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Too many radio stations?

  • 26-01-2011 2:30pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24


    Flicking through the stations on the car radio the other day, I realised that there really is an awful lot of stations available in the Dublin area, most of them overlapping each other in terms of content.

    Do people think that there is just too many stations out there? My opinion is that with so many of them, very few radio stations can be profitable. If they are making no money, how can they have any cash to invest in decent programming?

    One of the lads in the office reckons that if the BAI culled some of the licences, the actual content, in terms of quality and plurality, would improve. He reckons that too many licences, somehow, reduces choice for listeners, because they all end up churning out the same old tripe, same old playlists, same old types of programmes.... some of which is of questionable quality.

    I don't know whether he is right or not, but there does seem to be too many stations for such a small country. Does the sheer amount of them affect the quality of content, in your opinion?


Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,119 ✭✭✭Mongarra


    I agree there are too many similar stations and I do not live in Dublin.

    Even RTÉ 1 night-time programmes between 2.00 and 5.30 are repeats every night and some evening mid-week programmes are repeated in late-night weekend slots.

    Also, I think most local stations have music programmes after, say, 7.00 pm.

    I am not sure that reducing the number of licences would increase the quality. I would have thought that it is competition for listeners that improves the quality of programming.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    Too many stations and they may chase the same lowset common denominator.

    UK was best probably for TV before "five" was launched.

    In 1983 was my first visit to US Cable TV. 20+ stations and none good and all similar.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,818 ✭✭✭Minstrel27


    We dont have enough radio stations down here in Waterford.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,503 ✭✭✭adamski8


    defo too many in dublin, not enough in the rest of the country!


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I think this is what is wrong with Irish radio and why so many stations sound the same.

    I've been listening to some American radio lately and have come across some stations that play only music with some ads thrown in, no news, sports or DJs. Obviously that wouldn't be allowed in Ireland under current BAI rules.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,018 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    Meh dont think there can ever be too many radio stations

    But there definitely too many stations carrying similar programming. The "regulator" doesnt do enough to enforce diversity of programming (and ownership) compared to the amount of regulation applied to other aspects of stations operations and the 20% news quota and minimum speech ratios is a ridiculous imposition which forces stations to cut back in other areas.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24 Horsebox_twenty


    Good point, but what can the regulator really do that it isn't doing already? Does it do audits of content or anything?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 88,972 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    Minstrel27 wrote: »
    We dont have enough radio stations down here in Waterford.

    Why, we have Beat FM and WLR. What more could more need?* ;)























    *Zenith Classic Rock! :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    You have RTE also! All 10 of them!!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,818 ✭✭✭Minstrel27


    watty wrote: »
    You have RTE also! All 10 of them!!

    All 10 of them are not available via radio.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,018 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    Good point, but what can the regulator really do that it isn't doing already? Does it do audits of content or anything?

    Regulators in other countries have (both now and in the past) agreed formats with radio stations at the licensing stage and then regularly monitored the stations output to enforce compliance.

    The UK ILR stations had their programme content very heavily regulated in the 1970's and early 80's although TBH they did go to the other extreme and overdo it.

    Even in the 1990's there were stations in the UK fined for excessive speech content. (In Ireland they get penalised for not talking enough)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    The problem with the Dublin Radio stations is that they have been aloaud by the Regulator the BAI to become LCD radio services and thus becoming more and more like one another.

    Was ROCK FM 104 supposed to be a rock service?
    Spin 103 was definitely supposed to be a dance music station, not were playing the last 3 hits you hear in the last 15 mins.
    Country Mix was supposed to be country now its more main stream as Sunshine Radio
    4FM is now aiming at a younger audience then it originally set out to.
    While Lite or Q or whatever is also getting younger.
    TodayFM just another 2FM while 2FM scurries to copy every other Dublin station.

    It's not that they all start out as carbon copies its that they don't let themselves gain an audience. The only age group that need listen are those of us aged 15 to 45.

    And the 20% News and CA is usually cheap chat or sourced from a News Group.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 770 ✭✭✭sgb


    Get a wi-fi Roberts radio you are garanteeed to find radio stations to suit your taste. I did and am absolutely delighted with it


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,293 ✭✭✭Fuzzy Clam


    Elmo wrote: »
    The problem with the Dublin Radio stations is that they have been aloaud by the Regulator the BAI to become LCD radio services and thus becoming more and more like one another.

    Was ROCK FM 104 supposed to be a rock service?
    Spin 103 was definitely supposed to be a dance music station
    Country Mix was supposed to be country now its more main stream as Sunshine Radio
    4FM is now aiming at a younger audience then it originally set out to.
    While Lite or Q or whatever is also getting younger.
    Rock 104 was simply another name for Capitol Radio and then FM104. Not a rock licence as such.

    Originally the licence advertised for the station that is Spin was for a dance station but this was altered to a youth station. So no, Spin was never meant to be a dance station. Common mistake.
    The same mistake is often made by people who think that Radio 2 is meant to be a youth station.

    Country/Country Mix/Sunshine has never really been a country station under any name and that is wrong. It should be.

    As someone who sits into the 4FM/Q102 demo, I feel that they are both aiming MORE at their intended age group now. I think they were getting it wrong before and are now getting it right.

    Other than that, i agree with you.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    sgb wrote: »
    Get a wi-fi Roberts radio you are garanteeed to find radio stations to suit your taste. I did and am absolutely delighted with it

    Online quality is often very poor though.

    Notebook, WiFi Phone, WiFi media player etc will also do more online TV & Radio than a Roberts.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    Fuzzy Clam wrote: »
    Rock 104 was simply another name for Capitol Radio and then FM104. Not a rock licence as such.

    Originally the licence advertised for the station that is Spin was for a dance station but this was altered to a youth station. So no, Spin was never meant to be a dance station. Common mistake.
    The same mistake is often made by people who think that Radio 2 is meant to be a youth station.

    Country/Country Mix/Sunshine has never really been a country station under any name and that is wrong. It should be.

    As someone who sits into the 4FM/Q102 demo, I feel that they are both aiming MORE at their intended age group now. I think they were getting it wrong before and are now getting it right.

    Other than that, i agree with you.


    The BAI are now letting 4FM aim at a over 45s market even though it was set up as as over 55s.

    Nice to see you argree with me and totally disagree :D

    Did the IRTC issue 2 similar licences to 98 and 104?
    The BCI changed their mind to youth before even giving out the licence shows how much the BCI regulate.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,293 ✭✭✭Fuzzy Clam


    I'm sure it was over 45's for 4FM all along. I remember when they 1st came on air, thinking that a lot of the music was poor for a station that, at the time, I nearly was old enough to listen to :o I'm not yet in my 50's.

    I think you're correct that the 104/98 licences are similar/the same but this doesn't exclude either station from playing more rock if they so wish.

    In the case of the Spin licence, I believe it was considered that a dance only format could have a short life so it was changed.
    There is nothing that I am aware of that prevents Spin from playing only dance music but at the end of the day, it's a commercial decision.

    The IRTC/BCI/BAI are a pile of cock when it come to licencing anyway.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    Fuzzy Clam wrote: »
    I'm sure it was over 45's for 4FM all along. I remember when they 1st came on air, thinking that a lot of the music was poor for a station that, at the time, I nearly was old enough to listen to :o I'm not yet in my 50's.

    No, the idea was proposed initally as an over 45s multicity music station but then BAI actually got some balls and asked for an over 55s multicity music station. The founding group have since sold the business and the new owner asked for a change. AFAIK the BAI expect 4FM to grow to 3% audience otherwise they will be put back to over 55s. Well they said something about 3%.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,293 ✭✭✭Fuzzy Clam


    In which case I stand corrected. :pac:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,178 ✭✭✭STB


    Elmo wrote: »
    The problem with the Dublin Radio stations is that they have been aloaud by the Regulator the BAI to become LCD radio services and thus becoming more and more like one another.

    Was ROCK FM 104 supposed to be a rock service?

    Spin 103 was definitely supposed to be a dance music station, not were playing the last 3 hits you hear in the last 15 mins.

    Country Mix was supposed to be country now its more main stream as Sunshine Radio

    4FM is now aiming at a younger audience then it originally set out to.
    While Lite or Q or whatever is also getting younger.

    TodayFM just another 2FM while 2FM scurries to copy every other Dublin station.

    It's not that they all start out as carbon copies its that they don't let themselves gain an audience. The only age group that need listen are those of us aged 15 to 45.

    And the 20% News and CA is usually cheap chat or sourced from a News Group.

    Its actually demographically driven. Most of the ILRs are. They arent tied down to a niche genre of music unless that is the licence they applied for (like Nova/Phantom/Country). Example from your list.

    "104" was and still is a station licenced for the 15-34 year old age group . After Mickey Joe left Capital they did go through an identity crisis with the Rock Buzz. Similarily 98 was and stillm is aimed at the 20-44 - they where Classic Hits 98fm at one time. These are simply branding exercises.

    Spin was never licensed as a dance station. It was effectively a knee jerk reaction towards a "licensed" Youth Station following the success of that pirate of O Sullivan/Brady's in the mid to late 90s who had recognised the population boom at that time and been a tromendous thorn in the side of 104. Spins licence is Hot Urban Contemporary (yeah I know) 15-34 age group. Dance music was dead by the time they came on.

    Dublins Country Mix is a niche station. 35+. Rebranded as Sunshine. "Country" turns people off.

    The 20% News/speech content requirement is filled by "cheap" talk programs. But people do listen and advertising rates are good - people no matter how dense like to have their say - its an Irish thing. It is not a simple hat tip to the BAI.

    The other thing about the 20% requirement it keeps wall to wall music and what you occasionally see referred to as the dumbing down of radio from occuring. That is meant to equal good quality radio.

    Put it this way, the biggest opponents to change in the status quo are the licence holders themselves! Why is that do you think ? Well if you know the answer to that then you will probably guess that these very same people will never embrace DAB for the very same reason.

    And special super derogations will never be allowed as they would all want a level playing pitch. You can just hear those liners, 50 songs in a row, DJ free etc

    The demographics do overlap though... yeah. Sometimes confusing. In Dublin its cut throat and business driven obviously. Every half a per cent counts. Its a deadly business. Business, business, business. Just ask the original lads from Phantom.

    Q102 are more 98 than 98 ever where. Today Fm is more 2fm than they were in the 80s.

    As far as I am aware I dont think 4fm got any special treatment when Blocker left. Otherwise the guys that are there are pretty much the same - money people with a few radio dudes common to Nova thrown in.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    STB wrote: »
    Its actually demographically driven.

    This is the problem. You could have 2 or 3 demographically driven radio stations.

    General Services:-
    104 - 15 - 35
    98 - 20 - 44
    4FM - 44 +

    The rest really need to be niche driven without demographics and the need for a 20% CA/News, perhaps just news on the hour.

    102 - Disco Era
    106.8 - Country Music
    NewsTalk - Talk Radio
    105.2 - Alternative Rock
    100 - Classic Rock
    103.8 - Modern Popular (Dance, Hip-Hop, RnB or whatever happens to be hip with the kids, because Rory with his Story isn't to cool for school).
    You could even have a Traditional/Folk service.

    And of course Community Radio.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    STB wrote: »
    Today Fm is more 2fm than they were in the 80s.

    Sometimes even 98fm. But remember when it was Century haha. Radio Ireland AKA we have no imagination so we are calling the service a translation of our competitors station Raidió Éireann!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,293 ✭✭✭Fuzzy Clam


    Elmo wrote: »
    But remember when it was Century haha. Radio Ireland AKA we have no imagination so we are calling the service a translation of our competitors station Raidió Éireann!

    Century Radio was a different station entirely. No connection to Radio Ireland/Today.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    Fuzzy Clam wrote: »
    Century Radio was a different station entirely. No connection to Radio Ireland/Today.

    I know I was being sarcastic because STB stated the 1980s rather then the 1990s.


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