Boudjellal accusing ERC of fixing

twinytwo

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/rugby/boudjellal-accuses-erc-offixing-143257.html


sorry for some reason i cant paste the text

COLOURFUL Toulon president Mourad Boudjellal has accused European Rugby Cup Ltd (ERC) of fixing Sunday’s Heineken Cup semi-finals for the benefit of Pool 2 winners Leinster.



The controversial Toulon owner announced on Tuesday in La Provence that he had sent a letter to ERC asking for an explanation and proof of the draw, which he claimed had not been shown on French television.

That lack of tv coverage sparked rumours in France the draw was done behind closed doors, although it is believed neither Boudjellal nor any of the other French club bosses were aware the draw was live on Sky.

"By chance, the province of Leinster will not only be home for their quarter final, which they won sportively, but for the semi-final too," said the outspoken Toulon boss.

"Is it a coincidence ERC headquarters are to be found in Dublin? On behalf of Toulon and all the other French clubs we are prepared to shine a light as to why the draw was conducted in secret. That’s why we did what we did (in sending the letter). We’re ready to do everything necessary."

An ERC spokesperson told La Provence the clubs concerned were informed the draw would be broadcasted live on the British channel ‘Sky Sports’ and on the ERC website.

"(France 2 show) Stade 2 was then to transmit a delayed broadcast of the draw as was the case. Last year the draw of the semi-finals appeared on Stade 2 as the final was in Paris."

Meanwhile, Northampton Saints confirmed they will play their Heineken Cup quarter-final against Ulster at stadium:mk. The Saints had hoped to keep the fixture at their Franklin’s Gardens home, but the ground’s 13,591 capacity falls below European Rugby Cup’s 15,000 threshold for a last-eight tie.

The tournament organisers were unwilling to give special dispensation and, as expected, Northampton have now officially confirmed the move. Chief executive Allan Robson revealed the Aviva Premiership club had looked at the feasibility of temporarily increasing the capacity of their regular home, but with such a solution not being enough to bring it up to 15,000 the decision was taken to move to the Milton Keynes ground, which holds 21,500.

Robson was also critical of the attitude of the local council’s leadership towards the club’s plans to increase the capacity; Saints hoped to use money supermarket retailer ASDA would have paid for a store on an expanded site.

Read more: http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/rugby/boudjellal-accuses-erc-offixing-143257.html#ixzz1C9ZapvCz

Podge_irl

Deleted User wrote: »

"By chance, the province of Leinster will not only be home for their quarter final, which they won sportively, but for the semi-final too," said the outspoken Toulon boss.

"Is it a coincidence ERC headquarters are to be found in Dublin?]

Yes.

Seriously, did no one just tell him to look at what happened last year?

crisco10

Podge_irl wrote: »

Yes.

Seriously, did no one just tell him to look at what happened last year?

Or turn on Sky Sports this year!!

buck65

Good news for Ulster btw. Franklin Gardens was worth at least 10 points for the Saints such is their good form there.

murphym7

Another clownish comment from the man. I think M O' leary and Mourad Boudjellal went to the same PR school.

Proves the well known phrase "More money than sense".

toomevara

buck65 wrote: »

Good news for Ulster btw. Franklin Gardens was worth at least 10 points for the Saints such is their good form there.

QFT. This is the real controversy here. What is the point of striving to obtain a home QF and all the benefits thereof if its going to be arbitrarily taken away from you by the ERC? Illogical and unfair. This is most certainly not a home game for the saints.

tolosenc

Just a little bit of research might have been a good thing on this one...

sock puppet

toomevara wrote: »

QFT. This is the real controversy here. What is the point of striving to obtain a home QF and all the benefits thereof if its going to be arbitrarily taken away from you by the ERC? Illogical and unfair. This is most certainly not a home game for the saints.

To be fair Northampton knew this was the case all along no?

CIARAN_BOYLE

toomevara wrote: »

QFT. This is the real controversy here. What is the point of striving to obtain a home QF and all the benefits thereof if its going to be arbitrarily taken away from you by the ERC? Illogical and unfair. This is most certainly not a home game for the saints.

Its not arbitrary, its a written rule that you have to have a certain size stadium to play a QF in it.

Riskymove

I dont know why we are mocking this guy.....we have plenty of people calling fix when french teams get a favorable draw

glad to see we dont have a monpoly on conspiracy theorists

BoarHunter

It certainly emphasize that this process is bad and needs to be changed. why not calling the venues at the same time than the group draw ?

Let's say for exemple a draw saying winner of Quarter final 1,2,3 or 4 will play at home their semi ... would lift the doubt

Ciaran-Irl

Actually, the system of a draw should be completely abandoned. They could make it so that the teams that score the most tries when in winning the quarter finals get the home semi, and if tied, the most points scored gets the home semi. That favours the teams that performed best in the pool stages.

Edit: They should also change the way the best placed runner up places get divided, to avoid the groups with the Italian teams always having the best draw. They could discount results against the bottom placed team, for example.

Riskymove

I agree, the seeding system should carry through to semis to reward actual results and effort not chance

davidpfitz

Ciaran-Irl wrote: »

to avoid the groups with the Italian teams always having the best draw. They could discount results against the bottom placed team, for example.

I've been championing this idea for a long time. I believe they used to do this in the European Cup (soccer) before it became the Champions League.

Riskymove

davidpfitz wrote: »

I've been championing this idea for a long time. I believe they used to do this in the European Cup (soccer) before it became the Champions League.

a variation is done in International qualifying soccer groups..e.g. european world cup qualifying groups

CIARAN_BOYLE

Why not say the same about Northampton, it has as much truth in it, Northampton have the potential to have two home matches like Leinster.

Podge_irl

Riskymove wrote: »

I dont know why we are mocking this guy.....we have plenty of people calling fix when french teams get a favorable draw

I mock them too.

twinytwo

Riskymove wrote: »

a variation is done in International qualifying soccer groups..e.g. european world cup qualifying groups

lol until they dont like the way its looking and chance the rules for qualification:P

[Jackass]

Well, I don't think he's wrong about the fixing of the draw. It has long been suspected and contested, even with this "live draw" format.

It seems, ever since 2003 and a half empty Lansdowne Road watched a Toulouse v Perpingan bore-fest final, they've done everything to ensure the "right" teams reach the final..

This year two French teams is worth nothing to them and an English and Irish final would be most lucrative.

Leinster or Leicester get home path to final, as do Northampton or Ulster.

Last year an all French final in Paris would have been superb for the competitions standing in France vs the T14 and generate massive publicity, hype and revenue. Toulouse and Biarritz get home path to final.

Every year you trace back, there's a home path for the best teams to suit each venue.

It could be mass paranoia, but I think there's some legitimacey to the thereoy that ERC draws are "influenced".

Great news for Ulster. I've a feeling they're going to topple Northampton. This just re-enforces that.

CatFromHue

i dunno i think this is like "a beautiful mind" where people are seeing patterns that aren't there.

the proof for the draw being rigged is too light weight for me anyway

the year munster first one it, the final was in wales. below are the semi final listings

SEMI-FINAL 1 Biarritz Olympique or Sale Sharks v Leicester Tigers or Bath Rugby

SEMI-FINAL 2 Toulouse or Leinster v Munster or Perpignan
http://www.ercrugby.com/eng/6000.php

leinster were in no way fancied to beat toulouse in toulouse. so if it had gone to form it would have been 2 semi finals in france for the final in wales.

JustinDee

BoarHunter wrote: »

It certainly emphasize that this process is bad and needs to be changed. why not calling the venues at the same time than the group draw ?

Let's say for exemple a draw saying winner of Quarter final 1,2,3 or 4 will play at home their semi ... would lift the doubt

There's no doubt to lift.
Draw is done live on TV. If his own Foreign Legion team had finished in top 4, we wouldn't be reading anything of this club owner in a sook.

durkadurka

I agree the semi final process sucks but this guys criticisms are ridiculous. Either agree a venue at neutral ground a la fa cup or grant it to the top seeded team.

danthefan

I heard an interview with Donal Lenihan around this time last year, he said he has been involved in the draw before and it is not fixed in any way, shape or form.

durkadurka

He would say that, wouldn't he? Can you not see it you fools? It's a conspiracy dammit. Witnesses being silenced or bought off.

We're through the looking glass here. I think we should get Jim Corr on the case. Only he can provide the answers.

its_phil

The only rugby conspiracy theory in ireland is the one about fionn carr and declan kidney's wife...:D

The Rooster

Absolute and utter nonsense to suggest the draw is fixed.

There is not a hope in hell men like Ieuan Evans and Donal Lenihan would be party to such cheating, lying and dishonesty.

(plus there's still a chance of an All France final - if they were fixing it they would have ensured that wouldnt happen, England/Ireland v France would still be a certain sell out).

Evans should sue that mofo who owns Toulon.

toomevara

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Its not arbitrary, its a written rule that you have to have a certain size stadium to play a QF in it.

Indeed, I realise its a written rule, but the figure of 15/16,000 is entirely arbitrary. I'd like to see the rationale behind the number.

[Jackass]

toomevara wrote: »

Indeed, I realise its a written rule, but the figure of 15/16,000 is entirely arbitrary. I'd like to see the rationale behind the number.

vkid

With everything that has gone on in this country in the last few years, i really wouldnt be surprised.
Not saying its true but it really wouldnt surprise me. Money makes people do things you wouldnt expect.

inforfun

Easy solution to the Home/Away drawing issue.
If one year team A draws at home to team B, the next time those teams are drawn against each other, team B get the home advantage. The 3rd time, back for team A to play at home again and so on.

crisco10

Or they could take a leaf from the Magners League/S15/AP. For the semi finals, the team who finished higher in the seeding table after the group stages is at home.

So, for example, this year IF Leinster beat Leicester and Toulouse win, Leinster would be at home. But If Leicester and Toulouse win, Toulouse would be at home.

Seems a fair way to reward a good group performance.

Even easier solution. The two qf winners with the highest points total get home semis.

Obviously some messing around might be needed to account for groups with Italian teams/ minnows.

JustinDee

vkid wrote: »

With everything that has gone on in this country in the last few years, i really wouldnt be surprised.
Not saying its true but it really wouldnt surprise me. Money makes people do things you wouldnt expect.

It isn't true.

durkadurka

Make it group performance based, but discount peformanced against team in fourth place in each group, to remove the aironi factor.

BoarHunter

durkadurka wrote: »

Make it group performance based, but discount peformanced against team in fourth place in each group, to remove the aironi factor.

would be even better for Biarritz

twinytwo

[Jackass] wrote: »

Well, I don't think he's wrong about the fixing of the draw. It has long been suspected and contested, even with this "live draw" format.

It seems, ever since 2003 and a half empty Lansdowne Road watched a Toulouse v Perpingan bore-fest final, they've done everything to ensure the "right" teams reach the final..

This year two French teams is worth nothing to them and an English and Irish final would be most lucrative.

Leinster or Leicester get home path to final, as do Northampton or Ulster.

Last year an all French final in Paris would have been superb for the competitions standing in France vs the T14 and generate massive publicity, hype and revenue. Toulouse and Biarritz get home path to final.

Every year you trace back, there's a home path for the best teams to suit each venue.

It could be mass paranoia, but I think there's some legitimacey to the thereoy that ERC draws are "influenced".

Great news for Ulster. I've a feeling they're going to topple Northampton. This just re-enforces that.

the whole money theory has to be wrong... we know munster can nearly fill out stadiums by themselves.. and a munster leinster final you could prob fill 2 stadiums

durkadurka

BoarHunter wrote: »

would be even better for Biarritz

how on earth did they lose to aironi?

tolosenc

Make it like the NHL playoffs. Fairest solution IMO.

BoarHunter

I just keep my idea of getting rid of the group stage all together and make it a 16 team cup home & away

Podge_irl

BoarHunter wrote: »

I just keep my idea of getting rid of the group stage all together and make it a 16 team cup home & away

I don't think home & away aggregate fixtures work in rugby.

Besides the group stages are fascinating.

Podge_irl

tolosenc wrote: »

Make it like the NHL playoffs. Fairest solution IMO.

Meaning?

tolosenc

Podge_irl wrote: »

Meaning?

Apologies, sometimes forget that not everyone is as in to hockey as I am!

Basically, in the last 8 it goes according to how you finished in the regualr season (ie pool stage), with the higher ranked team at home

1 at home to 8
2 at home to 7
3 at home to 6
4 at home to 5

Say that 1, 7, 6 and 4 win their QFs, then the semis would look like

1 at home to 7
4 at home to 6

The final is on a neutral venue, so after that it's irrelevant.

JustinDee

tolosenc wrote: »

Make it like the NHL playoffs. Fairest solution IMO.

There's nothing wrong with it the way it is. It already makes the pool stages competitive.
Boujellal has some neck claiming to act on behalf of French rugby or French clubs. He barely hires enough French-qualified players for a Sevens bench!

tolosenc

tolosenc wrote: »

Apologies, sometimes forget that not everyone is as in to hockey as I am!

Basically, in the last 8 it goes according to how you finished in the regualr season (ie pool stage), with the higher ranked team at home

1 at home to 8
2 at home to 7
3 at home to 6
4 at home to 5

Say that 1, 7, 6 and 4 win their QFs, then the semis would look like

1 at home to 7
4 at home to 6

The final is on a neutral venue, so after that it's irrelevant.

Actually, as Leinster and Northampton have home routes to the final, this is how it is this year, provided they both make the final.

twinytwo

Really...Home semis dont really matter... the best team usually ends up winning the HC anyway... munster to my knowledge have only ever gotten a HQ and HS once* and they have done alot better than most of the years.

(*09 dosent count Corke park is not thomond)

Podge_irl

twinytwo wrote: »

Really...Home semis dont really matter... the best team usually ends up winning the HC anyway... munster to my knowledge have only ever gotten a HQ and HS once* and they have done alot better than most of the years.

(*09 dosent count Corke park is not thomond)

It does count and Munster are never going to be playing a semi in Thomond.

And of course it matters. Leinster - Toulouse is an entirely different prospect to Toulouse - Leinster.

twinytwo

Podge_irl wrote: »

It does count and Munster are never going to be playing a semi in Thomond.

And of course it matters. Leinster - Toulouse is an entirely different prospect to Toulouse - Leinster.

well then it is not a "home" semi as no "advantage" is gained. If (taking your example of toulouse/leinster) leinster are good enough to win and this year they are prob the best team in it and prob will win weather they had a home semi or not. Take 07/08 Munster won in Gloucester, they won in Coventry and they won in cardiff.in 08/09 Leisnter won in twicks, won in Croker and won in murreyfield.

JustinDee

twinytwo wrote: »

well then it is not a "home" semi as no "advantage" is gained. If (taking your example of toulouse/leinster) leinster are good enough to win and this year they are prob the best team in it and prob will win weather they had a home semi or not. Take 07/08 Munster won in Gloucester, they won in Coventry and they won in cardiff.in 08/09 Leisnter won in twicks, won in Croker and won in murreyfield.

Its up to the province where they would wish to play a play-off.
There is plenty of "advantage gained" by Munster, if their branch so wished, playing their game at the Aviva. The ticket allocation is divided proportionally the same. This could mean 4:1 ratio of home fans to visiting.

sock puppet

twinytwo wrote: »

well then it is not a "home" semi as no "advantage" is gained. If (taking your example of toulouse/leinster) leinster are good enough to win and this year they are prob the best team in it and prob will win weather they had a home semi or not. Take 07/08 Munster won in Gloucester, they won in Coventry and they won in cardiff.in 08/09 Leisnter won in twicks, won in Croker and won in murreyfield.

It's a bigger advantage for some I suppose. Leinster and Toulouse have alternative stadiums in the same city as their own. Munster don't have that luxury.