Government now a minority Government

Dionysus

Any bets on the new election date?

And is there any website out there which has a list of every candidate in each constituency? When will all parties have their candidates?

yosemite_sam

Asap please

oppenheimer1

The government hasn't collapsed - not yet anyway.

Trotter

My guess.. Feb 18th or 25th

Corsendonk

Dionysus wrote: »

Any bets on the new election date?

And is there any website out there which has a list of every candidate in each constituency? When will all parties have their candidates?

Well i asked the question here what was the cut off point for the declaration of candidates in a general election to allow printing of ballot papers but no one seems to have an idea.

I use electionsireland but its not too accurate, and you have to go through the politics.ie individual constituency threads to find the candidates in each, more accurate but just too time consuming.

snubbleste

Misleading title.
The government is still there, it's a minority government.

Dionysus

Corsendonk wrote: »

Well i asked the question here what was the cut off point for the declaration of candidates in a general election to allow printing of ballot papers but no one seems to have an idea.

I use electionsireland but its not too accurate, and you have to go through the politics.ie individual constituency threads to find the candidates in each, more accurate but just too time consuming.

That was just as I feared. I'm still trying to find a list of all candidates in my constituency but I'm having no luck.

I came across what seems to be a new, and informative, website but it, too, doesn't seem to be comprehensive: Campaign Trail.ie

Cian92

I'm hearing February 25th...

snubbleste

Corsendonk wrote: »

Well i asked the question here what was the cut off point for the declaration of candidates in a general election to allow printing of ballot papers but no one seems to have an idea.

You must submit your nomination paper to the returning officer for your constituency by 12 noon on the 7th day after the issue of the writ (Dáil being dissolved) by the Dáil to the returning officer.

InchicoreDude

A campaign of possibly only 3 weeks and some parties havent even nominated candidates yet. What a shambles this is. March 11th was a perfect date for the simple fact that it takes some time to prepare for an election. How does it help when parties are going to have rush through potential candidates now? Will voters even get to see and hear the potential candiates views? There are a lot of issues with having a quick election. I can see very little advantage that an election is brought forward to feb 25th from march 11th.

galway2007

All this going on and not a sign of Enda Kenny
Where the **** is Enda Kenny
Then we have FF playing a game of delaying the finance bill just to hold on and we have FG and laour putting the finance bill at risk just to get them out
For **** sake they are all a shower of pricks who only care about power and it a shame we don’t have an army to take over this state

dan_d

How can you have a list when the Gov is still in power (for the moment?)
Apparently they still have the minimum number of ministers required under the constitution.
Obviously Cowen should dissolve the Dail.However the fat lady hasn't sung (quite) yet! They're still going, so I'd imagine looking for a list right now is probably going to be a bit fruitless.

Het-Field

galway2007 wrote: »

All this going on and not a sign of Enda Kenny
Where the **** is Enda Kenny
Then we have FF playing a game of delaying the finance bill just to hold on and we have FG and laour putting the finance bill at risk just to get them out
For **** sake they are all a shower of pricks who only care about power and it a shame we don’t have an army to take over this state

It doesnt matter where Enda Kenny is.

The current Government has one mandate left. That is the passage of the Finance Bill. It would appear that the Greens will do it from the other side of the house. Once that is done, the already tenuious mandate will expire.

The past week has been a godsend for the opposition. Nothing has been required of them. On Sunday, Martin and Hanafin attempted to shift Cowen. On Tuesday the shift failed. On Tuesday, Martin resigned his ministerial position. On Wednesday Harney, Kileen, Dempsey and Ahern quit. On Thursday the Greens blocked moves by FF to cynically utilise Ministerial office as launchpad for the likes of Peter Power, and Dara Callery. Later on Thursday, Batt O Keefe quit. On Friday, Cowen blames the Greens for denying his "prerogative". On Saturday, the FF party declare de facto "no confidence" in Cowen and he quits.

The farce that has been ongoing over the past week in FF has made it very easy for Kenny to step back.

Trotter

I actually think Enda Kenny has done very well this week. We don't expect Alex Ferguson to be scoring goals for Utd, and in the same way, Enda has sent the right people out to the media at the right times.

Im tired of people criticising his mannerisms, lack of charisma, etc etc.. He is managing a team and recently I've been impressed with the team, and therefore impressed with him.

Im not a member/supporter of any party so I can honestly say it as I see it.
This week he's done well in my opinion because his people have done well.

nesf

Thread title changed to something more accurate.

Patser

Jaysus FF in meltdown and people try to focus on Enda. As Napoleon said

'Never interrupt your enemy when he's making a mistake'

Enda's right to sit back and let the spotlight stay on Cowen et al's struggles

Little Mickey

Corsendonk wrote: »

Well i asked the question here what was the cut off point for the declaration of candidates in a general election to allow printing of ballot papers but no one seems to have an idea.

If they used the e-voting machines they wouldn't have such a problem, just input the candidate names the day before

Balmed Out

Id nearly prefer the March date so I could figure out what I want to vote FOR rather then vote for anyone to get the present idiots out.

Mr.Micro

Can one believe the neck of Biffo and he like Nero while the country is in crisis and his rotten party on the rocks. I am not a bit surprised that the Greens pulled the plug.......him staying on in power was too much. Its all about FF and its business and not the country. reading in he paper to day he is described as " no ear for political advice, no respect or belief in polling data,no interest or feel for the media,indifferent to the need for delicate party and Coalition management" = BIFFO

Einhard

InchicoreDude wrote: »

A campaign of possibly only 3 weeks and some parties havent even nominated candidates yet. What a shambles this is. March 11th was a perfect date for the simple fact that it takes some time to prepare for an election. How does it help when parties are going to have rush through potential candidates now? Will voters even get to see and hear the potential candiates views? There are a lot of issues with having a quick election. I can see very little advantage that an election is brought forward to feb 25th from march 11th.

The parties won;t have to rush through their selection processes because, for the most part, they've anticpated this eventuality months ago and have already selected their candidates. The only major party which doesn't apply to is, quelle surprise, Fianna Fail, which is in utter chaos at a grass roots level as well as nationally. One can't expect that an election be held off to aid a party in such a shambles that it hasn't gotten around to the most basic prerequisite of running a campaign- choosing candidates. And the advantage is obvious- the sooner we replace this government and consign the farce that has been the past few weeks, the better. Cowen survived a leadership heave, fumbled a reshuffle, and was faced with fresh calls for him to resign in one 24 hour period- can you imagine the damage that he and FF might further inflict on the nation in a 48 day period? I'm not rabidly anti-FF, and I think Cowen and his government did what they thought was right at the time, but we need to put this current administration, and by extension the country, out of its misery as soon as possible.

Balmed Out wrote: »

Id nearly prefer the March date so I could figure out what I want to vote FOR rather then vote for anyone to get the present idiots out.

There'll likely be a 3 week campaign, beginning from next week. Surely a solid month is enough time for your to have a look at the policies of the various parties and make up your mind accordingly?

hallelujajordan

So, yes I am a FF supporter, but no, this is not an attempt to shift attention away from FF . . In fact as I outlined on another thread I intend to vote for FG in the upcoming GE and based on where we stand today I believe our best option as a country is probably a FG overall majority (however unlikely that might be). .

But I too am surprised that whenever anything major happens, Enda is absent ? Is this deliberate and strategic or is it just incompetent ? In some respects, I agree with others. . don't interfere while your opponent is in self-destruct mode . . but FG deputies are in the media (usually either Hayes or Varadkar), and they are involved in the process particularly over the last couple of days but Enda is nowhere to be seen ? If nothing else, surely there is an opportunity for him to look statesmanlike in contrast to his opponent.

At the same time, the most recent opinion polls show Labour overtaking FG again (29% versus 27%) and Gilmore continues to lord it over Kenny in the personal satisfaction ratings (55% versus 29%) . .

If it is a deliberate strategy, its not working !

Einhard

hallelujajordan wrote: »

So, yes I am a FF supporter, but no, this is not an attempt to shift attention away from FF . . In fact as I outlined on another thread I intend to vote for FG in the upcoming GE and based on where we stand today I believe our best option as a country is probably a FG overall majority (however unlikely that might be). .

I'd agree with your about a FG overall majority being the best option at the moment, but I really don't understand how anyone can describe themselves as a supporter of FF, or of any political party for that matter. Surely it makes more sense to judge a party on their individual manifestos and policies, rather than permanently aligning onself with one party, almost irrespective of its agenda? Why exactly makes you a FF supporter?

But I too am surprised that whenever anything major happens, Enda is absent ? Is this deliberate and strategic or is it just incompetent ? In some respects, I agree with others. . don't interfere while your opponent is in self-destruct mode . . but FG deputies are in the media (usually either Hayes or Varadkar), and they are involved in the process particularly over the last couple of days but Enda is nowhere to be seen ? If nothing else, surely there is an opportunity for him to look statesmanlike in contrast to his opponent.

At the same time, the most recent opinion polls show Labour overtaking FG again (29% versus 27%) and Gilmore continues to lord it over Kenny in the personal satisfaction ratings (55% versus 29%) . .

If it is a deliberate strategy, its not working !

I think FG are playing to their strengths in the media, and unfortunately for them, Kenny is not a great performer in that realm. However, I think that that particulr quality is goven far too much focus when assessing a politicans competence for a particular job. Kenny, to use Brian Farrell's words, is a chairman rather than a chief. He builds a strong team around him, and his role is effectively to co-ordinate that team. He is, in a way that was alien to the likes of Blair and Ahern, first among equals. And that's exactly what Ireland needs right now. Someone who's not to flash, who might even get stuck for words in front of the camera, but who's industrious and willing to work behind the scenes rather than chewing the scenery as the star attraction.

It's interesting to note that in 1994, John Bruton was in a very similar position. His personal ratings were in the doldrums, he appeared ill at ease in dealing with the media, and didn't have the charisma of some of the other figures in his party. Yet a week or so later, after the collapse of the Reynolds government, he was taioseach, and a rather good one too. So, I say give Enda a chance. I admit, I was rooting for Richard Bruton in the challenge last year, but was impressed with the way Kenny both saw him off, and cauterised any potential wounds in the reconstitution of his front bench. I think he'll be a fine, if unspectacular taioseach, and that's exactly what we need as a people, as we seek to rebuild Ireland's shattered image, and more importantly, our shattered economy.

Trotter

hallelujajordan wrote: »

But I too am surprised that whenever anything major happens, Enda is absent ? Is this deliberate and strategic or is it just incompetent ? In some respects, I agree with others. . don't interfere while your opponent is in self-destruct mode . . but FG deputies are in the media (usually either Hayes or Varadkar), and they are involved in the process particularly over the last couple of days but Enda is nowhere to be seen ? If nothing else, surely there is an opportunity for him to look statesmanlike in contrast to his opponent.

If his strategy is however not to 'do a Bertie' on it and to allow the team he has assembled to do the talking in the areas they are best qualified, then surely it is a strategy that works? Its fairly well known that Kenny for example was involved in or behind Noonan's offer to the Greens on 6.1 to give them to Friday to get the Finance Bill through. Noonan however, delivered the interview, as is his strength.

If the country is run well by FG, I don't care if I never see Enda Kenny on the TV to be honest.

hallelujajordan

Trotter wrote: »

If his strategy is however not to 'do a Bertie' on it and to allow the team he has assembled to do the talking in the areas they are best qualified, then surely it is a strategy that works? Its fairly well known that Kenny for example was involved in or behind Noonan's offer to the Greens on 6.1 to give them to Friday to get the Finance Bill through.

If the country is run well by FG, I don't care if I never see Enda Kenny on the TV to be honest.

If the strategy was working, then FG would not have been overtaken by Labour in the most recent opinion poll and they would surely be pushing toward an overall majority. .

Their is a balance between standing back and empowering your expert team and showing leadership and Kenny has the balance wrong !

GSF

I'd hope that Enda is doing 2 things at the moment:

1) Preparing for the election debate(s) so that he doesnt blow it like last time

and much more importantly

2) Preparing for a radical first 100 days in government. If FG aren't radical they will get chucked out just as quickly as Cowen. I want to see 100 days in which TDs salaries & pensions are radically altered, a set of referenda are prepared to alter judges pay, abolish the senate and also to ammend all the other things that should be done but cant be done today because of constitutional issues. I'd like to see a referendum day by September at the latest where the people would be asked to vote on them all in one go.

GSF

hallelujajordan wrote: »

If the strategy was working, then FG would not have been overtaken by Labour in the most recent opinion poll

the weren't. The last Red C had FG at about 34/35 versus labour on 21/22?

selfobsessed

Trotter wrote: »

If his strategy is however not to 'do a Bertie' on it and to allow the team he has assembled to do the talking in the areas they are best qualified, then surely it is a strategy that works? Its fairly well known that Kenny for example was involved in or behind Noonan's offer to the Greens on 6.1 to give them to Friday to get the Finance Bill through. Noonan however, delivered the interview, as is his strength.

If the country is run well by FG, I don't care if I never see Enda Kenny on the TV to be honest.

It won't be run by FG or Lab but by civil servants who will do things the same way as they told FF what to do.

hallelujajordan

Einhard wrote: »

I'd agree with your about a FG overall majority being the best option at the moment, but I really don't understand how anyone can describe themselves as a supporter of FF, or of any political party for that matter. Surely it makes more sense to judge a party on their individual manifestos and policies, rather than permanently aligning onself with one party, almost irrespective of its agenda? Why exactly makes you a FF supporter?

Of course you are right . . that's why I intend to vote FG this time . . ! The logic of joining and supporting a single party is that through membership you can seek to influence their policies and drive the agenda that you believe in. . .

I think FG are playing to their strengths in the media, and unfortunately for them, Kenny is not a great performer in that realm. However, I think that that particulr quality is goven far too much focus when assessing a politicans competence for a particular job. Kenny, to use Brian Farrell's words, is a chairman rather than a chief. He builds a strong team around him, and his role is effectively to co-ordinate that team. He is, in a way that was alien to the likes of Blair and Ahern, first among equals. And that's exactly what Ireland needs right now. Someone who's not to flash, who might even get stuck for words in front of the camera, but who's industrious and willing to work behind the scenes rather than chewing the scenery as the star attraction.

It's interesting to note that in 1994, John Bruton was in a very similar position. His personal ratings were in the doldrums, he appeared ill at ease in dealing with the media, and didn't have the charisma of some of the other figures in his party. Yet a week or so later, after the collapse of the Reynolds government, he was taioseach, and a rather good one too. So, I say give Enda a chance. I admit, I was rooting for Richard Bruton in the challenge last year, but was impressed with the way Kenny both saw him off, and cauterised any potential wounds in the reconstitution of his front bench. I think he'll be a fine, if unspectacular taioseach, and that's exactly what we need as a people, as we seek to rebuild Ireland's shattered image, and more importantly, our shattered economy.

I will give him a chance and I agree with you regarding Bruton . . but I do worry that the Chairman will not have the strength required to control the ego's both within his and his coalition partners cabinet. . We need stability and stability requires leadership . .

hallelujajordan

hallelujajordan wrote: »

So, yes I am a FF supporter,

dear God!! How ??????????????

NapoleonInRags

Trotter wrote: »

I actually think Enda Kenny has done very well this week. We don't expect Alex Ferguson to be scoring goals for Utd, and in the same way, Enda has sent the right people out to the media at the right times.

Im tired of people criticising his mannerisms, lack of charisma, etc etc.. He is managing a team and recently I've been impressed with the team, and therefore impressed with him.

Im not a member/supporter of any party so I can honestly say it as I see it.
This week he's done well in my opinion because his people have done well.

Well said indeed. It's disgraceful the amount of people in this country who are judging Enda Kenny based solely on whether they'd like to have a pint with him or not!

hallelujajordan

GSF wrote: »

the weren't. The last Red C had FG at about 34/35 versus labour on 21/22?

Depends which poll you look at . . most recent poll in todays Sunday Independent has FG on 27%, Labour on 29% . .

St._Andalou

Dionysus wrote: »

Any bets on the new election date?

And is there any website out there which has a list of every candidate in each constituency? When will all parties have their candidates?

http://electionsireland.org/results/general/31stdail/candidates.cfm

Einhard

hallelujajordan wrote: »

Of course you are right . . that's why I intend to vote FG this time . . ! The logic of joining and supporting a single party is that through membership you can seek to influence their policies and drive the agenda that you believe in. . .

So you're responsible for the mess we're in?!:D

Seriously though, I'm interested in why you chose FF. They basically wrecked the economy with the give away manifesto of Lynch in the 70s, and have now done so again. I want rid of FF, not so much for their decisions under Cowen, but the disastarous policy of buying off dissenting voices operated under Bertie. Yet the FFers I hear who are going to rip up their membership cards etc, don't seem to have any problem witht hat kind of cynical and costly exercise.

NapoleonInRags

hallelujajordan wrote: »

Depends which poll you look at . . most recent poll in todays Sunday Independent has FG on 27%, Labour on 29% . .

Sunday Independent polls are about as reliable as a third hand lawnmower.....

St._Andalou

NapoleonInRags wrote: »

Sunday Independent polls are about as reliable as a third hand lawnmower.....

Polls are a good indicator, but sometimes unreliable and should be taken with a pinch of salt. The fact that it's in the Sunday Independent has nothing to do with it. Papers commission a third-party researcher and don't take the polls themselves. In this case it was Quantum Research.

the groutch

if Labour's motion is what finally brings down the government, it will put them over the top

ISAW

St._Andalou wrote: »

Polls are a good indicator, but sometimes unreliable and should be taken with a pinch of salt. The fact that it's in the Sunday Independent has nothing to do with it. Papers commission a third-party researcher and don't take the polls themselves. In this case it was Quantum Research.

I don't trust the quantum poll. In one poll they added up to 108 per cent!

Sorry 107 on Lisbon!
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/poll-meltdown-for-cowen-gormley-1598238.html

the poll has also picked up on the public's fear, with a huge swing in support of the Lisbon Treaty: 55 per cent (up 16 per cent since we last asked that question in our December 12 poll) now say they will vote Yes, while 37 per cent (down seven per cent) say they will vote No, while 15 per cent are undecided (24 per cent in December).

marmurr1916

hallelujajordan wrote: »

Depends which poll you look at . . most recent poll in todays Sunday Independent has FG on 27%, Labour on 29% . .

This Sunday Independent poll had a simple size of only 200 people (this information was given in the paper), giving it a margin of error of 7%.

It put FF support at 8%.

With the poll's margin of error, the true level of FF support could be anywhere between 1% and 15%.

This poll has almost no credibility.

hallelujajordan

marmurr1916 wrote: »

This Sunday Independent poll had a simple size of only 200 people (this information was given in the paper), giving it a margin of error of 7%.

It put FF support at 8%.

With the poll's margin of error, the true level of FF support could be anywhere between 1% and 15%.

This poll has almost no credibility.

I acknowledge that but it has little impact to the substantive point that an Enda Kenny led FG has failed to capitalise on the FF losses in the manner that they might expect .. . this view is not just based on the most recent Quantum poll. .