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Metro South - St. Stephen's Green to Tallaght

  • 25-01-2011 1:37am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 186 ✭✭ That username is already in use.


    Metro South:

    Gossn.jpg

    Instead of going directly to Rathmines, there should be a stop at Leeson St. Bridge.

    This will plug in a vast area of Dublin's Central Business District.

    From Leeson, the line heads south-west to a small park at Rathmines.

    From there, the line continues south-west to another park at Harold's Cross.

    It then heads south to Terenure, Bushy Park, and Templeogue.

    The last stops are Tymon Park, Millbrook and Tallaght, which are above ground.


Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭ sdanseo


    A bored tunnel would never be able to curve that tightly I don't think? Otherwise, it's a sensible route.


  • Registered Users Posts: 368 ✭✭ Roryhy


    I'd imagine the idea is to have Metro on stilts at the Tallaght bypass/Belgard Rd. junction.

    Or is it at the Leeson St curve you mean?


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭ sdanseo


    Roryhy wrote: »
    I'd imagine the idea is to have Metro on stilts at the Tallaght bypass/Belgard Rd. junction.

    Or is it at the Leeson St curve you mean?

    Leeson street, the tallaght part would be above ground he said.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,294 ✭✭✭ Pete_Cavan


    sdonn wrote: »
    A bored tunnel would never be able to curve that tightly I don't think? Otherwise, it's a sensible route.

    Even if it is possible, it would be extremely expensive and would not be worth the expense to get in one extra stop.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 185 ✭✭ oharach


    Does anyone know why the end of Metro North is pointed southeast, away from any obvious destinations for extension, either a link-up with the Green Line (unlikely, as previously pointed out on this forum), or Templeogue/Tallaght?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,905 ✭✭✭ Aard


    It looks like it's being pointed into the park, and just happens to be in a SE direction.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 185 ✭✭ oharach


    I see your point, however only the station itself is being constructed as cut-and-cover – the overrun tunnel and the loop to make reversing unnecessary are being bored. In that case, would it not have been possible to construct it parallel and quite close to the western side of the Green rather than diagonally?


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,905 ✭✭✭ Aard


    Maybe they really do plan on linking it with the Green Line. Or even sending it down the N11 to have an Airport--Affluence express!! </conspiracy_theory>


  • Registered Users Posts: 426 ✭✭ Jack Noble


    Aard wrote: »
    Maybe they really do plan on linking it with the Green Line. Or even sending it down the N11 to have an Airport--Affluence express!! </conspiracy_theory>

    The long-term plan is to upgrade the Green Line to Metro and run metrotrams from Bray to Swords. Referred to in Metro North Business Case and I would expect it will be in the next DTO/NTA strategy.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,688 ✭✭✭✭ Zebra3


    Jack Noble wrote: »
    The long-term plan is to upgrade the Green Line to Metro and run metrotrams from Bray to Swords. Referred to in Metro North Business Case and I would expect it will be in the next DTO/NTA strategy.

    Surely the long term plan is to run trams from Bray to Broombridge. :confused:


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  • Registered Users Posts: 426 ✭✭ Jack Noble


    Zebra3 wrote: »
    Surely the long term plan is to run trams from Bray to Broombridge. :confused:
    No, the original DTO strategy was Swords to Bray and that is still the long-term plan but probably 20 years away at this stage.

    If Green Line is upgraded to Metro by extension of the tunnel to, for example, Beechwood, with BXD, trams will run from Ranelagh to Broombridge.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,688 ✭✭✭✭ Zebra3


    But is that part of T21 which I thought was the only current plan in operation?


  • Registered Users Posts: 426 ✭✭ Jack Noble


    Zebra3 wrote: »
    But is that part of T21 which I thought was the only current plan in operation?

    Not in T21. It only covers construction of Metro North and West, Luas Green and Red extensions, Lucan Luas and Dart Underground. But T21 essentially cherrypicked certain elements of the Dublin Transportation Office's Platform for Change 2000-2016 strategy launched in 2001.

    http://www.dto.ie/platform1.pdf

    But once these are in place or under construction, planning will begin for the next phase which should include the remainder of the DTO's PFC strategy and any new proposals contained in the 2030 Vision strategy for the Greater Dublin Area which is currently being prepared.

    http://www.2030vision.ie/


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,803 ✭✭✭✭ LXFlyer


    I would fervently hope that Metro does not continue onto the Green line. What is badly needed on the south side is some form of rapid rail in the area shown on the map above.

    It suffers from narrow roadspace (hence LUAS line E got cancelled) and chronic traffic congestion.


  • Registered Users Posts: 426 ✭✭ Jack Noble


    lxflyer wrote: »
    I would fervently hope that Metro does not continue onto the Green line. What is badly needed on the south side is some form of rapid rail in the area shown on the map above.

    It suffers from narrow roadspace (hence LUAS line E got cancelled) and chronic traffic congestion.

    Both the Bray-SSG and Tallaght-SSG lines were in DTO PFC and will be part of the longer-term plans. Check link above.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,221 BrianD


    Jack Noble wrote: »
    No, the original DTO strategy was Swords to Bray and that is still the long-term plan but probably 20 years away at this stage.

    If Green Line is upgraded to Metro by extension of the tunnel to, for example, Beechwood, with BXD, trams will run from Ranelagh to Broombridge.

    Really underlines the fact that there is no strategic thinking going on.

    Why on earth would you run the line to Bray which is already served by DART.

    Bizarre. There is zero logic to it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 426 ✭✭ Jack Noble


    BrianD wrote: »
    Really underlines the fact that there is no strategic thinking going on.

    Why on earth would you run the line to Bray which is already served by DART.

    Bizarre. There is zero logic to it.

    Why do any two lines on any network intersect?

    And why did two rail lines once serve Bray before from three different approaches? Our forefathers obviously saw merit in it.

    PFC was then and still is now a sensible, well-thought out strategy that covered most of the GDA with rail rapid transit lines - either Metro, Luas or Dart.

    I would suggest the zero logic belongs to you.

    Here's the map of the network proposed in the DTO PFC. Now can you see the logic?

    DublinPlanMetro&LUAStram.G.jpg


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,221 BrianD


    There are many maps in circulation and that's just another. This is already out of date evidenced by the fact that the Green line in blue is described as a metro.

    Extending the tram line to Brides Glen to Cherrywood is bad practice plain and simple. Especially when there are other priorities in the city.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,221 BrianD


    Just to add to the topic. If there was ever a metro route that could be justified it would be to Tallaght given that it has a population of 90,000 (2.5 times that of Swords). The Red line tram was not the best option for Tallaght but it could be repurposed.


  • Registered Users Posts: 426 ✭✭ Jack Noble


    BrianD wrote: »
    There are many maps in circulation and that's just another. This is already out of date evidenced by the fact that the Green line in blue is described as a metro.

    Extending the tram line to Brides Glen to Cherrywood is bad practice plain and simple. Especially when there are other priorities in the city.

    That map is the basis of the long-term transport strategy for Dublin and the GDA - wait and see how much of it will still be in 2030 Vision.

    It's a long-term plan. Some people in government - and by that I mean the permanent civil servants and not the elected politicians - are actually thinking ahead 10, 20, 30, even 50 years.

    Good practice is putting in infrastructure and developing around it - not the other way round which we in Ireland have been doing for the last 50 years.

    But it's all just an academic/internet fantasy debate and means nothing until Metro North/West and Dart Underground are in place or under construction.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,221 BrianD


    Jack Noble wrote: »
    That map is the basis of the long-term transport strategy for Dublin and the GDA - wait and see how much of it will still be in 2030 Vision.

    It's a long-term plan. Some people in government - and by that I mean the permanent civil servants and not the elected politicians - are actually thinking ahead 10, 20, 30, even 50 years.

    Good practice is putting in infrastructure and developing around it - not the other way round which we in Ireland have been doing for the last 50 years.

    But it's all just an academic/internet fantasy debate and means nothing until Metro North/West and Dart Underground are in place or under construction.

    I don't agree that there is planning ahead. There is zero evidence of that pracrice. If there was we wouldn't have a Dublin suburban sprawl into Meath/Kildare/Wicklow that is impossible to serve in a meaningful way with any form or transport other than private car and bus.


  • Registered Users Posts: 426 ✭✭ Jack Noble


    BrianD wrote: »
    I don't agree that there is planning ahead. There is zero evidence of that pracrice. If there was we wouldn't have a Dublin suburban sprawl into Meath/Kildare/Wicklow that is impossible to serve in a meaningful way with any form or transport other than private car and bus.

    Look at what I said - they are planning ahead now.

    That is not what has been done for the last 50 years.

    Here's an interesting quote from CIE chief exec Dick Fearn at the opening of the Dart Underground hearing on December 22 last.
    DART Underground will influence future growth and settlement strategy for several generations throughout the greater Dublin area and particularly in the metropolitan areas. The current economic slow down should not be used as a reason for deferring the investment. Everybody would agree that, if the DART had been extended throughout the 1980’s as originally planned, we would now have a more compact and sustainable metropolitan area. It was a missed opportunity and the 1980’s economic recession was the excuse.

    http://www.irishrail.ie/dupdfs/projects/pdf/2010.11.22.07%20BoE%20%20Dick%20Fearn%20Introduction%20to%20DART%20Underground.pdf

    Final paragraph, page 6


  • Registered Users Posts: 426 ✭✭ Jack Noble


    BrianD wrote: »
    I don't agree that there is planning ahead. There is zero evidence of that pracrice. If there was we wouldn't have a Dublin suburban sprawl into Meath/Kildare/Wicklow that is impossible to serve in a meaningful way with any form or transport other than private car and bus.

    Look at what I said - they are planning ahead now.

    That is not what has been done for the last 50 years.

    Here's an interesting quote from CIE chief exec Dick Fearn at the opening of the Dart Underground hearing on December 22 last.
    DART Underground will influence future growth and settlement strategy for several generations throughout the greater Dublin area and particularly in the metropolitan areas. The current economic slow down should not be used as a reason for deferring the investment. Everybody would agree that, if the DART had been extended throughout the 1980’s as originally planned, we would now have a more compact and sustainable metropolitan area. It was a missed opportunity and the 1980’s economic recession was the excuse.

    http://www.irishrail.ie/dupdfs/projects/pdf/2010.11.22.07%20BoE%20%20Dick%20Fearn%20Introduction%20to%20DART%20Underground.pdf

    Final paragraph, page 6

    Now they are planning ahead with Luas, Metro and Dart and development in the future will be concentrated along those corridors and lines.


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