Our Trade Union Leaders & Interest - Who controls what sectors , spending and policy

CDfm

I have been a bit surprised with the Government Minister thread because it implies that government ministers actually exercise more authority then the actually do over their Departments.When in reality they are just one part of policy intiation and implementation.

Since the Lemass era c 1960 , unions, special interest groups & government departments and their senior civil servants have formulated policy and have the power to refuse to agree with and impliment policy.

If we take the Croke Park Agreement -the cost of non implementation has now exceeded the bailout of Anglo Irish Bank.

In that way, it contributed in no small way to Irelands IMF/EU Bailout as the Government and Ministers could not initiate those changes nesscessary to effect the cost savings needed.

So who are these shadowy figures who weild huge power that control our national destiny. I have heard of them but do not know who they are.

My question here is who prevented Croke's implementation and how did they use their power. ?

Also of interest is the value of the sector they control ?

The_Thing

CDfm wrote: »

If we take the Croke Park Agreement -the cost of non implementation has now exceeded the bailout of Anglo Irish Bank.

Have you proof of that or is this just another excuse for a public-sector bashing thread?

CDfm

The_Thing wrote: »

Have you proof of that or is this just another excuse for a public-sector bashing thread?

It isn't a public sector bashing thread , if you read what I posted, it concerns who the decision makers are.

You may quibble about the juxtaposition of Croke Park and Anglo Irish but it was government policy that Croke Park be implimented and it was not.The Dail, will of the people and so on.

So the decisions were made by Union Leaders and Interest Group Leaders.

It is a foregone conclusion that there will be a change of government and whoever wins will need to do business with those people and I am interested in who's who and what kind of power they lead.

A big part of their success or failure will center around their ability to manage those relationships. Brian Cowan was not able to manage his relationships with his coalition partners but also these leaders.

That is why it is important.

RichardAnd

CDfm wrote: »

My question here is who prevented Croke's implementation and how did they use their power. ?

The CP deal is being implemented, isn't it?

The_Thing

RichardAnd wrote: »

The CP deal is being implemented, isn't it?

I thought so too, that is why I queried the OP.

CDfm

The_Thing wrote: »

I thought so too, that is why I queried the OP.

A view I hold was that the delay in implimentation meant the government was not able to react to the bond markets etc. and that contributed to the IMF/EU Bail Out.

The conditions that existed when it was negotiated changed very quickly.

Fine Gael when they get into power do not feel bound by it. It was envisaged pre-bailout.The view being the country cannot affort Croke Park.

http://newswhip.ie/national-2/explainer-the-croke-park-agreement-and-its-prospects-for-survival

However, the core question is still the same , who are the decision makers on behalf of the unions and who are the interest group leaders that will have to be negotiated with.

So who are the people who the new administration will have to negotiate with.

later12

CDfm wrote: »

A view I hold was that the delay in implimentation meant the government was not able to react to the bond markets etc. and that contributed to the IMF/EU Bail Out.

I agree with the crux of the Original Post, but this is not really an issue. Fund managers see (and saw) Ireland as untouchable because of domestic and sovereign debt, not because of hesitency on contraction of public spending (austerity). They seem quite assured about the austerity drive, they're just not convinced about the ability of austerity to balance out the debt crisis. If we have learned anything in the Eurozone, it's that there is consensus that austerity, while beneficial, is not enough to change the market perception.

CDfm

Maybe so, but one thing has been that our politicians have been unable to act decisively and confidently when needed. During the summer Lenihan & Cowan , moved at a snails pace.

When I look at economic commentary I see that the policies of the various "decision makers" and interest groups and the interpersonal relationships between them and the politicians and political parties are being analysed and for the life of me I don't know who the people that they are talking about are.

I think that if these people are making decisions which affect us and the way we are governed then we should know who they are. It is a bit ridiculous that we don't.

Actually, I dont agree with you on fund management sentiment, but that is a side issue as to who the decision makers are.

CDfm

According to John Bruton the Dail is not in charge and if the government isn't well who is?

This is what he said

“We have a sort of civil service led system of administration which uses the Dáil and the senate as a delivery
mechanism.”

This guy was Taoiseach , I'd listen to him.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/0106/breaking44.html

So this is what NCB Stockbrokers say

Aside from the usual considerations - - growth prospects, political and social atmosphere - - on the solvency of a sovereign, there are two other significant drivers in Ireland’s case at the current juncture:

a) Political decision in the EU – EFSF interest rate, ESM interest rate, conditions
b) Irish policy makers decisions on the Irish banking system

http://www.finfacts.ie/irishfinancenews/article_1021419.shtml

Or this

Questions have been raised about turning the aspirations of the agreement in to reality. Oversight, or “performance verification” will be provided by a six person implementation body which will comprise an independent chair and six persons, three nominated by public service management and three by the Public Services Committee of ICTU.

http://newswhip.ie/national-2/explainer-the-croke-park-agreement-and-its-prospects-for-survival

Can six people, three of them union reps, really be trusted to oversee the restructuring of dozens of organisations and departments with hundreds of thousands of employees? The three non-union representatives will be nominated by “public sector management”. However, both public service unions and public sector management are widely seen as a part of the problem, and are therefore unlikely to be part of the solution: Is the fox in charge of the hen-house?

Again , elusive policymakers are quoted and if John Bruton is to be believed -who are they.

I would have thought it was a very simple question but it appears not to be.