Elinchrom D-Lite-4 vs D-Lite 2 kit...

kelly1

Hello all,

could anyone tell me please whether it's worth spending the extra €90 on the D-Lite 4 kit? ie. 200ws vs 400ws

http://www.barkerphotographic.ie/products.php?id=1423&cat=100
http://www.barkerphotographic.ie/products.php?id=1349&cat=100

Am I likely to need the extra power for a home studio kit? If I go with the D-Lite 2 kit, I'd be inclined to put the €90 towards a flashmeter.

Thanks,
Noel.

slimboyfat

Go for the dlite 4 kit, that bit more power is much more useful. Sure what do you need a flashmeter for when you have a pefectly good in your camera already.

oshead

Get a 4/2 kit if you can. The D-lites have a 5 stop range. With a 4/2 kit you get a 6 stop range. The lowest power setting on the 400 is be more than enough for nearly everything you need. Most of the time you will find you need less power. The 200 starts off at a stop less than the 400. If you get the 200 you will have just that flexibility. For a small studio this is exactly what you need.

I have a pair of BXRi 500s and find them to be way too powerful for a home studio. I never go to full power with them. I've resorted to buying sheets of 3 stop ND gels to try and reduce the light. Other wise all my studio shots start at about f8 @ ISO 100. OK for group shots but if you want to get a shallow DoF you need less power. Many a time I just leave them in the bag and use my small flashes.

Oh, and by the way, get a meter.

kelly1

oshead wrote: »

Get a 4/2 kit if you can. The D-lites have a 5 stop range. With a 4/2 kit you get a 6 stop range. The lowest power setting on the 400 is be more than enough for nearly everything you need. Most of the time you will find you need less power. The 200 starts off at a stop less than the 400. If you get the 200 you will have just that flexibility. For a small studio this is exactly what you need.

Thanks for the info David. It looks like the 2/4 kit only comes with umbrellas. I want to go for the softbox option. If the softbox kit comes only in 2/2 or 4/4, would I be better off with the 4/4 or is 2/2 plenty?

oshead wrote: »

Oh, and by the way, get a meter.

I ordered the Sekonic L-308s last night

oshead

I've got a couple of spare soft boxes that i got with the BXRi's that i don't really use. They're in perfect condition. I'd be more than happy to exchange one for an umbrella and reflector dish that comes with the D-lites. They are of equal value IMO. That way you have the best of both worlds

Don't feel pressurized. Chances are you will buy other light modifiers as time goes on. I'm just looking for umbrellas with a 7mm shaft atm.

Btw, the meter is essential.

kelly1

oshead wrote: »

I've got a couple of spare soft boxes that i got with the BXRi's that i don't really use. They're in perfect condition. I'd be more than happy to exchange one for an umbrella and reflector dish that comes with the D-lites. They are of equal value IMO. That way you have the best of both worlds

Thanks for the offer but I'd imagine I'll need the reflector. Is it not used for holding a grid? I think spill could be a prob without it.

What size are the softboxes as a matter of interest?

oshead wrote: »

...I'm just looking for umbrellas with a 7mm shaft atm.

On the subject of unbrellas, would you say they're better for group shots compared with softboxes because they spread the light more? I'm thinking of family portraits.

kelly1

slimboyfat wrote: »

....Sure what do you need a flashmeter for when you have a pefectly good in your camera already.

The cameras meter is no good for flash. Are you talking about checking the histogram?

oshead

You'll most probably have to buy an 18cm reflector if you want a grid with it too. €56 in Gunns. I use mine inside the hi-lite. I think the softbox is 66cm square. I'll check and get back to you. Over a year since I used it.

And for sure. Group/family shots are more about subject placement and catching good expressions. Try to shape light at your peril. Use an umbrella and hope no one blinks.

PopeBuckfastXVI

Dave,

Would you say the 'chroms would stand up to prolonged usage - say 100-150 cycles in 90 minutes at a time?

Edit: Sorry - I see you're not using the d-lites, maybe anyone else with experience of them could comment?

Thanks!

kelly1

OK, this looks good...

I go for the the Dlite 2/4 umbrella kit (€545) and an 18cm reflector with 30deg grid (€49) totaling €594. And do the swap with you for the softbox.

vs

The Dlite 2 SB kit for €579 or the Dlite 4 SB kit for €669.

I could use the 18cm reflector/grid for lightining the background or hairlights.

Sounds ok?

Borderfox

I have the Dlite 400 kit and went for it for the extra power, find it excellent and never had a days trouble with it. I did a product shot recently and over two days shot 400 products with them and around two or three shots for each product, very consistent and have a polaris flashmeter too (essential) I have softboxes but prefer umbrellas due to the softboxes are a pain to put up and down where the umbrellas are much quicker.

On Canon theres the option of ISO 50 to drop power also

oshead

kelly1 wrote: »

OK, this looks good...

I go for the the Dlite 2/4 umbrella kit (€545) and an 18cm reflector with 30deg grid (€49) totaling €594. And do the swap with you for the softbox.

vs

The Dlite 2 SB kit for €579 or the Dlite 4 SB kit for €669.

I could use the 18cm reflector/grid for lightining the background or hairlights.

Sounds ok?

Yeah, sounds good. The softboxes I have are 66cm Elinchrom Portalites. The one that comes with the to-go kit. I'm definitely up for a swap.

On another note. If you have any small flashes you could make a diy snoot and grid. I use them for hairlight and general spots. I made a couple and they work really well. Another thing you could try for softer hairlight is a softbox strip light.

PopeBuckfastXVI wrote: »

Dave,

Would you say the 'chroms would stand up to prolonged usage - say 100-150 cycles in 90 minutes at a time?

Edit: Sorry - I see you're not using the d-lites, maybe anyone else with experience of them could comment?

Thanks!

Elinchrom are a quality make. They would be made for that kind of abuse. Though my gear is pro entry level, they easily handle that type of load and more. If the d-lites couldn't handle that i'd be very surprised.

mrboswell

oshead wrote: »

I have a pair of BXRi 500s and find them to be way too powerful for a home studio. I never go to full power with them. I've resorted to buying sheets of 3 stop ND gels to try and reduce the light. Other wise all my studio shots start at about f8 @ ISO 100. OK for group shots but if you want to get a shallow DoF you need less power. Many a time I just leave them in the bag and use my small flashes.

Oh, and by the way, get a meter.

Thats interesting Dave as I was just about to get that kit.

Would the umbrella allow you to spill more light and let you drop the aperture?

What do you think you would get now knowing the above?

oshead

mrboswell wrote: »

Thats interesting Dave as I was just about to get that kit.

Would the umbrella allow you to spill more light and let you drop the aperture?

Well.... the umbrella will send light off in every direction. Where you'd loose out in the intensity of the light, you'd probably get back with bounce from ceilings, walls and floors. At a guess i'd say not really too much.

mrboswell wrote: »

What do you think you would get now knowing the above?

Knowing the relative power values of the above systems, If I were to get a system for a small home studio then I'd go for the 2/4 kit. Simply for the extra stop range. I do more events more than anything else. So I need a little extra kick and reliability for that. For the bit of house work I get, I've been considering getting the 2/4 kit and as backup for the BXRi's. But right now I'm trying to save for some new glass.

mrboswell

oshead wrote: »

Well.... the umbrella will send light off in every direction. Where you'd loose out in the intensity of the light, you'd probably get back with bounce from ceilings, walls and floors. At a guess i'd say not really too much.

Knowing the relative power values of the above systems, If I were to get a system for a small home studio then I'd go for the 2/4 kit. Simply for the extra stop range. I do more events more than anything else. So I need a little extra kick and reliability for that. For the bit of house work I get, I've been considering getting the 2/4 kit and as backup for the BXRi's. But right now I'm trying to save for some new glass.

I hear ya - I'm saving for a mark 4 as I have all the glass I need.

In the mean time I'm ready to get lights but I didn't think the were that powerful - seems surprising that you can't drop the power right down. Shooting at iso won't make much difference so.

Will have to have a rethink about what to go for...

oshead

I just did a little test. Powered on the light and attached the 66cm portalite softbox with diffusion cover. Set the power to the lowest setting and using a Sekonic L-358 took a reading at 1 meter, ISO 100. The aperture returned is f8. The meter reads in ⅓ steps. So the accuracy is not 100% but good enough for this test. I upped the power of the lights to the max and took a similar reading, f29. That's almost a 5 stop range.

Although tests would need to be carried out on the D-lite 2/4 system. You could well expect the 200 to give a reading @ 1 meter and ISO 100, somewhere between f4 to f5.6 at it's lowest setting.

Borderfox

ISO 50?

oshead

Yeah keith. I got that earlier. I've a 5dmkII and it goes to 50 but if the lads are using a nikon, i believe 200 is the lowest, but I could be wrong. And not all Canons go to 50. Still, No matter. From the numbers I gave above you can work out what you might expect at any setting. So the home studio, with low ceilings and not too much space to work with I find the BXRi 500 just a little too powerful, especially when I try to open up the lens a little.

Fajitas!

Tbh, the 50iso is only one stop, and it's not a native ISO either, the camera is still shooting at 100iso and reducing the ISO in camera - Same as the extended range on the higher ISO's. It's also known to lose highlight detail.

oshead

I agree with you Al. The results over on the DxO site for the 5D MkII seem to suggest this. On the lower end anyway.

Fajitas!

It's not just the 5DmkII, nor is it just Canon, nor is it just 50iso, any non native ISO's can be a bit funny. 250, 640, 1000, 1200 etc.

oshead

I get ya, it's more likely to go up accurately in steps rather than a gradual em... stepless scale.

Hugh_C

oshead wrote: »

I've resorted to buying sheets of 3 stop ND gels to try and reduce the light.

Snip

Oh, and by the way, get a meter.

As a matter of interest Dave, where do you get the ND gels? I use one or two Bowens 500 heads and find them over-powered for a lot of the studio stuff I do. I'm a f/5.6 man myself And also Nikon so I work at ISO200.

As regards the meter, I bought one a couple if years ago and it has pretty much stayed in the pouch ever since. Barely ever use it. Convince me why I should

kelly1

Hugh_C wrote: »

As regards the meter, I bought one a couple if years ago and it has pretty much stayed in the pouch ever since. Barely ever use it. Convince me why I should

So how do you get the exposure right? It's OK if you never move your lights or change your settings.

I'm very inexperienced in doing portraits, but I've found it's important to get the exposure for b/w portraits just right. Just means less PP. I would imagine a meter is important when using a mobile setup.

oshead

Hugh_C wrote: »

As a matter of interest Dave, where do you get the ND gels? I use one or two Bowens 500 heads and find them over-powered for a lot of the studio stuff I do. I'm a f/5.6 man myself And also Nikon so I work at ISO200.

Hugh, you can get the gels in 2x4 sheets from the Stage Lighting Centre, 12 Brunswick Place, Dublin 2. Tel (01) 677 3044.

Check in the Lee Filters swatch book. #209 is .3 ND -1 stop, #210 is .6 ND -2 stops and #211 is .9 ND -3 stops. I use mostly the .9 ND one with Velcro attached to the inside of a 3'x4' softbox near the baffle. Works a treat. I've also got one inside a strip light which I use for hairlight.

Hugh_C wrote: »

As regards the meter, I bought one a couple if years ago and it has pretty much stayed in the pouch ever since. Barely ever use it. Convince me why I should

As far as using a light meter is concerned, for me, essential is probably to strong a word but it is very important. In my head I work using numbers as reference points to keep me on track. Weather I'm measuring light or altering something in photoshop. I do my best to get the numbers that I think are right and depend on luck or mistakes for artistic inspiration and flare. I'm perfectly happy chimping the back of the camera if need be, but I find the meter is more accurate, faster and less work. Plus it looks better, in a purely superficial way of course, when using it to take a reading beside a punters face and the back of their heads etc...

Hugh_C

kelly1 wrote: »

So how do you get the exposure right? It's OK if you never move your lights or change your settings.

I'm very inexperienced in doing portraits, but I've found it's important to get the exposure for b/w portraits just right. Just means less PP. I would imagine a meter is important when using a mobile setup.

Not sure, I generally try to squeeze 2 looks out of the one light position by using different distances to the subject and also a silver or white reflector and I set the aperture by experience. I also use a 50mm f/1.4 mostly, so no messing about with zoom lenses. I trust my knowledge of histograms

Fionn

@kelly1 - i've got three 400s and a polaris probably better to have a little extra power when its needed than a 200 w set.
a meter is going to save you lots of time rather than trial and error,
once you set up and get your exposures right, you can measure out the distance with string so you know the distance to place your lights in a new setup