Joint membership of CPA & ACCA

Cathalh

Hi all,

I am a qualified CPA since December 2008 and am thinking about also applying to ACCA for membership. Does anybody know what the requirments are for doing this? I understand that I may be eligable under the Mutual Recognition Directive. Has anybody done this? What would be involved?

Thanks in advance,

Cathal

ari101

A question for CPA Ireland or ACCA, drop them a mail and I'm sure they'll tell you straight away.

According to what is advertised on their websites... no unfortunately

http://www.accaglobal.com/members/mutual_memberships/

http://www.cpaireland.ie/displaycontent.aspx?groupid=339&headerid=1470

Alan Shore

Hi,
On the basis that I see limited benefit from paying subs to one institute why would you pay subs to 2.
C.

smcgiff

Is the Mutual Recognition Directive where the member countries recognise each other's qualifications.

I don't see how this would aid transfer to another organisation.

OP, I'd say you'd have to pass about 4 exams. You'd already have enough work experience.

The ACCA exemption database will tell you exactly how many exams you'd have to take.

Cathalh

Thanks all,

ACCA website says exempt from F1-F9 but may be eligable under the MRD. The main reason for getting the second qualification is to help with job hunting etc, it seems a lot of employers are going back to the 'ACA or ACCA only'. I once had an interview and the prospective employer told me my chances were limited as "CPA's are only CPA's because they are too lazy to do ACCA or ACA".

smcgiff

EDITED wrote: »

I am REALLY angry with
CPA about this attitude - ostriches would be ashamed!

Hi Bob, I've had a word and you've been promoted to head of CPA - What do you propose to do to change this perception?

smcgiff

Edited wrote:

just posted about 15 ideas, but the site logged me off.. will respond later...

agh - hate when that happens!

tenchi-fan

I had a lecturer in BPP.

He asked me why I chose ACCA. I said it's because I worked in an ACCA practice, likewise my friend did CPA just because he is in a CPA practice "but at the end of the day there isn't much difference"

He looked at me surprised and said , "ACCA is a much better qualification than CPA. CPA has terrible accountants in Dublin. CPA has a very bad reputation with the tax office."

So maybe it's a Dublin thing.... for the record, all the accountants in my last job were either ACA or ACCA, except for one guy who did CIMA.

smcgiff

Crotch Guard... Check
Body Armour... Check
Shin Guards ... Check
Hockey Mask... Check
Permanent Health Insurance up to date... Check

Okay, my take on the CPA qualified (not forgetting the bounds of being a moderator).

Given that both ACCA and CPA are open entry - Why would someone do CPA considering ACCA is an option?

Even if one only takes that there are perception issues. To counter the ACCA/ACA only brigade a CPA accountant needs to be able to convincingly say I chose CPA as it was the best option for me because <enter valid reason here>

* The lazy answer, because CPA is Irish and think that ACCA is UK based doesn’t wash with me. Fair enough if that’s your opinion, but to my mind it’s irrelevant. ACCA has an Irish HQ and has more Irish accountants than CPA. More importantly John Q public won’t give a damn.

Anecdotally - I believe a significant number of those that went the CPA route did so for the very reason they thought (at the time of joining up, especially) it was an easier route to becoming a qualified accountant. Any CPA I’ve spent time working with and those qualified CPA’s that I got to know taking ACCA exams admitted as much.

To my mind CPA students knowingly took this trade off when signing up for CPA. They went for what they perceived as an easier route to get qualified more quickly. This being the case it is hardly surprising that the Public/other accountants are of the same opinion.

Until CPA can dispel this perception the ACA/ACCA only ads are going to continue. I don’t think it will be an easy task, although it seems the new Head of CPA has 15 ways in which this can be achieved.

Cathalh

Am I not correct in saying that both ACCA and ACA have approached CPA in recent with a view to merging?

Also, was the CPA course not deemed to be the most indepth course in the last number of years?

Apologies if I am wrong, I just seem to remember hearing a bit about it a while back.

I agree that something desperatly needs to be done to enhance CPA reputation, but certainly will take time.

smcgiff

Cathalh wrote: »

Am I not correct in saying that both ACCA and ACA have approached CPA in recent with a view to merging?

Also, was the CPA course not deemed to be the most indepth course in the last number of years?

Apologies if I am wrong, I just seem to remember hearing a bit about it a while back.

I agree that something desperatly needs to be done to enhance CPA reputation, but certainly will take time.

ACA approached CPA a few years back. For Merger read take over in reality. When the heads consulted the ground troops it was clear there was no way they were going to get enough support to progress the merger.

Not sure about which course is more in depth.

Not making a specific comment, but there's a difference between the set course, what's thought and what is examined.

censuspro

smcgiff wrote: »

Crotch Guard... Check
Body Armour... Check
Shin Guards ... Check
Hockey Mask... Check
Permanent Health Insurance up to date... Check

Okay, my take on the CPA qualified (not forgetting the bounds of being a moderator).

Given that both ACCA and CPA are open entry - Why would someone do CPA considering ACCA is an option?

Even if one only takes that there are perception issues. To counter the ACCA/ACA only brigade a CPA accountant needs to be able to convincingly say I chose CPA as it was the best option for me because <enter valid reason here>

* The lazy answer, because CPA is Irish and think that ACCA is UK based doesn’t wash with me. Fair enough if that’s your opinion, but to my mind it’s irrelevant. ACCA has an Irish HQ and has more Irish accountants than CPA. More importantly John Q public won’t give a damn.

Anecdotally - I believe a significant number of those that went the CPA route did so for the very reason they thought (at the time of joining up, especially) it was an easier route to becoming a qualified accountant. Any CPA I’ve spent time working with and those qualified CPA’s that I got to know taking ACCA exams admitted as much.

To my mind CPA students knowingly took this trade off when signing up for CPA. They went for what they perceived as an easier route to get qualified more quickly. This being the case it is hardly surprising that the Public/other accountants are of the same opinion.

Until CPA can dispel this perception the ACA/ACCA only ads are going to continue. I don’t think it will be an easy task, although it seems the new Head of CPA has 15 ways in which this can be achieved.

Why don't you present the argument why somone would do ACCA over any other institute? BTW, how do you know that CPA exams are easier if you haven't sat the exams?

tenchi-fan

censuspro wrote: »

Why don't you present the argument why somone would do ACCA over any other institute? BTW, how do you know that CPA exams are easier if you haven't sat the exams?

Censuspro,

ACCA used to make students sit and pass their final three exams all at once. I know a lot of people who took 3 attempts to pass their exams - having to resit the same exams 3 times.
When I was doing my exams it was required to pass two and get over 30 in one to qualify for a deferral (which gave another attempt at the exam missed).

I think CPA had 4 final exams, but students had three attempts to pass them all. This obviously contributed towards the perception that CPA exams are easier... because it was easier to pass the final exams.

smcgiff

Censuspro,

You've pretty much avoided the issues.

However, to answer your questions.

There are 4 main accounting bodies in Ireland.

ICAI, ACCA, CIMA and CPA

I’ve contrasted ACCA and CPA for a reason, as I’m trying to make the comparison as simple as possible.

We can rule out CIMA because it is primarily an industry qualification, whereas CPA is not.

We can rule out ICAI because there are barriers to entry, and this is a good reason why someone would pick CPA, as opposed to ICAI.

Therefore, ACCA and CPA are competing for the same students. Both are open entry and are more comparable.

Re the easiness of the exams – I’ve gone out of my way not to make that assertion.

smcgiff

censuspro wrote: »

Why don't you present the argument why somone would do ACCA over any other institute?

Sorry picked you up wrong - that's what I get for being busy.

There's a quick and diplomatic answer to this. The market/public perception is that ACCA is better. simples.

aidandmoran

......

tenchi-fan

aidandmoran wrote: »

message

Besides the fact your post is completely off-topic, have a read of the forum charter:

The Primary function of this forum is not educational - as such grind schools are not to be recommended or commented on.

pumpit2010

Sorry a little off initial thread, can post elsewhere if required, but in terms of working abroad (Australia, NZ, Canada, Middle East) which qualification would get more recognition?

Have heard before that ACCA is not that well recognised in Australia?

Does the ACCA qualificaiton travel well?

tenchi-fan

pumpit2010 wrote: »

Does the ACCA qualificaiton travel well?

I'm in Canada.. it's not much good over here either!

That being said, thanks to a mutual recognition agreement either CPA or ACCA members can become CGA Canada members, which is recognised.

censuspro

Smcgiff, with all due respect your assertions are based on heresay, anecdotal evidence, generalisations and misinformation.

For example:

smcgiff wrote: »

Is the Mutual Recognition Directive where the member countries recognise each other's qualifications.

It is considered best practice to understand what something is before forming an opinion or commenting. The Mutual Recognition Directive is an agreement between relevant bodies that allow members from one institute join another. Members of ACCA can join CPA ,and vice versa, without sitting any exams if they so wished.

Again, by your own admission your opinion is based on anecdotal evidence that has no factual basis and therefore has no credibility:

smcgiff wrote: »

Anecdotally - I believe a significant number of those that went the CPA route did so for the very reason they thought (at the time of joining up, especially) it was an easier route to becoming a qualified accountant. Any CPA I’ve spent time working with and those qualified CPA’s that I got to know taking ACCA exams admitted as much.

Another example of more misinformation,. Were you on the committee at the time? Otherwise you don’t know what the reason is i.e. no factual basis = no credibility:

smcgiff wrote: »

ACA approached CPA a few years back. For Merger read take over in reality. When the heads consulted the ground troops it was clear there was no way they were going to get enough support to progress the merger.

In the next post, again by your own admission, you state that you don’t know much about the details of the syllabus. However that doesn’t seem to stop you from making assumptions:

smcgiff wrote: »

Not sure about which course is more in depth.

Not making a specific comment, but there's a difference between the set course, what's thought and what is examined.

Here is another example of factual inaccuracies:

smcgiff wrote: »

There are 4 main accounting bodies in Ireland.

smcgiff wrote: »

ICAI, ACCA, CIMA and CPA

I’ve contrasted ACCA and CPA for a reason, as I’m trying to make the comparison as simple as possible.

We can rule out CIMA because it is primarily an industry qualification, whereas CPA is not.

We can rule out ICAI because there are barriers to entry, and this is a good reason why someone would pick CPA, as opposed to ICAI.

Therefore, ACCA and CPA are competing for the same students. Both are open entry and are more comparable.

Re the easiness of the exams – I’ve gone out of my way not to make that assertion.

The barriers to entry have been removed from all the accountancy bodies. ICAI removed their barriers to entry over a year ago when they launched their elevation programme.

It appears that the only damage that is being done to the CPA brand is by people spreading inaccurate generalisations and misinformation. The only opinions that you can form should be based on your own personal experience. Have you ever had a bad experience with a CPA member or the institute? If not, then you should keep those opinions to yourself.

smcgiff

Censuspro,

You might want to look up the details of the elevation programme - there remains a clear barrier of entry to membership of the CAI. What's that you mentioned about best practice again...

Please provide evidence that you could, say, join the CAI as a full member using your CPA qualification.

My understanding of the mutual recognition directive is where a professional organisation is recognised in each of the member countries. Have you other information?


I relayed my own experiences - I agree they are anecdotal. Whether they have credibility or not is for others to decide - not just you.

Re the Merger - This is common knowledge - sorry if it's only news to you.

Apart from the four bodies I mentioned what are the other main bodies in Ireland? Do you think I should only have mentioned the first three, perhaps?

censuspro

smcgiff wrote: »

Censuspro,

You might want to look up the details of the elevation programme - there remains a clear barrier of entry to membership of the CAI. What's that you mentioned about best practice again...

Please provide evidence that you could, say, join the CAI as a full member using your CPA qualification.

My understanding of the mutual recognition directive is where a professional organisation is recognised in each of the member countries. Have you other information?


I relayed my own experiences - I agree they are anecdotal. Whether they have credibility or not is for others to decide - not just you.

Re the Merger - This is common knowledge - sorry if it's only news to you.

Apart from the four bodies I mentioned what are the other main bodies in Ireland? Do you think I should only have mentioned the first three, perhaps?

Despite your trollish behavior, there are nine prescribed and six recognised accountancy bodies in Ireland, details are here.

Details of the MRD are attached. Have a look on page 54.

It's ironic that you ask others to provide evidence to back up their statements and in the same post admit that your own opinions are based on anecdotal experiences.

tenchi-fan

censuspro wrote: »

Despite your trollish behavior, there are nine prescribed and six recognised accountancy bodies in Ireland, details are here.

Aw I love it.. three of them are the chartered accountants bodies (Irish Chartered accountants, England and Wales, and Scotland)

But census pro is right

Fishyfreak

Fishyfreak - Ranting and Raving forum - - - >

smcgiff

I presume the reason you’re being obtuse about the main accounting bodies in Ireland is because you feel slighted and resorting to pedantry. Some of the prescribed bodies have miniscule memberships in Ireland even compared to the CPA, I know exactly how many there are as noted in the sticky above and the linked documents.

Re the MRD – if you’d pointed this out from the start this thread would have been 2 posts. It’s also very interesting because future potential hires will now have to provide details of exam results to ensure they qualified with the organisation they are now members. <See Edit below - MRD entry is hardly automatic or even easy>

I originally used the word anecdotal in my remarks, so there’s hardly a point in you continually raising it. What else can my personal experiences be? I also very much doubt they are news to you.

OP,

You could contact ACCA or CAI to progress to those memberships. It would be interesting to see how someone gets on.

Just read up on the requirements to join ACCA as kindly provided by censuspro. As a CPA you would be exempt from taking any written exams to become a member of ACCA, but you would have to sit a one to two hour oral interview where you would be questioned on knowledge essential to the pursuit of the profession – the interview would be more extensive if you intended to practice.

For those applying for ACCA membership only, the oral examination covers those subjects in which ACCA members outside public practice would be expected
to demonstrate competence: management accounting, financial management and financial accounting. Applicants may wish to revise areas covered in ACCA
Papers 2.4 (Financial Management and Control), 2.5 (Financial Reporting), 3.5 (Strategic BusinessPlanning and Development), 3.6 (Advanced Corporate Reporting) and 3.7 (Strategic Financial Management).

Maybe someone can provide information regarding this process? What kind of questions were asked etc.

censuspro

smcgiff wrote: »

I originally used the word anecdotal in my remarks, so there’s hardly a point in you continually raising it. What else can my personal experiences be? I also very much doubt they are news to you.

I was just highlighting the fact that, by your own admission, your posts are based on anecdotal evidence, however when someone challenges you on your remarks you ask them to provide factual evidence to back up their argument. It's only fair that in future when you embark on another of these campaigns, you provide the same factual evidence that you request of others?

smcgiff

censuspro wrote: »

I was just highlighting the fact that, by your own admission, your posts are based on anecdotal evidence, however when someone challenges you on your remarks you ask them to provide factual evidence to back up their argument. It's only fair that in future when you embark on another of these campaigns, you provide the same factual evidence that you request of others?

What proof would you like for my anecdotal experiences?!? They cannot be proven - that's why I prefaced my remarks with the word anecdotal.

However, that does not mean they are without credibility. Are we not allowed to detail our own experiences, especially if we highlight them as such?

By all means challenge them if you think they are untrue. BTW, do you think my experiences are unlikely to be true / or not representative?

I've nothing against CPA's, however I do question why they went that route in the first place. I've not change my mind.

Fishyfreak

Fishyfreak... Take it up with the Category moderators.

dbran

Hi Folks

I don't think that this thread is going anywhere useful anymore so I'm going to lock it before it degenerates any further.

Kind Regards

dbran