Faulty Laptop bought from Argos

Dubh Geannain

Apologies in advance, this might be a little long.

I purchased a laptop from Argos in August 2009. In the last month the screen started going green the odd time for about a week until eventually the machine died. It no longer powers up.

I returned it to Argos and asked them to repair/replace or refund the product. They said they had to send it away to their laptop repair department before they’d decide what to do.

Two weeks later after calling back into them, they call me back to say that they only cover items for 1 year. I informed them of the EU directive 1999/44/EC which entitles a consumer to a minimum warranty of 2 years from a seller. They went away and contacted their legal team and came to me saying it doesn’t apply to them.

Confused, I rang the NCA. They informed me that “The Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act” is the better document to be quoting to them. So I rang their customer support office in the UK this time. I was informed that they are aware of it and are covered under “a duty of care” or something along those lines and that if I wanted the matter resolved I’d have to produce an independent report that states that the problem is a manufacturing defect. Then they might be able to help me. This report would be at my own expense obviously and getting such a report would involve taking the laptop apart I presume?

I have no paper records of my contacts with Argos so far, so should I write a letter of complaint to them quoting Consumer Laws? Or should I go straight to the small claims court? Do I even have a case? (The NCA seemed to think so anyway, but I’d like to see what others think)

Thanks for persevering and reading

Edit: One more thing. They currently have my laptop. Should I just call in and collect it?

jor el

Write a letter first, outlining what you want and what you will do if you don't get a response. Ask them what independent assessment they would accept (I could give you one, but they'd be unlikely to recognise it). Leave the laptop with them for the moment.

If they don't respond favourably, then Small Claims is probably the way to go.

Dubh Geannain

jor el wrote: »

Write a letter first, outlining what you want and what you will do if you don't get a response. Ask them what independent assessment they would accept (I could give you one, but they'd be unlikely to recognise it). Leave the laptop with them for the moment.

If they don't respond favourably, then Small Claims is probably the way to go.

Not that I'd accuse anyone of underhandedness but I'd be afraid of the laptop being bumped and bruised a bit while with them.

I was thinking of calling to collect it and handing them the letter of complaint at the same time. Or should I send via registered post?

Re: the engineers report. I really don't think it'll achieve much. I'm an electronic engineer myself and I'm of the opinion that the graphics chip has gone kaput. How is that proven, when the thing won't even switch on?

Just read Boggles thread there about Curry's. An interesting read.

wmpdd3

Easiest way to find out is to borrow a graphics card and see if it works, could be a few things.

Looks like scc, but you may have to get someone else to look at it, just to prove it wasn't physically damaged. Basically you need some one to agree one of the laptops componts has ceased to function.

Dubh Geannain

Called to collect it this evening. I told them I was going to get an engineer's report.

As they're saying it's out of warranty is it safe to assume it can now be opened ?

Getting a replacement graphics card is out of the question as I'm pretty sure it's integrated on the motherboard.

Regarding this report would something along the lines of the following suffice?

The laptop screen had turned green on three separate occasions (over the course of a day and a half). After each occurrence the display then returned to normal and the laptop continued to operate normally. Eventually, after the last time the laptop was switched off, it no longer powered up. Attempts to start the unit didn’t produce any response from the screen and the BIOS stage of the boot routine was never reached. The slow deterioration in functionality before eventual failure suggests a latent failure of a component as opposed to a sudden failure brought about by misuse or impact. Also, no indications of impacts or misuse are evident on the casing of the unit. No components appear to have become dislodged after applying a tilt test on the unit.

The hard drive still operates correctly as this was removed to backup saved data before sending the unit back to Argos for repair.

The power supply continues to work correctly and provides the required voltage. It also successfully charges the laptop battery, which has an inbuilt level check. So a power supply failure can be ruled out. The fact that the screen doesn’t light up at power-on would suggest an issue with the screen or possibly the motherboard. However, connecting an external monitor to the laptop via its VGA connector doesn’t produce an image either. So it is unlikely to be a screen issue, which is a common problem with laptops that have been dropped. Therefore, it is most likely a motherboard fault. A full diagnosis of the problem could probably only be achieved via an assessment by the original equipment manufacturer, Samsung.

Also, having contacted Samsung about the problem, it was deduced that the fault was a hardware problem and not a software one.

Considering the expense incurred in the purchase of the laptop and the expected lifetime of such a device (it can reasonably be expected for a laptop to last well beyond the 17months in this case), the device is clearly not fit for purpose as described in the Sale of Goods and Services Act.

The above is an assessment without the unit being opened.

Also, is it okay to get an engineer from work to put his name to something like this, I don't want to be forking out any more than I have to on this?

4545lkjo454

You should read this thread:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056087943&page=6

Dubh Geannain

Yep. Read that thread already. I'm going to send a letter to them today asking them to resolve the issue, enclosing a report along the lines of the one I quoted above but signed by a work colleague who actually did help me verify the in-operability of the laptops. I'll be stating that the matter will be referred to the Small Claims Court if I don't get a reply back within 10 days.

My only question now is, is this report technical enough or do we need to go opening it up and taking a few pictures?

I'm sending this off today regardless as this has been dragging on for a few weeks.

sky6

I wouldn't open up the machine as that may void your rights. Did they ask you to get an independent report in writing or verbally. Don't take anything verbally from them. Also I would ask them for a copy of their engineers report. They may not give it to you but it's just more ammunition to back up your case. It will also demonstrate your case that as an ELT ENG yourself your trying to understand their position. You don't have to register your letter to them. just take it to their customer service desk in store and hand it in and get them to sign for receiving it. Also have a witness with you. Maybe even get them to photograph you handing it over. If you don't get satisfaction then go to the SCC. bring all you evidence.

whiterebel

Don't open it. Its not up to you to prove there is manufacturing fault with it.
I WOULD though, read up on the Sale of Goods Act etc, quoting the European Directive is useless here as we never enacted it fully.

NewHillel

whiterebel wrote: »

the European Directive is useless here as we never enacted it fully.

According to the EU Report on the implementation of Directive 1999/44/EC , the Directive is transcribed into Irish Law in Statuary Instrument S.I. No. 11/2003.
(Plain English, it is now part of the Sales of Goods act.)

whiterebel

NewHillel wrote: »

According to the EU Report on the implementation of Directive 1999/44/EC , the Directive is transcribed into Irish Law in Statuary Instrument S.I. No. 11/2003.
(Plain English, it is now part of the Sales of Goods act.)

Note it says "certain aspects". Confirmed by Consumer Association and Conor Pope. 2 years was never implemented, as irish Govt believe SoGA offers more protection.

Dubh Geannain

Well I've been in contact with the SCC. They told me they need the Legal name for Argos before they can proceed.

For example: Currys and PC Worlds are tradenames of DSG Retail Limited

I've had a look around their website and from what I can see Argos is also their legal name. I'd rather not have to ring them up to find out. But if I have to I will.

Anyone know where I can find this out?

Thanks

Dubh Geannain

Would "Home Retail Group" be the correct respondent for the claim?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Home_Retail_Group

johndoe99

this doesn't inspire to to buy PCs from Argos, was considering buying my next PC there, think i'll stick with Dell.

DOC09UNAM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Home_Retail_Group

Fairly sure that should be it.

edit - late as always :pac:

sky6

Don't phone them, Write to them and request there properly registered title as you wish to send them some legal documents.
So far as I know they are legally obliged to give there proper legal title when requested. Also it may convince them that they need to rethink their strategy.
If they don't respond it just give you more ammunition for your file when going to the SSC. Good luck

Dubh Geannain

sky6 wrote: »

Don't phone them, Write to them and request there properly registered title as you wish to send them some legal documents.
So far as I know they are legally obliged to give there proper legal title when requested. Also it may convince them that they need to rethink their strategy.
If they don't respond it just give you more ammunition for your file when going to the SSC. Good luck

Thanks. But it's already at the SCC. They rang me today to clarify the Legal name for Argos before proceeding as they were pretty sure it's wasn't Argos.

I have sent correspondence to Argos already via registered post and have not heard anything back from them. That's why I've gone to the SCC.

busman

Dubh Geannain wrote: »

Well I've been in contact with the SCC. They told me they need the Legal name for Argos before they can proceed.

For example: Currys and PC Worlds are tradenames of DSG Retail Limited

I've had a look around their website and from what I can see Argos is also their legal name. I'd rather not have to ring them up to find out. But if I have to I will.

Anyone know where I can find this out?

Thanks

From their website :

The Argos website is operated by
Argos Distributors (Ireland) Limited
Unit C1, Gullivers Retail Park
Ballymun Road
Santry
Dublin 9

Registered in Ireland with Company Number 43174

Dubh Geannain

Thanks Busman. I've just checked the Argos catalogue now and that's what's stated in it.

foggy_lad

i cant help thinking that if all these foreign companies and some irish ones that seem to trample on Irish consumers rights were in any way decent or honest they would be only glad to turn up in the small claims court and would honestly provide their registered company name for all to see!

Dubh Geannain

SCC contacted me today. Argos are going to give me a refund

I'm down the €15 to submit the Small claims and €5 for the registered post but at least it's not in Argos's pocket. I'm guessing a repair would have cost more than that anyway.

Dubh Geannain

I should have added. I'm still in possession of the laptop, not that it's much use at this stage.

Pkiernan

Good job - it's great to see people getting results like this.

wmpdd3

Confused, I rang the NCA. They informed me that “The Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act” is the better document to be quoting to them. So I rang their customer support office in the UK this time. I was informed that they are aware of it and are covered under “a duty of care” or something along those lines and that if I wanted the matter resolved I’d have to produce an independent report that states that the problem is a manufacturing defect. Then they might be able to help me. This report would be at my own expense obviously and getting such a report would involve taking the laptop apart I presume?

Can't beat the old head office legal team, wont allow the store staff to do a thing for the customer then fold completely when the customer exercises their rights.

Fair play to the OP, refund of the price of a laptop at 2009 prices is a windfall, you could probably buy 2 on them now!