of dogs and sniping

Graces7

Good morning.

I am not checking threads; once again last night it had gone to a lot of personal sniping which is self-defeating although the frustration is well understood. And if a thread starts on that? We walk.

And, as we came here ten years ago, we are maybe a wee bit more objective..

Ireland is up against antiquated and useless laws where animal welfare is concerned.There is almost no protection in law for critters and a hard core of abusers who think that their way is just fine and no one can touch them. Anyone who works/involves in animal welfare knows this.

And a lot of valuable time and energy is thus spent in what is spitting in the wind. Banging your head against brick walls.

So, please, rather than attacking someone who says rightly that Ireland is notorious where animal welfare is involved? take the hot air to where it will do some good. Agitate, complain. to your TD etc etc; fur farming is finally being banned bcause many did just that. A safer deal for seals was made because folk made so many waves that that was the easiest way for the authorities..
All agree that the animal laws need changing; we can all help do that ( and yes we have involved heavily in campaigns, as, being two badly disabled and penniless pensioners, the pen is mightier than the sword and is often our only weapon.
DO SOMETHING! PLEASE!

We came to Ireland ten years ago; lost count of the number of critters we have saved by these methods.. and of the cost in financial and stress terms.

This for us came to a head last year when we were virtually under police protection for our striving to get help for a wee pony. And we had to leave our home.

And that was not the first time; there was that badly neglected flock of sheep a few years ago; for intervening with the authorities to get help for that? Assaulted. etc etc etc.

Unless and until the laws here are changed? And unless and until we have a properly trained SPCA?
All we can all do is write to TDs, etc etc etc; about hare coursing, about fox hunting, about puppy farming.

And listen to"blow ins" who often have a wealth of experience to offer.

Canada has a huge animal welfare problem. The First Nation peoples treat their dogs appallingly. Dumping them, letting them breed as they choose.
Canada also is huge of course.

So they made laws that can help to deal with this safely. if they seem draconian it is because of the scale of the problem. A dog that bites is instantly reported to the SPCA, which is there a large and very well trained organisation.

With considerable clout....As it should be; animals need and deserve advocacy and support, which they do not have AS A NATION here

The dog gets its "day in court". If the owner is at fault then it is rehomed. If the attack is severe and they assess the dog as being a risk? Then it is put down. And that is right and fair and safe.
This is not hysteria; it is learned wisdom and safety.

It is not an automatic death sentence.

And as has happened in previous threads there is a lack of perception between a warning nip and a vicious and damaging BITE.

Which the SPCA know of course with the training they have there.


Huge TNR schemes there too; and some sterling work here also. We did try to get one lady to do that for the ferals she fed; supplied human traps got vouchers lined up etc, but cats are such low priority; maddening but their choice.

Unless and until Ireland brings in legislation? Abuse will continue sadly and many fine people will continue to battle huge odds and often to no avail.

The man who owned the wee pony was young and had small children who will be taught that what he did was right. The SPCA man there was of the same ilk and had no power as the pony had... food, water, shelter.

He could have done so much more. And yes, he was Irish

We did get the pony out; it took almost five months and involving every animal organisation we could find; in this case the dept of ag let themselves and the critter down.

And cost us our safety and our peace and our home. And thus money we do not have.

It should not be like this. It really should not.

But we deal with reality. And yes, we are outspoken and blunt.

No point in being else now.

We are old now and in dire financial straits with major health issues, and so little we can do. We have four critters here and cannot take in any more.. as it is we are feeding some poor critter every night at the door; no idea what it is as we never see it... maybe one of Ireland;s many stray cats, or a fox.
Matters not. It is hungry so we feed it.

This week I drove past what seems to be a new puppy farm a couple of miles away and so it all starts again.

Thankfully there is an anonymous private help line here...
But we are still bruised from the move etc.

Please; write letters, campaign.. as so many do and as we have always done.
And, please, do something more positive than sniping.
As many here already do.. but so much needed.

Ireland IS the animal abuse capital of Europe and beyond; it can be made better.

We are not returning here; illness again and the need is to take care of the ones we have. Collie would be dead if we had not taken here; that almost cost us that home too...the cats also.
And we cannot manage more.

Blessings and peace this day and all days to all here; we have in common our love of critters so please let us work together.

The Sweeper

I would like to see you extend the same courtesy, tolerance and appreciation for differing opinions that you now request, to all of the other posters on this forum who have put up with your aggressive standpoints, unwavering opinions, lambasting of Ireland and things which are Irish and delivery of your personal opinion as fact for the last year.

lrushe

Graces7 wrote: »

This for us came to a head last year when we were virtually under police protection for our striving to get help for a wee pony. And we had to leave our home.

Grace if you go about your animal rescuing the same way you put yourself across on this forum then I would say that that is the root to your problems. People don't respond to being talked down to which you do each and everytime you reply to a thread. You act like you (and Canada) have the all of the answers to the worlds problem and that other people's opinions aren't as valid, you maybe older than the majority of posters on this forum but that doesn't always make you right, it just means you have been wrong for longer, sit back and listen sometimes and who knows you might just be able to learn something from us antiquated Irish.
Every Irish animal lover is painfully aware of Ireland's problems with Animal Welfare, some devote their lives to changing it some do what they can even if that is just to give the animals they own the best life possible. Animal abuse is a scar on Ireland's reputation, which Irish animal lovers are all too aware of, but everytime you come on here and rub salt into that wound your doing more harm than good.

ISDW

I have no doubt that you will be back - bad internet connection allowing of course. But I understand why you need to take a break, a lot of planning to do, weddings don't arrange themselves.

Maybe when you do come back though you will show the rest of the posters a little bit of christian courtesy? I was going to post a link yesterday to a site titled - best place in the world to be an animal abuser - and it was unfortunately about a place in Canada, not Ireland:eek: But, people on here don't write your homeland off just because of a minority of the population and you really shouldn't do the same about this country. As I've said previously, I think Canada is a fantastic country but the way a large number of the sled dogs are treated there is abysmal, a subject close to my heart.

I have had disagreements with people on here but then we may agree on another topic, its the way of discusson fora, unfortunately however,all of your posts seem slanted to offend as many people as possible, and never allow that someone else may have a valid point.

planetX

Agree with a lot of what you've written OP, as would most people who post here as animal lovers. There's a huge amount of cruelty going on unchallenged.
BUT.... Ireland is NOT the 'animal abuse capital of Europe'. If you have ever travelled in southern european countries you would appreciate that. Not to mention we have less intensive farming here than somewhere like Denmark (something that may be changing unfortunately)
It's better just to concentrate on the issues at hand than start comparing.

EraseAndRewind

Graces7 wrote: »

Good morning.

I am not checking threads; once again last night it had gone to a lot of personal sniping which is self-defeating although the frustration is well understood. And if a thread starts on that? We walk.

And, as we came here ten years ago, we are maybe a wee bit more objective..

Ireland is up against antiquated and useless laws where animal welfare is concerned.There is almost no protection in law for critters and a hard core of abusers who think that their way is just fine and no one can touch them. Anyone who works/involves in animal welfare knows this.

And a lot of valuable time and energy is thus spent in what is spitting in the wind. Banging your head against brick walls.

So, please, rather than attacking someone who says rightly that Ireland is notorious where animal welfare is involved? take the hot air to where it will do some good. Agitate, complain. to your TD etc etc; fur farming is finally being banned bcause many did just that. A safer deal for seals was made because folk made so many waves that that was the easiest way for the authorities..
All agree that the animal laws need changing; we can all help do that ( and yes we have involved heavily in campaigns, as, being two badly disabled and penniless pensioners, the pen is mightier than the sword and is often our only weapon.
DO SOMETHING! PLEASE!

We came to Ireland ten years ago; lost count of the number of critters we have saved by these methods.. and of the cost in financial and stress terms.

This for us came to a head last year when we were virtually under police protection for our striving to get help for a wee pony. And we had to leave our home.

And that was not the first time; there was that badly neglected flock of sheep a few years ago; for intervening with the authorities to get help for that? Assaulted. etc etc etc.

Unless and until the laws here are changed? And unless and until we have a properly trained SPCA?
All we can all do is write to TDs, etc etc etc; about hare coursing, about fox hunting, about puppy farming.

And listen to"blow ins" who often have a wealth of experience to offer.

Canada has a huge animal welfare problem. The First Nation peoples treat their dogs appallingly. Dumping them, letting them breed as they choose.
Canada also is huge of course.

So they made laws that can help to deal with this safely. if they seem draconian it is because of the scale of the problem. A dog that bites is instantly reported to the SPCA, which is there a large and very well trained organisation.

With considerable clout....As it should be; animals need and deserve advocacy and support, which they do not have AS A NATION here

The dog gets its "day in court". If the owner is at fault then it is rehomed. If the attack is severe and they assess the dog as being a risk? Then it is put down. And that is right and fair and safe.
This is not hysteria; it is learned wisdom and safety.

It is not an automatic death sentence.

And as has happened in previous threads there is a lack of perception between a warning nip and a vicious and damaging BITE.

Which the SPCA know of course with the training they have there.


Huge TNR schemes there too; and some sterling work here also. We did try to get one lady to do that for the ferals she fed; supplied human traps got vouchers lined up etc, but cats are such low priority; maddening but their choice.

Unless and until Ireland brings in legislation? Abuse will continue sadly and many fine people will continue to battle huge odds and often to no avail.

The man who owned the wee pony was young and had small children who will be taught that what he did was right. The SPCA man there was of the same ilk and had no power as the pony had... food, water, shelter.

He could have done so much more. And yes, he was Irish

We did get the pony out; it took almost five months and involving every animal organisation we could find; in this case the dept of ag let themselves and the critter down.

And cost us our safety and our peace and our home. And thus money we do not have.

It should not be like this. It really should not.

But we deal with reality. And yes, we are outspoken and blunt.

No point in being else now.

We are old now and in dire financial straits with major health issues, and so little we can do. We have four critters here and cannot take in any more.. as it is we are feeding some poor critter every night at the door; no idea what it is as we never see it... maybe one of Ireland;s many stray cats, or a fox.
Matters not. It is hungry so we feed it.

This week I drove past what seems to be a new puppy farm a couple of miles away and so it all starts again.

Thankfully there is an anonymous private help line here...
But we are still bruised from the move etc.

Please; write letters, campaign.. as so many do and as we have always done.
And, please, do something more positive than sniping.
As many here already do.. but so much needed.

Ireland IS the animal abuse capital of Europe and beyond; it can be made better.

We are not returning here; illness again and the need is to take care of the ones we have. Collie would be dead if we had not taken here; that almost cost us that home too...the cats also.
And we cannot manage more.

Blessings and peace this day and all days to all here; we have in common our love of critters so please let us work together.

mad as a box of frogs

Cherry Blossom

EraseAndRewind wrote: »

mad as a box of frogs

*choke, splutter, cough, cough*

Ah jez, you nearly drowned me in my cup-a-soup!

Farewell Graces7 of royal blood.

fatmammycat

Ireland is NOT the animal cruelty capital of Europe and you repeatedly saying it just gets tiresome.
I lived in Spain for years and could tell you stories that would stand the hair on the back of your neck about animal cruelty. My friend lives and works in Greece, again, massive problems of neglect and cruelty- especially with hunting dogs. ALL countries have their problems. Your notion that this is an Irish problem is beyond insulting and people have clearly run out of patience with your attitude.

dollydishmop

Should one surmise that we are not amused?

Keep up the welfare work, and one day we might have a Royal SPCA as highly trained as the one you refer to after all.

EraseAndRewind wrote: »

mad as a box of frogs

Ah now...coffee warning should have been issued on that one in fairness!

I have some fine arabica dripping off the bottom of my monitor now. :rolleyes:

EGAR

I am a blow-in, and I do rescue for a looooong time now in rural Ireland.

My aim is to educate, not to patronize. In 14 years rescue not once have I been in fear for my life, concerned about personal safety or those close to me.

It's how you handle a situation and do damage control and de-escalate if necessary WITHOUT having to back down.

And all the locals still salute me .

Whispered

EGAR wrote: »

My aim is to educate, not to patronize.

And there is Graces problem. Perhaps she does have (as she claim herself) a "wealth of knowledge", but she has a very bad way of getting it across. I like to think that on this forum, most people are great at taking advice on some things, and giving it on others. Then you have one or two who "advises" by insulting. To be honest, I would like to see Graces come back and share some of her knowledge with us. Perhaps in a nicer, less intolerant way. Some of her points in other threads I think are great, some of her points, are, as I see it, poor excuses for how she approaches some things. I mean she has mentioned herself how many times "they" have had to move due to fights with landlords/locals.

EGAR, as a "blow in" do you think people have less respect for you, do you think it would be easier if you were Irish? I ask because Graces insinuated that she does not get listened to as a "blow-in". But I don't see that with you.

I wonder if it is wise to continue posting in this thread. I can see how it could be seen as ganging up, but then the OP started the thread, I assume with the intention of people responding.

I do admire her last line and if she means it, great! Something we should all take heed of, and act on.

Blessings and peace this day and all days to all here; we have in common our love of critters so please let us work together.

EGAR

Whispered wrote: »

EGAR, as a "blow in" do you think people have less respect for you, do you think it would be easier if you were Irish? I ask because Graces insinuated that she does not get listened to as a "blow-in". But I don't see that with you.

No, I don't think so, actually, it's more of an advantage, I think. I get away with a lot more *ah sure, she's a blow in*. It's the approach I think, a lot of people can't tell straight away what nationality I am and often ask. My standard reply is: "I am a German culchie" and that usually breaks the ice. Some people are more ignorant than others, that's a given .

I have been in many situations which could have easily escalated if I had been patronising. The key is to stay calm and insistent without talking down. I am not saying I am perfect in my dealings with *offenders* but I only got into a shouting match once or twice which, of course, is futile.

dollydishmop

Another 'blow-in' here <waves>

Whispered wrote: »

EGAR, as a "blow in" do you think people have less respect for you, do you think it would be easier if you were Irish? I ask because Graces insinuated that she does not get listened to as a "blow-in".

I'm not EGAR, but I'll throw in a reply if I may

My experience is that "when in Rome" is never truer than when you move to another country.

Also I find respect is earned, and not dished out according to nationality.

I think the more effort you make to immerse yourself in the culture etc of the country you live in, the better you are likely to be accepted.

Now that doesn't mean I'm off dancing ceilidhs in the mountains every weekend and nattering in gaelic at every opportunity, but I find folks around here respect you more if you just get stuck into stuff, get on with life...and don't go around moaning about how everything in my country is done so much better, and/or do the 'me' vs 'them' act.
I have had the odd unpleasant, anti-British sentiment aimed in my direction, but I could literally count those occasions on one hand, and have fingers left over....and that's over 11 years of living here.

Honestly, the odd time someone now remarks that my accent isn't local will catch me by surprise...nowadays, most of the time I forget that I'm not Irish :pac:

I can't help but wonder if Graces has had awful bad luck with regards to neighbours and landlords...or is perhaps missing the obvious?

EGAR

The worst that ever happened to me was being asked (twice!!!) if I was from Cork :eek:.

ISDW

EGAR wrote: »

The worst that ever happened to me was being asked (twice!!!) if I was from Cork :eek:.

OMG, how did you cope with that?:D

EGAR

ISDW wrote: »

OMG, how did you cope with that?:D

I am still in therapy...:o

ISDW

EGAR wrote: »

I am still in therapy...:o

:D:rolleyes: wish there was a laughing smilie

EGAR

dan_d

That post is a bit bewildering.
You've ended up with garda protection for trying to rescue sheep and a pony, among others.
How on earth did you go about doing it?? Most people don't get that riled up so a situation gets that out of control, unless they're seriously provoked.One person maybe....but several different people?? Unlikely. The common denominator there is you.....
You say you drove past what "seems" to be a new puppy farm?? I'm genuinely not being smart here - how did you know, from driving past, that it might be a puppy farm??
You can be outspoken and blunt OP, but you sound as though you've landed yourself in an awful lot of trouble by how you go about your business. Ireland is no better or worse than any other country when it comes to animal welfare. Every country has it's problems, and every country has people who try their best to solve the problems.
Maybe you should take a look at how you're "solving" the problems.

golden8

Where is the OP?

Cherry Blossom

golden8 wrote: »

Where is the OP?

Supposedly in Cork somewhere (if that's what you mean?)

golden8

No the OP has not posted anything on this thread in over 24hrs. Plus the OP facts are wrong where are the facts that OP is claiming that Ireland is the capital for cruelty.

Cherry Blossom

It's a sort of press statement announcing that:

Graces7 wrote: »

We are not returning here;

OP always refers to themself as 'We'

If you have a read of some of the other threads the OP has posted on you will find this a pretty good summary I think:

EraseAndRewind wrote: »

mad as a box of frogs

Wolfe Tone

Thats mad, I always felt, as a lurker mostly, there was a nasty condescending tone to the majority of the OPs posts.

dan_d

To be honest, outside the actual facts of what the OP was saying about animals, I don't understand half of what's written there.The last couple of paragraphs are a bit incomprehensible.

i-digress

dan_d wrote: »

To be honest, outside the actual facts of what the OP was saying about animals, I don't understand half of what's written there.The last couple of paragraphs are a bit incomprehensible.

Glad I'm not the only one!