Finance Bill to be completed by Friday

CoalBucket

Just announced on 6 one news

Finance bill to be completed by Friday and then the Dail will be disolved

Seanad will sit on saturday to facilitate the bill.

Motion of No Confidence in the Taoiseach and the government will be deferred until next tuesday.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0124/politics.html

the groutch

Labour & FG sold out

InchicoreDude

What annoys me is FG's and labour assertion that the finance bill can be passed if certain things are not debated - if this is the case, why would these things be debated if circumstances were normal?

kev9100

So much for the idea that it would take a month. Typical FF bull****.

PeterIanStaker

Seanad is about as useful as a handbrake on a canoe, its just another delaying mechanism. :rolleyes:

unit 1

Total humiliation for Lenihan and FF, from being cocks of the walk and enjoying the odd half hour in the chamber, downgraded to schoolboys being told what to do.:D:D
Fair play to Kennys tactics, he has humiliated his detractors, and hopefully put FG in the driving seat for a possible, "as near as makes no difference" overall majority.

SB-08

I love it:D Lenny and Clowen said it simply was not possible to pass it by the end of this week, despite the opposition saying they will put aside everything. Now they are saying it can be done due to the opposition putting aside everything. They are incapable of telling the truth. Just lies, spin and an endless stream of BS. I cannot wait to see the back of them. I can't stand Enda Kenny but one thing I reckon he will be is honest with the people of this country. The contempt for the people will hopefully be a thing of the past.

Biffo and Lenny must be humiliated.

GSF

PeterIanStaker wrote: »

Seanad is about as useful as a handbrake on a canoe, its just another delaying mechanism. :rolleyes:

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/senate-unites-and-bill-is-pollaxed-509318.html

the independent senators have spotted some serious flaws in laws in the past

later12

I think it is a shame that the finance bill will not be properly debated. The bill has some highly questionable legislative provisions (including handing new powers to the Minister for Finance and the Revenue) and while i understand the desire to call a snap election, the markets are not flooded with concerns about whether the bill shall be passed this week or in two weeks time.

From the point of view of principle alone (although I realise most people don't care about the principles surrounding the bill) I think that it ought to be given adequate debate time.

http://www.charteredaccountants.ie/General/News-and-Events/Media/PressRelease/2011/A-rushed-Finance-Bill-will-result-in-bad-tax-laws--Chartered-Accountants-Ireland/

Chartered Accountants Ireland believes that rushing through the Finance Bill 2011 in the time being proposed today by both Government and Opposition spokespersons will result in bad tax legislation. The proposed timeframe for the passage of the Finance Bill will result in the normal process being truncated, possibly down to one eighth of the time usually allotted.

The Finance Bill is a complicated piece of legislation. It affects every person in the State by levying tax on our citizens. The process of debating the Finance Bill allows time to establish whether or not the Budget Day policies and decisions are accurately reflected in the proposed law. In addition this Finance Bill of 2011 also introduces charges and levies not mentioned at Budget time. These include new powers for Revenue, earlier tax payment dates for taxpayers and curtailment of existing tax reliefs such as the relief on fees paid for third level education. Such important matters should not be imposed upon the citizens of this country without adequate debate.

A Finance Bill which is to be passed in short order should only contain those matters already dealt with in the Financial Resolutions voted on in the Dáil on Budget Night. Any new matters should be dealt with in a further Finance Act, properly debated, at a later stage.

InchicoreDude

I think it is a shame that the finance bill will not be properly debated. The bill has some highly questionable legislative provisions (including handing new powers to the Minister for Finance and the Revenue) and while i understand the desire to call a snap election, the markets are not flooded with concerns about whether the bill shall be passed this week or in two weeks time.

From the point of view of principle alone (although I realise most people don't care about the principles surrounding the bill) I think that it ought to be given adequate debate time.

I agree. Its absolutely ridiculous that in order to bring in a new government quickly, all parties are agreeing to a slimmed down version of governance for the next week.

How does any party come out of this with honour? Cant understand why FG & Labour are being applauded over this... For the sake of 2-3 weeks, they are forcing the government to rush through the finance bill. It just really seems to me like they are doing it so they can have an election before FF can recover a little from the last week. I certainly wont be believing any 'national interest' bull**** they might be spouting any more. How can it be in the 'national interest' to rush through a bill so quickly? They have already said it will need to be rushed through, they have admitted this. Why 'rush'? Isn't that showing disregard to the dáil like they claimed FF were doing last week?

I have never been as disillusioned about Irish politics as I am now.

flutered

because every day the present incumberents remain in office is a day too many, how can anyone see the present cabinet doing the job of goverment as it should be, carey, ocuiv, clowen etc need to be removed from office asap.

later12

InchicoreDude wrote: »

It just really seems to me like they are doing it so they can have an election before FF can recover a little from the last week.

I think that's partially the case, but also I'm sure they don't want to be seen to be implementing this stuff in a bill of their own as soon as they arrive into office.
They want this to be Fianna Fáil's boo-boo, and (while I don't blame them because it was Fianna Fáil's catastrophe) I hardly think that's becoming of a very impressive new and brave leadership ready to do the right thing.

If they want to do the right thing, and they don't think we can wait until they arrive into office to pass this bill, then they should let the election wait for two weeks and open this hugely important Bill to the appropriate level of scrutiny that it needs.

InchicoreDude

I think that's partially the case, but also I'm sure they don't want to be seen to be implementing this stuff in a bill of their own as soon as they arrive into office.
They want this to be Fianna Fáil's boo-boo, and (while I don't blame them because it was Fianna Fáil's catastrophe) I hardly think that's becoming of a very impressive new and brave leadership ready to do the right thing.

If they want to do the right thing, and they don't think we can wait until they arrive into office to pass this bill, then they should let the election wait for two weeks and open this hugely important Bill to the appropriate level of scrutiny that it needs.

I agree FF should bring this bill in. It is their (& the greens responsibility to do it). I do not think it good policy from FG & Labour to force them to rush the bill through.
Its madness and I am surprised nobody is bringing this point up - Maybe Fianna Fail are afraid to after all the **** they got wrong in the last few days! Its just crazy to see this. There should be at least a month before an election anyway to allow the public be aware of who they are voting for and March 11th isnt much longer than a month.

whippet

this is a sorry day for the irish political system, as bad as it has been for years ...

our main opposition parties have had their bluff called by the greens.

If either FG or Labour can actually stand over their economy policies they wouldn't facilitate the passing of the Finance Bill and look to implement their own policies by bringing down the government this week.

From the frying pan to the fire for us .......

The Volt

All FG and Labour have agreed with the government is a timetable for debate in the Dail. They will table amendments in the normal way and call votes as appropriate. This is an important distinction.

Liam Byrne

What sickened me earlier was hearing that the measures that wallop us ordinary folk are included, while the laws to tax bonuses from bailed-out banks will be excluded.

There is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY this bill should be passed without that included, because it will show that FG & Labour have no interest in protecting the ordinary people from the sickening shennanigans by the bankers who would be on the dole were it not for our cash.

Sickening! :mad:

Min

It is getting passed in a shorter timeframe because the parties agreed to put all aside all other business like Taoiseach questions and other business, if they had not it would have taken longer.
It is also taking less time because certain items in the finance bill are being dropped.

It is clear from today that FG and Labour want the finance bill passed, however much they protested on the day of the budget, when push came to shove they put aside their motions of no confidence so it could get passed before the election.

later12

I would just add that there are in fact measures excluded which would have effected ordinary PAYE workers. For example, civil partnership couples will not now have their new taxation requirements recognised until such time as the incoming Government see fit. It isn't all about bankers (most of it isn't) but if you want a quick finance bill, this is the price that you must pay.

Liam Byrne wrote: »

it will show that FG & Labour have no interest in protecting the ordinary people

And so it begins. Enjoy, Fine Gaelers.

Liam Byrne

later10 wrote: »

And so it begins. Enjoy, Fine Gaelers.

It's not just "Fine Gaelers"; it's also those of us who have no preconceived notions as to who to vote for who were hoping for a significant change in the focus of the political establishment.

FG & Labour would want to come out and state clearly that they will pass the abandoned items within 2 months of the election.

later12

Liam Byrne wrote: »

It's not just "Fine Gaelers"; it's also those of us who have no preconceived notions as to who to vote for who were hoping for a significant change in the focus of the political establishment.

FG & Labour would want to come out and state clearly that they will pass the abandoned items within 2 months of the election.

That reference was to Fine Gael posters on boards, who will now be on the receiving end of the righteous indignation and moral outrage of everything they commit to legislation in terms of tightening fiscal policy from so many of the posters of outrage who never propose an alternative method or organisation. We've already started to see a trend emerging in that regard on this site, in my opinion, just look at this and the Joan Burton threads.

The ABFF crew will soon be ABFG, ABL, and so on and on and on.

joelim7

the groutch wrote: »

Labour & FG sold out

This has basically been the situation with irish politics for the past 10years, business & commerce clap their hands cos they make massive profits no brains required- lets just sell stuff, exponential. house owners clap their hands massive 10% a year in value. public sector workers get massive year on year secure wage rises- secure means these wages rises cannot be easily reversed.Clap your hands.( apparently key word: based on or wrongly descrbed as bench marked on public sector wages.)
public and private no relationship except corrupt.

20Cent

Big boost for SF and PBP out of this.

Sir Oxman

later10 wrote: »

That reference was to Fine Gael posters on boards, who will now be on the receiving end of the righteous indignation and moral outrage of everything they commit to legislation in terms of tightening fiscal policy from so many of the posters of outrage who never propose an alternative method or organisation. We've already started to see a trend emerging in that regard on this site, in my opinion, just look at this and the Joan Burton threads.

The ABFF crew will soon be ABFG, ABL, and so on and on and on.

The savaging of Burton after her VB performance was justified from all quarters, did you watch it?

FG and Labour and SF won't get a free dice throw to the finish line on here or anywhere else for that matter and that is correct.