots.

Q2. Some do pay for the type rating, but increasingly you pay. Even if the do pay for you will be bonded and probably expected either to pay it back over a period or work for them for a minimum period.

Q3. You pay it all, and for accomodation, travel, food, uniform, medical etc etc. They pay nothing. You also pay for the interview, sim check before you even get selected. Also during line training you don't get paid.

As for your choice of school, PTC have improved but they are expensive for what they offer and they will not get you a job despite the implication on their website. This is true of any school. Schools love to list the airlines their graduates work for as if it was something to do with them. If you train to be a pilot, it's hardly surpring you end up working for an airline.

nag

No.username wrote: »

Hi folks, I am seriously considering training to be a commercial pilot. However i would be leaving a good job to go and train, and im a bit worried ill come home with a frozen ATPL and wont get a job.

Well, that's the risk you take. Sadly, it doesn't work out for everyone. It depends on how much you enjoy your current job and the lifestyle it affords you.

No.username wrote: »

I am thinking of going with PTC in waterford/florida which is 84,000 euro, which would leave me with one heck of a loan to pay back when i complete my training.

Don't. I know all too well the warm fuzzy feeling they give you when they pander to your dreams and ambitions, pushing their glossy brochure under your nose and tell you that you're dealing with the best in the industry. It's all a smoke screen because the truth of the matter is, they are no different than any other flight training organisation. If you want proof of their hi-jinx, take a look at the ASA's Adjudication on The Pilot Training College.

No.username wrote: »

Do airlines hire pilots with frozen ATPL's and only flying hours acquired from training?

Yes but it's not easy getting that first job interview, let alone a job. Things have improved recently but supply is still very much greater than demand and I expect will continue to be for some time to come.



Have you got any flying hours? PPL? Or are you starting from zero?

MightyDucks

I don't have a fATPL licence but I have started my PPL and have done research into this area so take what you will of this.

From what I’ve heard and read PTC are not the best company to be doing business with. They charged people a lot of money for an "integrated" course when in fact it was a modular. In fairness as far as I know they do now have an integrated course but if I have that kind of money PTC would definitely not be my first choice.

Airlines do hire pilots fresh out of college however these days this is almost impossible to do this unless you get sponsored by an airline and even then this doesn't guarantee you a job at the end of your training.

Some airlines do and others don't pay for your type rating. However if your taking on pilot training in my opinion expect to pay for your type rating because in order to get your foot on the first rung this is prob going to be necessary.

With Ryanair you must pay up front and from what I’ve heard its gone up to 35k now. The airline industry is in a big pile of #### at the moment so getting a job is seriously difficult.

I hope this has helped some way and feel free to pm me if you have any questions, I’ll do my best to answer them. I'm only telling you what I know or think I know so if someone knows If I gave some incorrect info please let Him/Her know

donkey balls

Dont mind me asking op what age are you as this could have an affect on getting hired,As X flyer has mentioned alot of airlines(mainly FR) will hire lads with a F-ATPL with no jet time my mate being an example.
As for PTC there was only one lad on the FR TR that went with PTC when my mate was training the rest of the lads did it in Florida/UK all are FO with FR now,The guy who went to PTC owes about 130k my mate because he went modular owes 30k for the TR.

smellslikeshoes

You're absolutely mad if you are planning on getting out an 84k loan
Fact is even though there are a few airlines that take on low timers it's an absolute minuscule number. Why would they bother hiring low timers when there is pretty much infinite type rated guys with a few thousand hours out of work right now.

If you are completely set on training, keep your job and do it modular. You won't have to be getting out massive loans and when you complete your training you won't be under pressure to immediately find an airline job because you will still have your current job.

That 84k PTC quoted will just be the tip of the iceberg. If you went ahead with going to the PTC I'd be expecting closer to 100k with all the other costs added up and that's not including the fairly likely self funded TR. How long could you service a 100k loan for? Bearing in mind it often takes guys a year or two to get their first job.


edit-
Here is a blog written by a guy who went with PTC. He completed the training in April 09 and eventually paid for a TR in July 10, and finally succeeded in getting a job in November 10. So that's about 18 months of paying off a loan without an Airline job and then eventually having to pay for the Type rating also. Also bear in mind that was his first and only interview, if he hadn't of got that job he might still be out of work coming up on two years since finishing training.

rob88

i wonder who he is flying for.. it is an atr with a cargo company??

smellslikeshoes

rob88 wrote: »

i wonder who he is flying for.. it is an atr with a cargo company??

I've a fair idea but as he has taken the time to write something so informative I think it's only right that his decision to not name the company is respected.

rob88

smellslikeshoes wrote: »

I've a fair idea but as he has taken the time to write something so informative I think it's only right that his decision to not name the company is respected.

pm me?

donkey balls

rob88 wrote: »

i wonder who he is flying for.. it is an atr with a cargo company??

I probely know who he is working for if it's a cargo outfit:pnot going tell anyway also if it is the company that I know off they require you to have hrs on type.

rob88

donkey balls wrote: »

I probely know who he is working for if it's a cargo outfit:pnot going tell anyway also if it is the company that I know off they require you to have hrs on type.

this guy didnt have hours on an atr

xflyer

I doubt if it's the cargo outfit I'm thinking of. They are popular to work for and can pick and choose experienced pilots.

Cessna_Pilot

Air Contractors are the only ATR operator that springs to mind in Ireland.

No.username

Hey guys, thanks for the info! U hav really got me thinking now Im 23 so i suppose age is on my side if i do decide to go modular! I have only ever had a 1 hour lesson.
I was talking to an Aer Lingus manager in work the other day and he told me that EI prefer guys or gals that have done an intergrated course. He also suggested checking out FTE Jerez. Anybody know much about FTE (apart from the fact its 95K) :eek:
I am thinking about asking for a career break so at least when i finish my training i have a job to start paying back the loan. If i dont get the career break it looks like ill be going modular:rolleyes:

xflyer

No.username wrote: »

I was talking to an Aer Lingus manager in work the other day and he told me that EI prefer guys or gals that have done an intergrated course. He also suggested checking out FTE Jerez. Anybody know much about FTE (apart from the fact its 95K)

Wow, an honest Aer Lingus manager.:eek: The official line is that they don't favour integrated courses or favour graduates from Oxford Aviation Academy or FTE. On the other hand in the real world...............

Nothing wrong with FTE, they are excellent but you will pay big money for the privilege and it still won't guarantee a job at the end, least of all in Aer Lingus. In fact most likely you will get an interview from Ryanair which if accepted means you have to find another 35k.

If you can lay your hands on that kind of money then go for it, if not well it's modular. You can always try for Aer Lingus as a direct entry pilot later in your career assuming it still exists or hasn't become a clone of FR.