Yet another VRT Query!

salamander27

The latest legal defintion of the motor caravan has no reference to the interior height, (ie. the 1.8 metre minimum rule). See below:

From Directive 2007/46/EC:

5.1. "Motor Caravan" means a special purpose M category vehicle constructed to include living accommodation which contains at least the following equipment:

- seats and table,

- sleeping accommodation which may be converted from the seats,

- cooking facilities, and

- storage facilities.

This equipment shall be rigidly fixed to the living compartment; however, the table may be designed to be easily removable.

Would I be foolish enough to assume for VRT purposes the height rule is no more, so pop top camper-vans may (and rightly so) qualify as motor caravans?

And if so would they then qualify for the cheaper motor tax rate?

spaceHopper

salamander27 wrote: »

The latest legal defintion of the motor caravan has no reference to the interior height, (ie. the 1.8 metre minimum rule). See below:

From Directive 2007/46/EC:


Would I be foolish enough to assume for VRT purposes the height rule is no more, so pop top camper-vans may (and rightly so) qualify as motor caravans?

And if so would they then qualify for the cheaper motor tax rate?

I'd call the VRT office in Roslare, they will be able to tell you and hopefully stand by it

paddyp

That would be great!

spaceHopper

You know what you may be right, that would be cool, my next van would be a surf bus, mid height non gas guzzler

niloc1951

The definition quoted has always been the same.
AFAIK the hight rule has nothing to do with the VRT, it is a local Irish thing and has to do with qualifying for the special road tax rate of €88 per year.
The Dept. don't want people to be able to use small campers in place of cars for everyday use and avoid the 'car' tax rates .

spaceHopper

I've seen pop tops, including newer one taxed as campers. Always assumed they had to pay 36% vrt

niloc1951

spaceHopper wrote: »

I've seen pop tops, including newer one taxed as campers. Always assumed they had to pay 36% vrt

have a look here about what is required to qualify for the 'motor caravan' road tax rate of €88.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2008/en/act/pub/0024/print.html#sec3

Scroll down to Section 3 Part 1 Description of Vehicle Paragraph 4 (e)

spaceHopper

niloc1951 wrote: »

have a look here about what is required to qualify for the 'motor caravan' road tax rate of €88.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2008/en/act/pub/0024/print.html#sec3

Scroll down to Section 3 Part 1 Description of Vehicle Paragraph 4 (e)

None the less I saw a 2006 VW pop top taxed for 88

salamander27

And this Bongo has got cheap tax too. I check the reg on Motortax.ie too!

http://www.donedeal.ie/for-sale/campers/1842757

Maybe the Revenue Commissioner is satisfied with a temporary height of not less than 1.8m, i.e. when the pop top is up!

riverhead

Hi There anyone know the best way to sell a classic camper van on the web?
Its a 67 319 mercedes. A beaut!

meercat

riverhead wrote: »

Hi There anyone know the best way to sell a classic camper van on the web?
Its a 67 319 mercedes. A beaut!

try donedeal.ie in their classic motor section
also worth posting in their motorhome section
any chance of a pic
id love to see it
best of luck with your sale

riverhead

Hi there,
I will try put a picture soon.
It is lovely, totally rebuilt at cost of thousands! Even made a new roof rack for it!

Aidan_M_M

salamander27 wrote: »

And this Bongo has got cheap tax too. I check the reg on Motortax.ie too!

http://www.donedeal.ie/for-sale/campers/1842757

Maybe the Revenue Commissioner is satisfied with a temporary height of not less than 1.8m, i.e. when the pop top is up!

Yep , pop tops are fine .

paddyp

Aidan_M_M wrote: »

Yep , pop tops are fine .

Thats a serious revelation to me! I thought all the poptops registered as campers just predated the height shenannigans.

Presumably poptops still pay 33% vrt which makes no sense.. i.e. its a camper for road tax but not a camper for vrt?

If pop tops count for tax every caravelle and vito in the country should have one the roof would pay for itself in three years.

[edit] Also as the 180cm must be measured at the lowest point that rules out 99% of poptops .. my brain is melting trying to deduce what goes on in the vrt black box [/edit]

boardsiebob

I think the 1.8m rule is for conversions only. There are different rules for conversions.

paddyp

So better to 'convert' the van in the north and register it here the whole thing is a feckin swizz.

Irishgoatman

My camper only meets the required height at the back where the sink and cooker are. When they asked me about the height I gave it to them in feet and inches (let them convert it !), they accepted that and didn't leave the office to check anything at all !. I'd better not mention the name of the office I went to.

paddyp

The vrt form from december has been taken down along with the standard crewcab form, has anyone been issued with a revised form or procedure?

salamander27

Seems to be a bit of a contradiction?

This is from the VRT Procedures manual Section 1 found here:
http://www.revenue.ie/en/about/foi/s16/vehicle-registration-tax/vrt-manual-section-1.pdf

1.2.2.2 Motor Caravans
Motor caravans (as defined in s130 F.A.1992) that exceed 3,000 kilograms unladen weight are classified as Category C vehicles. Those weighing 3,000 kilograms or less unladen weight, which meet the motor caravan definition, are classified as Category B.
To be deemed a motor caravan a vehicle must, amongst other criteria, have an interior roof height of not less than 1.8 metres. Vehicles that are fitted with pop-up or adjustable roofs should have this measurement taken with the roof in its lowest
position and where the roof slopes the interior roof height should be measured at its lowest point. They must also contain a sink and a two-ring cooker as minimum
equipment.
It should be noted that vehicles that provide temporary living accommodation but fail to come within the definition of motor caravans may be classified as Category A vehicles.

It references motor caravan definition from Finance act (FA) 1992 with 18m rule.....

But look below from the Finance act 2010 there is an amendment to the 1992 act......replacing the old definition with the EU definition and therefore no height rule!

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2010/en/act/pub/0005/sec0102.html

Amendment of section 130 (interpretation) of Finance Act 1992.

102.— (1) Section 130 of the Finance Act 1992 is amended—


k) by substituting the following for the definition of “motor caravan”:

“ ‘motor caravan’ has the same meaning as in paragraph 5.1 of Annex II of Directive 2007/46/EC;”,

I hope I'm right as 13.3% is much less than 36% if the van has no emmissions data!

Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be an change to the definition of motor caravan in the motor tax law as Nicloc pointed out so I guess the VRT man filled out the form wrong for the pop tops that have the cheaper tax.

niloc1951

The €88 Road Tax is a welcome concession which was hard fought for many years ago. It was granted in recognition that motor caravans as described in the MOTOR VEHICLE (DUTIES AND LICENCES) Act (over 1.8 meter internal height) are not likely to be used as 'everyday' transport and would have a very limited presence on the roads, like the other vehicles subject to the same reduced rate.
It would be most unfortunate if the above concession was to unravel should there be a proliferation of VW T5 conversions in daily use as replacements for MPV's etc as an tax avoidance measure.
IMHO, the removal of the height criteria for Road Tax purposes, perish the thought, would probably happen in conjunction with the loss of the special concession.
Road Tax would then be €288 or €364 for the majority of coach built/low profile or A class, if like in the UK they were classed a 'goods vehicle' for Road Tax purposes :(