Greens blocked cabinet appointments so they should block latetst FF stunt.

gimme5minutes

The greens say they blocked the cabinet appointments because FF were just using the positions as an eletioneering platform and that was unacceptable.

Well Cowen staying on as Taoiseach while resigning as FF leader is EXACTLY the same thing. Its is a pure electioneering exercise so FF can have a fresh face in place for the election. Surely if they blocked the cabinet appointments they will also find this latest FF stroke unacceptable?

ISAW

gimme5minutes wrote: »

Its is a pure electioneering exercise so FF can have a fresh face in place for the election.

I can't be since if FF planned this they would have met and changed the leader anyway and not met and decided to keep him!

It would seem cowan is actually telling the truth and just wants to get the finance Bill out of the way before the government changes. If you read the IMF agreement there are stipulations on the government. A new deal might change the circumstances and cause even greater chaos.
In any case if the Greens vote against FF, FG say they will vote for the Finance Bill.

Eliot Rosewater

gimme5minutes wrote: »

Well Cowen staying on as Taoiseach while resigning as FF leader is EXACTLY the same thing. Its is a pure electioneering exercise so FF can have a fresh face in place for the election. Surely if they blocked the cabinet appointments they will also find this latest FF stroke unacceptable?

How do you propose the Greens intervene in the private workings of Fianna Fail to force Cowen back in as leader?

lugha

gimme5minutes wrote: »

The greens say they blocked the cabinet appointments because FF were just using the positions as an eletioneering platform and that was unacceptable.

Well Cowen staying on as Taoiseach while resigning as FF leader is EXACTLY the same thing. Its is a pure electioneering exercise so FF can have a fresh face in place for the election. Surely if they blocked the cabinet appointments they will also find this latest FF stroke unacceptable?

I don't think that that is the reason Cowen did go. But even if it was, there is nothing wrong with any party making purely internal party changes.
The objection is when the use their powers of office to further their electoral changes, which the "5 spanking new ministers" stunt was perceived to be.

gimme5minutes

Eliot Rosewater wrote: »

How do you propose the Greens intervene in the private workings of Fianna Fail to force Cowen back in as leader?

They can pull out of government and cause an immediate general election which is what the country has been crying out for for the last year. The finance bill can be passed by the new government, FG and Labour have already pointed this out.

The sole reason for Cowen remaining as Taoiseach while not being FF leader is so FF dont have to have his face on posters during the election campaign. They aren't even denying it's an electioneering ploy, they have straight out admitted that the reason they want a new leader while Cowen remains Taoiseach is because they dont want him leading them into the election.

If the Greens had a problem with ministerial offices being used as part of an electioneering stunt, surely they'll have an even bigger problem with the office of Taoiseach being used in the same way?

Eliot Rosewater

gimme5minutes wrote: »

They can pull out of government and cause an immediate general election which is what the country has been crying out for for the last year. The finance bill can be passed by the new government, FG and Labour have already pointed this out.

FG have also pointed out the importance of the Finance Bill being passed, for outsider confidence. Delaying the Finance Bill won't do the country any good. The Greens are living within this inconvenient reality.

gimme5minutes wrote: »

If the Greens had a problem with ministerial offices being used as part of an electioneering stunt, surely they'll have an even bigger problem with the office of Taoiseach being used in the same way?

The two scenarios aren't comparable. On Thursday Cowen attempted to use the Ministries of this country to give 6 of his candidates a boost. FF aren't using the office of Taoiseach to give them a boost. Plus, unlike Thursday, this is a completely internal FF matter.

gizmo555

Eliot Rosewater wrote: »

FF aren't using the office of Taoiseach to give them a boost.

No, they're only saying Cowen is not fit to lead Fianna Fáil, but he is good enough to lead the Irish government.

liammur

lugha wrote: »

I don't think that that is the reason Cowen did go. But even if it was, there is nothing wrong with any party making purely internal party changes.
The objection is when the use their powers of office to further their electoral changes, which the "5 spanking new ministers" stunt was perceived to be.

It is believed Lenihan forced him to go. There will be an election within 4 weeks, the greens have no choice but to pull the plug at this stage.

Eliot Rosewater

gizmo555 wrote: »

No, they're only saying Cowen is not fit to lead Fianna Fáil, but he is good enough to lead the Irish government.

They're not really. If it was convenient the FF party would replace the Taoiseach. However with a maximum of 7 weeks left in his term it would not be proper to do so. Someone trying to learn to be PM of this country in a few weeks, while simultaneously running an election campaign, would be a joke.

gizmo555

Eliot Rosewater wrote: »

They're not really. If it was convenient the FF party would replace the Taoiseach. However with a maximum of 7 weeks left in his term it would not be proper to do so. Someone trying to learn to be PM of this country in a few weeks, while simultaneously running an election campaign, would be a joke.

Rubbish. They're not replacing him as Taoiseach because they know that no more than the replacement of six ministers, they couldn't get the Dáil votes to do it, not because it's inconvenient.

Eliot Rosewater

Well that point of view has merit, too, I think. I myself feel that electing a prime minister for 7 weeks, who will be simultaneously running an election campaign, is not a good thing to do.

(I was going to say it wouldn't be in the "national interest", but FF have totally destroyed the credibility of that phrase!)

Liam Byrne

Does anyone know if those 6 weeks have any impact in Cowen's pension, etc?

Also, I've started to wonder just how much we're being played.....

Disatrous governance + questions over Seanie and suddenly an unflappable Cowen who's brazened everything out by spouting waffle re Lehman's, everyone, going forward, don't accept that is all over the shop?

Now we have Offal-y people being interviewed saying they feel sorry for him, and the focus is on a new Leader for FF and feck-all about FF's sickening record in Govt.

Sponge Bob

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Does anyone know if those 6 weeks have any impact in Cowen's pension, etc?.

No, but he will become the shortest lived FF Leader ( and Taoiseach) in history ( less than Albert) if he loses office before the end of February.

Eliot Rosewater

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Does anyone know if those 6 weeks have any impact in Cowen's pension, etc?

I don't know. But this might be worth considering: http://www.examiner.ie/ireland/cowen-saved-from-being-shortest-serving-taoiseach-142817.html

ISAW

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Does anyone know if those 6 weeks have any impact in Cowen's pension, etc?

As far as i know yo need 2 1/2 years in office and he has had that so the answer is "no It wont change his pension" Is he running again anyway?


Top ten public service pensions received in 2009

1 Former president Mary Robinson €154,467.56; €15,499.96 surrendered

2 Former comptroller and auditor General PL McDonnell €126,383.40

3 Former comptroller and auditor general John Purcell €126.383.40

4 Former taoiseach Albert Reynolds €109,358.08

5 Former taoiseach Garret FitzGerald €103,926.16

6 Former taoiseach John Bruton €100,027.72

7 Former taoiseach Bertie Ahern €98,901.22

8 Former minister Dr Rory O’Hanlon €82,355.04

9 Former attorney general Rory Brady €78,794.56

10 Former tánaiste Dick Spring €76,932.70
[/quote]

Three out of the ten are ex FF ministers.

Maybe some of the five guys who just resigned will make it in but it would be hard to beat Dick Springs 77k.

Finance Accounts 2009 – Statement 1.4 Breakdown of central fund charges in respect of annuities, pensions, etc for former constitutional, ministerial and judicial office-holders.

http://www.finance.gov.ie/documents/publications/reports/2010/finacc1.pdf

Also, I've started to wonder just how much we're being played.....

Disatrous governance + questions over Seanie and suddenly an unflappable Cowen who's brazened everything out by spouting waffle re Lehman's, everyone, going forward, don't accept that is all over the shop?

Now we have Offal-y people being interviewed saying they feel sorry for him, and the focus is on a new Leader for FF and feck-all about FF's sickening record in Govt.

So under one disproved conspiracy is an even bigger one covering it up? sounds a bit like that Corr's fellow eh?

Cowen says he wants to stay in power for the next 8 months
maybe a slip or may have meant 8 weeks its possible he wanted originally to drag this out past march until the summer recess - spend the summer electioneering and had an election thereafter


it was on the interview with Dobson with Anne Cassin giving that famous look at the end

Jeboa Safari

I got the impression that part of the reason for the Greens not backing the reshuffle was to spite FF because they wouldn't back their climate change bill, because they clearly didn't tell FF they would definitely oppose it judging by their dithering responses on Prime Time and Vincent Browne. Looking forward to the Greens being wiped out and FF being decimated anyway, hopefully O'Cuiv gets FF leader to help them on their way even more.

gimme5minutes

Eliot Rosewater wrote: »

FG have also pointed out the importance of the Finance Bill being passed, for outsider confidence. Delaying the Finance Bill won't do the country any good. The Greens are living within this inconvenient reality.

Outside confidence? We have a completely lame duck taoiseach who isn't good enough to lead his own party, and half the cabinet have resigned, the FF party imploding, and we have the minority coalition partner who say they might not even vote confidence in this taoiseach in the next few days. This situation is obviously far far more detrimental to outsider confidence than it would be to bring forward the elections that are due anyway, and then put the finance bill through.

The two scenarios aren't comparable. On Thursday Cowen attempted to use the Ministries of this country to give 6 of his candidates a boost. FF aren't using the office of Taoiseach to give them a boost. Plus, unlike Thursday, this is a completely internal FF matter.

FF are using the office of Taoiseach to give themselves a boost. Several of them straight out admitted yesterday that the sole reason Brian Cowen is being allowed to remain as Taoiseach while not being good enough to lead his own party, is because they want to have a different person leading them into the election. So the sole reason for this absolutely ridiculous situation is to help FF save a few seats in the upcoming election. It is certainly not in the country's interst to have a separate FF leader and Taoiseach. Anyway, they admitted why they are doing this yesterday so I dont see why you are saying this isn't the case, when the FF party itself admitted that it is.

And I have to laugh at 'this is a completely internal matter'. This guy and his party are running the frigging country. How in the name of god do you say this is a 'completely internal matter'? By definition of being in power, massive changes and quarrels in the FF party affect the entire country. Why do I even need to point this out?

TommyKnocker

Eliot Rosewater wrote: »

Someone trying to learn to be PM of this country in a few weeks, while simultaneously running an election campaign, would be a joke.

It honestly couldn't be any more of a joke than Brian Clown over the duration of his tenure.