Why work?

ilovesleep

Why work to support such corruption in our state?

I realise many people who have responsibilities like a mortgage and kids have too. And fair play to ye too. But for people with very little responsibilities - why work? This is the attitude now in my area from young people and young adults who doesnt have responsibilities. These people too would have been very proud. Now they are looking forward to moving in back home if they are not already at home and drawing the dole.

later12

Because you can earn more money than 25 euro per day (Dole money) if you work. Sometimes on Plant Elsewhere you can even earn 25 euro per hour, imagine that!

Scrambled egg

Well lets not be daft. If we all downed tools at the corruption and incompetence in this state, we would find ourselves in a much more dire and nonfunctional situation.

ei.sdraob

later10 wrote: »

Sometimes on Planet Elsewhere you can even earn 25 euro per hour, imagine that!

What that work out after direct taxes :P (top of head 40-45K salary?) and how little disposable income have left after other taxes (fuel,energy,vat,motor etc etc)

Dont dismiss the OP so quickly theres an interesting discussion here on similar theme, unfair and unpredictable taxation systems also result in people not bothering to start businesses by killing motivation.

DaMagooster

ilovesleep wrote: »

Why work to support such corruption in our state?

I realise many people who have responsibilities like a mortgage and kids have too. And fair play to ye too. But for people with very little responsibilities - why work? This is the attitude now in my area from young people and young adults who doesnt have responsibilities. These people too would have been very proud. Now they are looking forward to moving in back home if they are not already at home and drawing the dole.

Let me tell you this my friend there is nothing worse in this world than being on the dole. Anyone that says otherwise is talking rubbish. I am out of work not by choice and it is one of the most difficult things anyone can deal with...How could any one look forward to moving home getting €100-188 a week??

Sand

Why work to support such corruption in our state?

Pretty ironic statement. The idea of politicians and vested interests creaming it offends your morality so much that you decide to become a professional dole jockey as an act of principle?

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Tipp Man

Why work to pay ridiculous levels of social welfare and ridiculous public sector pay levels??

I ask myself the same question every payday

later12

Tipp Man wrote: »

Why work to pay ridiculous levels of social welfare and ridiculous public sector pay levels??

I ask myself the same question every payday

But presumably you keep on working, therefore what conclusion did you arrive at? Presumably you are better off than on the dole.

Not all things come down to money though. Many people work because they love their work, I am grateful to be able to say that I count myself among that number. i can safely say that if any social insurance that I might be entitled to suddenly paid a better rate than my pay, I would stay on in my employment. I'm not trying to beatify myself by the way, I'm just saying that there is more to work than money alone (although it matters) and some people enjoy the opportunity and the challenge that it brings - just like interacting on political forums, contributing to a political organisation, playing golf or throwing around a rugby ball, or whatever it is.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Cookie_Monster

so I can earn money to buy stuff I like.

Tea drinker

I wouldn't get too hung up on the state. Your choices are your own.
You can work for your own heath and good disposition, for more money or to meet women :-)
I wouldn't see stopping working as a s viable protest measure, striking yes. Leaving the country completely, yes. Many people (with families even) are finding the second option working well.

Ultimately, it's your life. Spend it in a spiral of depression and bitterness about what has been done, or make the best of YOUR shot.

Lapin

ilovesleep wrote: »

Why work?

Your username says it all. :rolleyes:

ISAW

later10 wrote: »

Because you can earn more money than 25 euro per day (Dole money) if you work. Sometimes on Plant Elsewhere you can even earn 25 euro per hour, imagine that!

i think the OP might mean "why work for money?"
I mean he listed some of the type of people who work but don't get paid for it e.g. parents.
Loads of people do voluntary work as well.
I think you fairly much hiot the nail on the head though for the main reason people do paid work. To get paid!

ISAW

DaMagooster wrote: »

Let me tell you this my friend there is nothing worse in this world than being on the dole. Anyone that says otherwise is talking rubbish. I am out of work not by choice and it is one of the most difficult things anyone can deal with...How could any one look forward to moving home getting €100-188 a week??

I know of a woman who has three kids for three different men and lives with none of them and gets no money from them. She lives in a seven bedroom house ( found it herself for a fairly low rent) which she is leaving this week because it is too big. The state pays the rent but heating bills are very high. She wants to get paid work but is told by FAS she will lose money if she does so. she has taken the job anyway and is moving to a smaller house. She isn't lazy in my estimation and would come from a totally different cultural background. She lived mainly outdoors or on the beach till she was eighteen.

she is certainly not unhappy because of the state supporting her but hes is not happy with that situation either. she wants to contribute to society.

p1akuw47h5r3it

ilovesleep wrote: »

Why work to support such corruption in our state?

I realise many people who have responsibilities like a mortgage and kids have too. And fair play to ye too. But for people with very little responsibilities - why work? This is the attitude now in my area from young people and young adults who doesnt have responsibilities. These people too would have been very proud. Now they are looking forward to moving in back home if they are not already at home and drawing the dole.

I work to support myself, to pay college fees and for a bit of pocket money. Not to support the state per se

ISAW

DanDan6592 wrote: »

I work to support myself, to pay college fees and for a bit of pocket money. Not to support the state per se

But you are happy for the state to support you by subsidising the rest of the college fees?

p1akuw47h5r3it

ISAW wrote: »

But you are happy for the state to support you by subsidising the rest of the college fees?

I believe that Students should have to contribute to some of the cost of tuition fees, say 3000 euro. This plus the reg fee, bringing the cost to 5000 euro for the year. The Goverment would subsidize the rest. Roughly 3000 euro for most level 8 courses.

I withdrew from my course this January after completing a year and a half. So I have to pay full tuition and reg fees for the first year of the course I want to do now. This is going to cost me about 8000 euro .Which, with the help of my mam, I can just about afford. Having to do this for four years in a row would not be feasible however and would price me out of college (and I live in relative comfort). However I feel that students should have to contribute more to their college education.

Dannyboy83

Now that my partner is back at work, it no longer makes sense for me to give up my job.

However, I recently turned down a job which was effectively a promotion as it would have been a lot of extra stress and responsibility for virtually zero reward when tax is factored in. (And I would still have been making a lower net salary than I did in 2008 on a lower gross salary!)

I never understood a lot of what the Americans came out with, as regards the ability to succeed if you're prepared to work hard, the freedom etc.
Starting to understand what they mean now tho!!

JustinDee

ilovesleep wrote: »

Why work to support such corruption in our state?

You're not working to support any govt. You're working to support you and yours.
If somebody who can work actually refuses to work or look for work, they are parasitical.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

whoopdedoo

Scrambled egg wrote: »

Well lets not be daft. If we all downed tools at the corruption and incompetence in this state, we would find ourselves in a much more dire and nonfunctional situation.

let's not be daft, if we all keep plugging along and not kicking up a fuss nothing will ever change!!

if there was a nationwide strike for a few days it would shake the sh1t out of the system and swing the power back towards the people

whoopdedoo

DaMagooster wrote: »

Let me tell you this my friend there is nothing worse in this world than being on the dole. Anyone that says otherwise is talking rubbish. I am out of work not by choice and it is one of the most difficult things anyone can deal with...How could any one look forward to moving home getting €100-188 a week??

I've definitely experienced worse fates than the dole in my time!

ISAW

DanDan6592 wrote: »

I believe that Students should have to contribute to some of the cost of tuition fees, say 3000 euro. This plus the reg fee, bringing the cost to 5000 euro for the year. The Goverment would subsidize the rest. Roughly 3000 euro for most level 8 courses.

I withdrew from my course this January after completing a year and a half. So I have to pay full tuition and reg fees for the first year of the course I want to do now. This is going to cost me about 8000 euro .Which, with the help of my mam, I can just about afford. Having to do this for four years in a row would not be feasible however and would price me out of college (and I live in relative comfort). However I feel that students should have to contribute more to their college education.

I'd have to agree with most of what you said. Where you draw the line is the issue. There are to many getting a free ride but Labour brought in "free fees" and don't want to admit they will axe them in government since they will lose middle class votes. It is now looking like they will get two seats in Dun Laoghaire. They will lose one of them just as quick when they make those with more money pay their own way. No smoke without salmon.

ISAW

whoopdedoo wrote: »

let's not be daft, if we all keep plugging along and not kicking up a fuss nothing will ever change!!

if there was a nationwide strike for a few days it would shake the sh1t out of the system and swing the power back towards the people

And if everyone adopted terrorism and assassinated all the members of the Oireachtas we would have a change of politicians and the people would have to elect totally different ones. So what? Pointless strikes and assassinations just bring change for the sake of change. That's a useless strategy.

ei.sdraob

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

I never understood a lot of what the Americans came out with, as regards the ability to succeed if you're prepared to work hard, the freedom etc.
Starting to understand what they mean now tho!!

You should visit them across the pond, nice and hard working people, who respect anyone who tries run a business and aspire to get ahead in life.

You would quickly realise how perverted the attitudes to working and entrepreneurship has become on this side of the Atlantic thanks to all sorts of socialist schemes.

While we fart about a smart economy, they actually have one and a fertile environment for business start-ups.

starbelgrade

I've read a lot of threads that the OP has started - mostly in After Hours. They are all pretty much along the same lines of this one... "the government's corrupt, what's the point?" etc

I think he / she is taking the term "economic depression" a bit too personally!

Then again, if one person feels like this, then there's bound to be many others. I imagine that there are many young people who are in college now or leaving college & facing what they see as being a bleak future.

They grew up in the Celtic Tiger era & probably expected life to be easy for them. I suspect that many of them even feel like they are entitled to this - a thriving job market, good wages etc.

But this is not the case & while I do have sympathy for them, I also think that they need to stop whinging about it - they have more options than most - to travel, to work etc & they need to realise that their future and the future of this country is in their hands.

If they plan to make a better job of it than previous generations then they need do something about it & stop expecting the good things in life to be handed to them on a plate.

Onthe3rdDay

The question is not why work but why make an extra effort. If you've no responsibility the motivation to work after you hit 30,000 euro is not very strong.

I know some people who work for themselves and can do so from almost any country. They're taking it easy this year and are making plans to get out of the place. Once they leave they'll return to their normal 55 hour weeks as they'll receive a lot more in their bank account.

Zambia

ilovesleep wrote: »

Why work to support such corruption in our state?

I realise many people who have responsibilities like a mortgage and kids have too. And fair play to ye too. But for people with very little responsibilities - why work? This is the attitude now in my area from young people and young adults who doesnt have responsibilities. These people too would have been very proud. Now they are looking forward to moving in back home if they are not already at home and drawing the dole.

Have you tried aisle 13 in B&Q , next to the cement there should be a can of

"Harden the F&&k Up"

starbelgrade

Zambia wrote: »

Have you tried aisle 13 in B&Q , next to the cement there should be a can of

"Harden the F&&k Up"

After Hours is that way ---->

p1akuw47h5r3it

starbelgrade wrote: »

I've read a lot of threads that the OP has started - mostly in After Hours. They are all pretty much along the same lines of this one... "the government's corrupt, what's the point?" etc

I think he / she is taking the term "economic depression" a bit too personally!

Then again, if one person feels like this, then there's bound to be many others. I imagine that there are many young people who are in college now or leaving college & facing what they see as being a bleak future.

They grew up in the Celtic Tiger era & probably expected life to be easy for them. I suspect that many of them even feel like they are entitled to this - a thriving job market, good wages etc.

But this is not the case & while I do have sympathy for them, I also think that they need to stop whinging about it - they have more options than most - to travel, to work etc & they need to realise that their future and the future of this country is in their hands.

If they plan to make a better job of it than previous generations then they need do something about it & stop expecting the good things in life to be handed to them on a plate.

This attitude really pisses me off. Not many people my age expects things to be easy for them. Most people my age realise that Ireland has been in a much worse state before. We dont expect to walk out of college into a 60000 euro a year job. We know life isn't easy and you have to work hard to create a decent standard of living for yourself.

It seems to me that you take a strange satisfaction that people around age now have it really tough, a sort of "oh I had it really hard therefore you should have it hard too".

I agree with you though when you say that we have more opportunities then most, not least to learn the mistakes of the present Government/generation* and not let it happen again.

*I don't mean this as a snide remark, I mean in terms of over-spending and not saving adequately etc.

p1akuw47h5r3it

DanDan6592 wrote: »

I believe that Students should have to contribute to some of the cost of tuition fees, say 3000 euro. This plus the reg fee, bringing the cost to 5000 euro for the year. The Goverment would subsidize the rest. Roughly 3000 euro for most level 8 courses.

ISAW wrote: »

I'd have to agree with most of what you said. Where you draw the line is the issue. There are to many getting a free ride but Labour brought in "free fees" and don't want to admit they will axe them in government since they will lose middle class votes. It is now looking like they will get two seats in Dun Laoghaire. They will lose one of them just as quick when they make those with more money pay their own way. No smoke without salmon.

I think FF,FG and Labour all want to axe free fees, however as you said are all afraid to admit it. I think if one of the parties had the balls to just admit this the others may follow suit. The electorate would then just have to accept this r else vote for a more minority party. I personally would admire the honesty. However as we know a lot of politicians seem to be more interested in votes as opposed to what they are actually going to do or what needs to be done.

I think my solution above would be the best as both the student and the goverment would both be contributing in a fairer manner to the current system.

starbelgrade

DanDan6592 wrote: »

This attitude really pisses me off. Not many people my age expects things to be easy for them. Most people my age realise that Ireland has been in a much worse state before. We dont expect to walk out of college into a 60000 euro a year job. We know life isn't easy and you have to work hard to create a decent standard of living for yourself.

It seems to me that you take a strange satisfaction that people around age now have it really tough, a sort of "oh I had it really hard therefore you should have it hard too".

I agree with you though when you say that we have more opportunities then most, not least to learn the mistakes of the present Government/generation* and not let it happen again.

*I don't mean this as a snide remark, I mean in terms of over-spending and not saving adequately etc.

I think you're reading far too much into what I posted & seem to be taking what I said personally.

My post was in response to the OP's statement that many people she knows are simply giving up by moving back home & drawing the dole. To me, these are the type of people who expect life to be an easy ride & at the first sign of any hassle, go for the easy & cosy option.

I've no doubt that they are in the minority & that most people of your generation will do what they have to do to get on with their lives.

I've also no doubt that most younger people are facing into harder times than they should probably have to, but believe me, I take no type of satisfaction from that. If anything, I am embarrased by the failings of my generation - most people my age paid no attention to current affairs or politics, let alone have any involvement in them until very recently.

I had no intention of pissing you off, but my attitude towards young people who give up so easily remains the same - though I doubt you are one of these people, so I see no real need for you to take offense.

p1akuw47h5r3it

starbelgrade wrote: »

I think you're reading far too much into what I posted & seem to be taking what I said personally.

My post was in response to the OP's statement that many people she knows are simply giving up by moving back home & drawing the dole. To me, these are the type of people who expect life to be an easy ride & at the first sign of any hassle, go for the easy & cosy option.
.

haha ok sorry for taking you up so wrong

ilovesleep

First of all i would like to say that i never got anything handed to me on a plate. Grew up on boderline poverty due to my father leaving my mother. We had no kitchen at home for years. I and some of my siblings had to work after school from a young age. We're only on our feet within the past two years. So to hell with that statement of poor little rich celtic tiger kids.

The attitude between us is why co-operate with whats happening. We had nothing to do with failing banks. I actually cannot understand how people are co-operating. I really cant.

JustinDee

ilovesleep wrote: »

The attitude between us is why co-operate with whats happening. We had nothing to do with failing banks. I actually cannot understand how people are co-operating. I really cant.

*sigh* It isn't "co-operation". Neither is refusing to work "protestation". The former is trying to earn a standard of living and the latter is lazy and wants everything for nothing.

tails_naf

DaMagooster wrote: »

Let me tell you this my friend there is nothing worse in this world than being on the dole. Anyone that says otherwise is talking rubbish. I am out of work not by choice and it is one of the most difficult things anyone can deal with...How could any one look forward to moving home getting €100-188 a week??

Seems to suit a lot of people - might not suit you, but you have some decency and sense of personal responsibility, but many havent, and our cushy system is generating more and more people who are happy to survive like that....

ilovesleep

JustinDee wrote: »

*sigh* It isn't "co-operation". Neither is refusing to work "protestation". The former is trying to earn a standard of living and the latter is lazy and wants everything for nothing.

We dont want to be made fools off which is exactly what our government is doing. We'd have no problem helping if we didnt have decades of banking dept upon us that we had no hands in the making of. The Irish taxpayers are fools and selfish greedy parasites that are willing to roll over in banking dept and take it all while at the same time kicking other irish human beings that are down.

starbelgrade

ilovesleep wrote: »

The Irish taxpayers are fools and selfish greedy parasites that are willing to roll over in banking dept and take it all while at the same time kicking other irish human beings that are down.

The Irish taxpayers have little or no choice where their tax dollars go - be it to bail out banks or for any other purpose.

How you seem to conclude that it makes them selfish, greedy parasites is beyond me entirely.

I find your post baffling in the extreme.

Tea drinker

ilovesleep wrote: »

The Irish taxpayers are fools and selfish greedy parasites that are willing to roll over in banking dept and take it all while at the same time kicking other irish human beings that are down.

This coming from you, who is debating whether or not to work?
What have you done to rectify Irelands position?

ilovesleep

Tea drinker wrote: »

This coming from you, who is debating whether or not to work?
What have you done to rectify Irelands position?

What have you done aside from rolling around in all the abuse?

ArphaRima

What kind of a protest is capitulation?

Surely good defiance and good protest would be to vote for better leadership. It's not going to change what happened but it will ensure the future is in better hands.

I have emigrated, and stand to earn far more abroad than I would in Ireland at my stage in my career. My skillset means I can demand a good wage however. I will return to Ireland in a decade or two though. I dont want to come back to a failed country with everyone resigned to that failure.
Competence from our leadership and a healthy determined ambition in the people will turn this around.

What I would like to see is Irish people taking control of their own destiny. Be that at the polling booth, in the streets, or just through plain hard work and ambition. What is most definitely not the right answer is what the OP proposes.

To directly address the OP: Take responsibility for yourself rather than forcing everyone else to do so.
Upskill. Go back to college. Learn a language. Emigrate. Do something to improve yourself. Dont just wallow in loathsome self-pity.

ilovesleep

@Fluffer
Theres no protests and there wont ever be any. Indirect protests are the only way.

ArphaRima

Now you're just being infantile.
What part of taking your fellow citizen's handouts is going to bring change to a government?
The only thing I can predict your kind of protest bringing about is the reduction of that handout. All I see you getting yourself is a life of poverty. Lose/Lose.

Besides my post wasnt about protest. I may have used the word, but it was not in support of you. My post was about bettering yourself, and eventually in doing so bettering this nation. What you propose does quite the opposite.

yoshytoshy

It's funny that we're all connected via the internet to this website ,via various internet providers and we're all using electricity.

What a silly thread.

Zambia

fluffer wrote: »

My post was about bettering yourself, and eventually in doing so bettering this nation. What you propose does quite the opposite.

Nail on the head here.