transfer saga

madred006

Hi , just looking for advice on options open to me please.
My son who is 14 looked to transfer to a club in our parish last year as hurling is his first love and his present club is not strong or indeed this year unable to field a team ,without amalgamation, and he again wants to transfer to a duel club within his parish but tells me if he is not allowed he will stop playing gaa and go to rugby .So I am eager to know what options are open to me if his transfer is refused as it is feeling of new club that this will be case ,any infromation greatly appreciated ,thanks .

largepants

OP I could be wrong but once its inside the parish I don't think there is much his present club can do. I am however open to correction.

hisholinessnb

Can you clarify, is he moving because his current club isn't strong OR because they can't field a team.

Are talking about a move just to be playing, or a move to win trophies at the expense of the smaller club?
It's important to distinguish the real reason for the move.

blackbelt

I would tend to believe the real issue would be fielding.I don't believe a transfer would take place if it is the former but in the case of the latter,I'd imagine an appeal to the county board would give you a strong case.

They certainly don't want to be losing players.

Clareman

If his club is unable to field a team in his age group he can transfer to another club, if there is another club in the same area that plays at a higher grade, he can transfer, but if his club has an amalgamation in place with another and they play at the same level then I would imagine it would be difficult to transfer.

If you could clarify the situation a bit clearer it would help.

madred006

Hi ,and thanks for quick replies , 1;we live in a town with 3 clubs all in one parish his club is not hurling but football only and he wants to transfer to club that has both codes present last year he was refused transfer and allowed play hurling with other club this year he says he wants to play both codes with one club only,he says most of his friends are involved with the club he wishes to transfer to.His present club is unable to field a team on its own and is joining up with 2 other clubs, he says he is fed up and wants to play with his friends and with the club where he resides ,again sorry for confusion and thanks again.

Clareman

This seems a difficult situation where a young lad could be lost to the game because of bureaucratic constraints. I would recommend speaking to someone on the committee of the club to see what can be done, whereas no club wants to lose a player none want to see someone give up the game.

Assuming that the new amalgamation with be playing at a lower level than the other team in the town I can't see how this can be blocked, for hurling only of course, will still have to have his club for football.

madred006

so what you are saying is that he will not be able to transfer to the one club for both codes ?If this is so he informs me he will stop playing which annoys me because without having to force him to play he loves the sport and just wants to unite under both codes as he feels that by playing fball for one club and hurling for another he is not full committed to any club . If this is refused is there a legal option available or would it be seen as too much?

hisholinessnb

But are you saying he is not happy to play hurling at one club and football at the other??

It doesn't really make sense to say he will leave for rugby if this is the case as you have said hurling is his "first love".
Seems a trivial reason to drop your "first love".
A better option would be to drop the football and stick with his favourite sport at one club rather that switch to a game which he does not prefer.
Or if he is prepared to play 2 sports, which he seems to be, why not play hurling and rugby?

I'm just thinking conspiracy theories here, not actually accusing anyone, but its always possible that the lack of hurling could be used as a smokescreen to join a more successful football team and the expense of the small club.

Also why is he in the original club if all his friends are in another club?
How did that happen in the first place?

Look I'm just playing devils advocate here but I have seen people come up with alternative excuses to move clubs before when truth be know they were just trying to go soccer style and move to a bigger club. Theres often more to the situation than meets the eye.

Either way, going legal is far over the top and won't get you anywhere.

madred006

Hi ,bob no theories on my side iv never been into gaa or see what attraction is tbh,but when your kid asks can he do something that is not a great crime in my eyes it sums up the organisation in my estimation that is willing to stop a kid playing hurling with one club to playfootball with 3 clubs and no hurling ,how ever what you say is a good option that he leaves his football club and just hurls with the other one .Thanks for all you replies .

Clareman

This would be a rule book nightmare and because of the age of the player involved it would need to be looked at on an individual basis, get in contact with the club he's with at the moment, if they won't do anything, get in contact with the club he wants to go to, if you still don't get anywhere get onto the county board.

rebel girl 15

6.1 exception (A) Player of a separately affiliated Hurling Club may play football with a separately affiliated Football Club, and vice versa, within County, subject to any restrictions provided in County Bye-Laws. is what your son was allowed play under last year.

6.3 Home Club within the County shall mean: The Club with which a player first legally participated in Club competition (under 12 or over), organised by the County Committee or one of its Sub-Committees, subject to that participation being at an age not more than two years younger than the designated age level of the competition

6.8 B transfer within county A County Bye-Law may confine membership of a Club to a Catchment Area, which may be a Parish. A Parish for the purpose of this Rule shall, subject to County boundaries, be the district under the jurisdiction of a Parish Priest or Administrator. A Catchment Area shall be fundamentally based on permanent residence of players, subject to a player
being entitled to play with his Home Club. Permanent Residence shall be defined in County Bye-Law. A County shall also have the option, within County Bye-Law, to allow a player to play with a Club in the area in which he works

Home club means the one he played for, tbh I don't see the transfer being put through on those grounds. He can still transfer for hurling, but not for football. The transfer rules are all here http://www.gaa.ie/content/documents/publications/official_guides/Official_Guide_2009_Part1_100109203732.pdf

Peace

madred006 have you spoken to the club he wants to transfer out from? I know there are high profile cases of transfer issues however at under age with a team that cannot field at his level then perhaps they may sign off a transfer.

Then again comitees in GAA don't have a good track record for using common sense.

Starie1975

Peace wrote: »

Then again comitees in GAA don't have a good track record for using common sense.

Rules are there for a reason, to protect the game. No committee can break a rules of the GAA. The parish rule is the most important rule in my view of the game. Common sense can't come into rule in cases of transfers. If you give a transfer to one then all will want one.

If the football team this young man is a member off can't feild a team then he can get a premission to play for one year. Thats the route I'd take.

If there are close to feilding a team and the young lads goes, what will happpen the rest of his old team mates? No football all summer!

madred006

Hi, yes have spoken to his present football club and they will not agree to transfer at any time and are arranging an amalgamation involving 4 clubs from 4 parishes ,and expect him to play ,well he wont but he will hurl with the club that he wishes to transfer to .
Now this is the organisation who sanctions transfers of senior players to bigger dublin clubs et all from rural clubs ,without any questions relating to parish rules ,or fielding issues ,and dont for one minute ,tell me that these players are not getting some reimbursment.No wonder they are struggling to field teams at underage level .

Clareman

If the 2 clubs involved and the player are in agreement that the transfer should go ahead then the committee will just rubber stamp the transfer, it's when there's a disagreement (like in this case) then they'll get involved and go by the rule book.

Starie1975

madred006 wrote: »

Hi, yes have spoken to his present football club and they will not agree to transfer at any time and are arranging an amalgamation involving 4 clubs from 4 parishes ,and expect him to play ,well he wont but he will hurl with the club that he wishes to transfer to .
Now this is the organisationwho sanctions transfers of senior players to bigger dublin clubs et all from rural clubs ,without any questions relating to parish rules ,or fielding issues ,and dont for one minute ,tell me that these players are not getting some reimbursment.No wonder they are struggling to field teams at underage level .

Sounds like a bit of a mess and I'd hate to be caught up in it. Amalgamation is the only way some clubs can feild a team. They are poping up all over the place.

Sorry to say but if your son is living within the 4 parishes then he will - under the rules - have to play for that amalgamation club. I totally agree with what you've said above.

My advice to you is?
Fill out the transer form, get the club to sign it, they must sign it and state the reason for not giving the transfer. I would think that the club will say no (Rule 6.3 as stated above ) only because they can't brake the rules of the GAA by giving the transfer. Don't take it that the club is out against you or your son.

When you have the form filled out and signed, write a letter to your county board asking for a meeting.

Starie1975

Clareman wrote: »

If the 2 clubs involved and the player are in agreement that the transfer should go ahead then the committee will just rubber stamp the transfer, it's when there's a disagreement (like in this case) then they'll get involved and go by the rule book.

The trouble is if one player get a transfer then all players can get one. You'll set a precedence which is very hard to stop and could end up killing the club.

Clareman

Besides when people move away from an area, underage transfers are usually a nightmare and it's rarely enough that any 2 are treated equally, that's why it's usually best to get each dealt with on an individual basis by the relevant parties.

IMVHO, under 14 is a very difficult age to get a transfer from as players are usually just entering secondary school and may "elect" to change club because of this alot of clubs will have a blanket ban on transfers for this age bracket. I'm not saying this is the case here, but it's a consideration.

rebel girl 15

Starie1975 wrote: »

The trouble is if one player get a transfer then all players can get one. You'll set a precedence which is very hard to stop and could end up killing the club.

thats the main reason why they will refuse the transfer.

the point about senior players going from rural clubs to Dublin clubs is rubbish, if the player is living and working in a parish that is not his home parish and can prove that, then of course he can transfer into the new parish or city in this case

You were saying that his present club were going to amalgamate with 4 clubs outside the parish?? that makes no sense, surely the club would amalgamate with a club inside the parish first. Your son could have a way out though - but it depends on the amalgamation. Is the amalgamation for the whole club i.e. every team or just for his age group? If it is for the whole club, then afaik the club must actually disband. So he would be registering for a new club technically, which should give him the option of not registering with the new club. But if it is for just his own age group, then there isn't any chance of it happening

I haven't had a chance to actually check that out in the rule book, but have a look through it anyway

madred006

In relation to the amalgamation it involves 4 clubs from 3 parishes but only for u14 but this will be u16 next year and minor the following year surely ,maybe best option is not to play fball this year and apply for transfer next year .But this is ,or seems to me as a parent ridiculous as it is achieving nothing , thanks for all replies .

Starie1975

madred006 wrote: »

In relation to the amalgamation it involves 4 clubs from 3 parishes but only for u14 but this will be u16 next year and minor the following year surely ,maybe best option is not to play fball this year and apply for transfer next year .But this is ,or seems to me as a parent ridiculous as it is achieving nothing , thanks for all replies .

Look at it this way - With an amalgamation the team will be stronger, play at a higher standard which will only improve the skills of your son. He still gets to play hurling. Don't stop playing football.

When he turns 18 he can be a free agent.

hisholinessnb

madred006 wrote: »

Now this is the organisation who sanctions transfers of senior players to bigger dublin clubs et all from rural clubs ,without any questions relating to parish rules ,or fielding issues ,and dont for one minute ,tell me that these players are not getting some reimbursment.No wonder they are struggling to field teams at underage level .

If a player moves to Dublin from the country you hardly expect him to go back down the country 3 times a week to play with his old club now do you :rolleyes:

Thats why the rules of transfers from clubs in one county to clubs in another county are different from transfers between clubs within the same county.
It makes perfect sense.

Regarding your suggestion that these players are being paid, whether this is true or not (it may well be), two wrongs don't make a right.

flyer88

A friend of mine recently moved club for nearly the exact same reasons....and he had absolutely no problems. So as far as i know there should be no difficulties in moving club.

rebel girl 15

Starie1975 wrote: »

Look at it this way - With an amalgamation the team will be stronger, play at a higher standard which will only improve the skills of your son. He still gets to play hurling. Don't stop playing football.

When he turns 18 he can be a free agent.

No such thing as a free agent according to the rule book, unless you mean the 96 week rule, which I'm not sure is still in play any more

flyer88 wrote: »

A friend of mine recently moved club for nearly the exact same reasons....and he had absolutely no problems. So as far as i know there should be no difficulties in moving club.

But was that a temporary or permanent transfer? Bear in mind the player in question was given a temp transfer to play hurling with the other club, but refused a full transfer for both

Starie1975

rebel girl 15 wrote: »

No such thing as a free agent according to the rule book, unless you mean the 96 week rule, which I'm not sure is still in play any more

Yes my wording was incorrect.

UpTheSlashers

The amalgamation will provide a team for your son with a team to hurl with, no need for a transfer.

wellpastit

I am involved in a mid to small size club. At U14 level we need to play some kids off the u12 team to fill a team. We do our best with what we have and a senior club next to us are constantly trying to transfer in a player they think might improve their team.
Tatic is be friendly with the parents, drop hints about the great facilities great senior team etc. The following year a transfer request arrives the good player now wants to play with his new friends.
We will not sign a transfer form unless the player is moving a distance away. It might sound harsh but a club that works with kids from 5 or 6 cannot sit back and see the best players leave to play in the next team. What about the lads left behind, should we let the good lads go and have no future team ourselves.Also the player that drops out to allow for the new player now he gets no game

madred006

Firstly thanks to all who replied to this thread ,lots of great input and debate .However as I said in the begining it will make no difference to me one way or the other ,as this was my son's wish to transfer as he says there are just 3 boys from his club that he would be playing with whereas if he got his transfer he would be with 20 -25 who are all in his class and that was what he wanted ,so after been in touch with both clubs today ,I am of the opinion that the transfer will not be granted and he has confirmed that he will not be playing football this year,but will continue to hurl for other club and his county thanks again for all input.

madred006

hisholinessnb wrote: »

If a player moves to Dublin from the country you hardly expect him to go back down the country 3 times a week to play with his old club now do you :rolleyes:

Thats why the rules of transfers from clubs in one county to clubs in another county are different from transfers between clubs within the same county.
It makes perfect sense.

Regarding your suggestion that these players are being paid, whether this is true or not (it may well be), two wrongs don't make a right.

Hi his.......... and thanks for you replies but do you not feel that this is also unfair to the smaller clubs whose coach's have put in many long evenings and commitment into these players at juvenille level to then see them leave small rural clubs for the attraction of bright lights:rolleyes:.We could debate this issue for hours I guess but its issues like these that see brothers play brothers in county semi-finals and finals ,and even while at club finals in plaoise on sun i noted that a Rhode player had played league football in laois and transfered mid season ,sorry for the rant ,it just seems maddening ,thanks again.

rebel girl 15

madred006 wrote: »

Firstly thanks to all who replied to this thread ,lots of great input and debate .However as I said in the begining it will make no difference to me one way or the other ,as this was my son's wish to transfer as he says there are just 3 boys from his club that he would be playing with whereas if he got his transfer he would be with 20 -25 who are all in his class and that was what he wanted ,so after been in touch with both clubs today ,I am of the opinion that the transfer will not be granted and he has confirmed that he will not be playing football this year,but will continue to hurl for other club and his county thanks again for all input.

Is he playing football for the county as well or just hurling?

madred006

No just hurling ,

hisholinessnb

madred006 wrote: »

do you not feel that this is also unfair to the smaller clubs whose coach's have put in many long evenings and commitment into these players at juvenille level to then see them leave small rural clubs for the attraction of bright lights:rolleyes:.

Its tough on them, but not unfair. After all you aren't actually suggesting these guys move to Dublin for the reason of playing with a Dublin club are you??

Most times they are forced to move to Dublin for work, and its not unreasonable to say they have a right to play where they live, especially when its not practical to travel back home.

Same goes for me, but in reverse, I moved from Dublin and switched clubs to the rural club where I live purely because it wasn't practical/possible time or cost wise to travel back home to train and play.

Should players who cant make it back to their home counties to play be forced to quit altogether? Of course not.

**that said the parish rule should apply, guys should play for the nearest club to their new home in Dublin, not the superclubs nowhere near their home who poach them.

Fandango

hisholinessnb wrote: »

**that said the parish rule should apply, guys should play for the nearest club to their new home in Dublin, not the superclubs nowhere near their home who poach them.

Agree 100% with that.

As for the transfer, the fact that his friends play on the other team cannot be taken as a valid argument imo. If that was allowed, could you imagine the mess it would create? Kid starts Secondary School, New friends so new club. Then starts college, new friends so new club and so on. The system would be far too easily abused also so it couldnt happen. In cities especially where you could have 5 clubs within 10 mins of your home. Its a real pity your son got caught up in a situation like this but the rules serve a major purpose. In a sport with no transfer fees, smaller clubs have to be protected from player poaching so strict rules are necessary unfortunately.

madred006

Thanks fandango agree with most of what you said but what gets me most is the travelling one would have to do if he decided to play football this year.Because his present club have ony 3 players training would also move to the club with largest amount which is 20 mins away versus 4 mins so all in all its my opinion that as an amatuer organisation they should not be as eager to enforce such stringent rules on juveniles ,that said i do agree that it could be open to abuse aswell so i guess sin sin ,thanks for input .

Marse

madred006 wrote: »

Hi , just looking for advice on options open to me please.
My son who is 14 looked to transfer to a club in our parish last year as hurling is his first love and his present club is not strong or indeed this year unable to field a team ,without amalgamation, and he again wants to transfer to a duel club within his parish but tells me if he is not allowed he will stop playing gaa and go to rugby .So I am eager to know what options are open to me if his transfer is refused as it is feeling of new club that this will be case ,any infromation greatly appreciated ,thanks .

If his current club has no hurling team at his age level. There is a provision for him to play hurling with the other club( with agreement from both clubs), but continue to play football for his current club. At minor we had a player join us just for hurling as he had no team with his club, but he continued to play football for his own club. He was a Dublin minor in both codes.