Problems with running Oil UFH

Bernadette2011

Hi,

Looking for some advice on oil UFH. Since mid-late 2010 I have been renting an old house that has been newly renovated and has a newly installed Oil UFH system. I am having problems using the oil UFH since I moved in. Initially when on, only some floors in the house warmed up and this varied day to day with two rooms in particular never heating up. The installer took a look at the system and found a leak which was fixed and I noted some improvement but not a great amount. Also we asked the installer to check for air but were told there was none in the system. Over the really cold spell in Dec we kept the heat on 24/7 on advice and never touched the settings (40 degrees, max pump pressure). The place warmed up but no two days were the same in that a room that was warm one day was not so warm (or even cold) the next. On checking the oil tank regularly I was shocked to find that we were using 100L oil a week in this period! Also the thermostats have always been set to 20 degrees in every room and they struggle to meet this.

Since the outside temperatures have increased we are using the Oil UFH at intervals instead of 24/7, i.e from 5-7am, 4 to 8pm and 1-2am (35 degrees at just over half the pump pressure). However we are still eating oil, 75L a week and I would not say the house is particularly warm at that. Previously to now I have only ever lived in houses with central heating through radiators therefore using this much oil for UFH seems really excessive. I have even checked the oil tank itself to see if there is a leak but found none.

From living in the house for the last few months I now have no doubt that insulation is a contributing factor to our problems, but wonder even with bad insulation if it’s feasible to burn this much oil in a week? From talking to people with oil UFH in there homes my problem is not normal, nor is the amount of oil I am using.

Bottom line is that we are looking for a new house to rent as we can't afford the oil running costs but in the mean time I'd appreciate any advice on a solution that could prevent us from having to move again so soon.

Many Thanks,
Bernadette

heinbloed

Bernadette wrote:

.....I'd appreciate any advice on a solution that could prevent us from having to move again so soon.

Ask for the consumption of energy of the 'new' place. In writing, signed.
On the EU continent an energy pass showing energy consumption for buildings is state of the art, not mandatory but available from energy advisors. Not to be compared with the BER in Ireland, an exercise for calculators but of little use to the buyer or tenant.
The EU allows for both, the BER being the cheap landlord's duty, the real thing, the consumption based energy pass, from the owner's/ builder's pocket.

It might be worth to get a heating engineer in who would beable to check the heating system for faults. If a faulty heating system is commissioned by an installer the consumer (the one who pays for the installer's work) has a come back.
This report of the heating engineer might safe you a few hundred €s when confronting the landlord with it.

An energy advisor would be able to put you into the right direction as well.

galwaytt

heinbloed wrote: »

Ask for the consumption of energy of the 'new' place. In writing, signed.

Good luck with that. Nobody would give you such a thing.

And here's but one reason why that can't work:
Mary & Tom have 4 kids and a Dog, and she's at home all day, they like the house at 19 Degree's. Tom works outdoors, for the Park Service.......They have the heating set at 'a', and go to bed at 11:15, rising at 7, their oil bill is 'x'.


Now, Ann & Paddy have no kids, and have bought the house off Mary & Tom, and commute 50 miles each way to work in the nearby City, where they work in the industrial estate in a Medicare factory. They get home around 18:30, heading off to bed at 22:30 or so, and get up at 06:00. The house is unoccupied during the day, and they like their house, like their workplace, 20-21 degree's. They have the heating set at 'b' and consume 'y' oil.

And you want someone to guarantee in writing, in old house, that their oil bills will be equal ?

Never going to happen.

heinbloed

Well, galwaytt, it's done since many decades. Contact the PHI or a civil engineer about the history of energy balances in the building industry.

From 2013 it's a legal requirement for the entire EU. For DHW from 6/2011, for the entire EU that is. Well, the usual late comers ..... will not make it, as usual. But the standards are set. It's up to the consumer not to pay for grandads workmanship with tomorrows money.

Of course the EN standard is a standardised method. But energy consumption can be meassured. And a builder be brought to the courts if the protocolled energy usage doesn't match the standard.
Since this standard is a legal requirement. Already in some EU countries for the domestic market. And in most countries around the globe for commercial buildings.
A simple consumer issue.

The Irish comissioner wanted it like that, the EU comission was it that put the proposal on the table and the EU parliament has voted for it. Incl. all Irish MEPs present.

See

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getDoc.do?pubRef=-//EP//TEXT+TA+P6-TA-2009-0278+0+DOC+XML+V0//EN

Has no Irish building professional made any sugestions ? Nothing, no one, total surprise?
What are the architects and engineers associations good for, and their press organs ? What do plumbers (heating contractors) read ?
Well, every thing new needs a break pad to run it on our paths (smiley).

heinbloed

To highlight the urgency to adapt to I quote the document linked above, paragraph 8:

(8) It is necessary to lay down more concrete actions with a view to achieving the great unrealised potential for energy savings in buildings and reducing the large differences between Member States' results in this sector.

Be sure that the Continentals won't adapt to Irish/British standards !


And paragraph 10

(10) The energy performance of buildings should be calculated on the basis of a common methodology, with objective variables that take into account regional climatic differences , and that includes, in addition to thermal characteristics, other factors that play an increasingly important role such as heating, cooling and ventilation systems, heat recovery, zone control, application of renewable energy sources, passive heating and cooling elements, shading, indoor air-quality, adequate natural light measurements , insulation and lighting systems, monitoring and control systems and design of the building. The methodology for calculating energy performance should ║be based not only on the season in which heating is required, but should cover the annual energy performance of a building. That methodology should take into account existing European standards.

Taking into account DIN etc. that means.

The German architects organisation reports of hundreds of court cases where purchaser/builders are suing their architects. The first convictions are hefty, these offices have now trouble to get professional indemnity insurance.

So better prepare.

galwaytt

heinbloed wrote: »

Well, galwaytt, it's done since many decades. Contact the PHI or a civil engineer about the history of energy balances in the building industry.

Well Heinbloed - 1996 is not 'many decades' - it's one-and-a-half. That is, since PHI was formed.

From 2013 it's a legal requirement for the entire EU. For DHW from 6/2011, for the entire EU that is. Well, the usual late comers ..... will not make it, as usual. But the standards are set. It's up to the consumer not to pay for grandads workmanship with tomorrows money.

Ah yes, the good 'ol EU Directive...........considering that it could take....5, 10 years to transpose any such into Irish law, well, then............

And a builder be brought to the courts if the protocolled energy usage doesn't match the standard.
Since this standard is a legal requirement. Already in some EU countries for the domestic market. And in most countries around the globe for commercial buildings.
A simple consumer issue.

Great. And in the case -as of a great many on here - self build, whether official or black market, then, what, a self-builder is going to 'report' on himself ?

Has no Irish building professional made any sugestions ? Nothing, no one, total surprise?
What are the architects and engineers associations good for, and their press organs ? What do plumbers (heating contractors) read ?
Well, every thing new needs a break pad to run it on our paths (smiley).

It wouldn't surprise me if they have not -
Plumber's/Contractors reading EU directives - are you joking ? - half of them don't read the manual's of the equipment they're fitting......

But the point remains: for self-build, it is un-governable. Only if you do it under formal contract, which is a legal device. In which case it'll cost €€.

People vote with their wallets - and right now, EU Directives are a long way from the top of the list.