La Pavoni - Best grind advice

pickledfish

I have a La Pavoni - Europiccola Professional for over 10yrs now. I'm not going to start blowing on about how good a machine it is. Let's just say I'm a big admirer of the design, build quality and coffee it makes. A beautiful machine!

Anyway, I've observed that this machine needs a particularly fine grind to produce it's best. In particular Illy seems to produce good results. I'm considering shelling out for a grinder. So I'm looking for advice on a grinder that wont disappoint. What grinders (or brands) are other lever machines using?

PS - is it just me or is Lidl low fat milk particularly poor for frothing?

Doodee

pickledfish wrote: »

I have a La Pavoni - Europiccola Professional for over 10yrs now. I'm not going to start blowing on about how good a machine it is. Let's just say I'm a big admirer of the design, build quality and coffee it makes. A beautiful machine!

Anyway, I've observed that this machine needs a particularly fine grind to produce it's best. In particular Illy seems to produce good results. I'm considering shelling out for a grinder. So I'm looking for advice on a grinder that wont disappoint. What grinders (or brands) are other lever machines using?

Have a look at the Malkonig Vario . I have this myself and find it very good.
another popular espresso grinder is the Macap M4 or the Mazzer Mini

pickledfish wrote: »

PS - is it just me or is Lidl low fat milk particularly poor for frothing?

Low fat milk will give great foam, but will not be very sweet.
For a detailed insight into milk foaming check out the Milk foaming guide on coffeegeek

Slaphead07

I had a similar machine to yours and got a La Pavoni Jolly grinder. It grinds particularly fine and is obviously good for the Pavoni machines. Easy to change for plunger too.
I can't recommend a supplier though as I was very lucky and got one s/h from these forums.

http://www.bestcoffeebeans.co.uk/la-pavoni-jolly-doser-coffee-grinder---chrome--black-model-jdl-645-p.asp

pickledfish

Thanks for your advice guys. I've decided to go for the Macap M4. Looking forward to getting it.

glynf

Hi pickled fish,


Re. you got an M4 grinder I did as well lately.

I find it hard to get a decent grind with certain beans, would you mind telling me what settings you use for espresso-as in how many numbers on the dial from zero point?

Thanks in advance,



G.

donnacha

glynf wrote: »

Hi pickled fish,


Re. you got an M4 grinder I did as well lately.

I find it hard to get a decent grind with certain beans, would you mind telling me what settings you use for espresso-as in how many numbers on the dial from zero point?

Thanks in advance,



G.

You 'll find that each bag of beans needs to be dialled in so ultimately your settings would change every time you put a new bag in. tell us what espresso machine are you using, and how fresh are the beans?

glynf

Hi, the espresso machine is a Gaggia classic, the beans-not sure, from a coffee shop in Dun Laoghaire-and not marked re. date roasted.

I have the gaggia about 2 months and have tried various beans to see what we liked. All ground well at about 1.5 numbers to 2 numbers coarser than the point where the burrs are touching on the grinder scale, if that makes sense. I was getting good shots with decent crema, taking a out 15-18 secs for 2oz volume.

So today I got a few bits from Watermark; backflushing disc, detergent and a proper double basket (it came with one of those perfect crema baskets).

After fitting the double basket and cleaning, I am getting watery shots, with little or no crema.

I'm confident my tamping is consistent at about 30 lbs(checked with scales), so the only variables before I adjusted the grinder are I backflushed & cleaned the machine with clean express detergent and I'm using the new basket.
I rinsed the machine thoroughly & soaked the shower head and portafilter and also rinsed properly so confident this is not the issue.

After this I started to grind finer, got it to the stage where I was getting a decent shot but with very little crema in 14 or so seconds. When I ground finer still, the machine 'choked' if you know what I mean, as in it took 30 secs and tar came out . After much fluting about, and adjusting the grinder for coarser and finer several times, I'm back to watery shots.

I think the perfect crema basket & widget were more forgiving in a sense and ensured I got half decent shots with lots of crema no matter what.

What am I doing wrong here, is the grinder really that sensitive re. settings?

Thanks in advance, any help appreciated.

donnacha

Away from the interweb at the mo but loads of info online and in these forums on reducing the pressure on your gaggia - that would be the first step I'd recommend.

mandarin

Re. what Donnacha was saying, recent discussion on adjusting pressure here
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056185152

glynf

Thanks guys, I will look into it next. Picked up some fresh beans from Bewleys today-ones i had were not great me thinks. The thing I find is there is so much info online about the perfect espresso shot, however a lot of it is conflicting advice-no doubt due to the huge amount of variables involved.

donnacha

glynf wrote: »

Thanks guys, I will look into it next. Picked up some fresh beans from Bewleys today-ones i had were not great me thinks. The thing I find is there is so much info online about the perfect espresso shot, however a lot of it is conflicting advice-no doubt due to the huge amount of variables involved.

let us know how you get on with the pressure mod on the gaggia as it will radically change the machine.

Also its worthwhile picking up some beans from either coffeeangel or 3fe ... or online where they roast to order - check out this thread for a list of online sellers: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=75977583

glynf

Donnacha & Mandarin,

Many thanks for the advice, after plenty of research, I did the mod this morning.

It seems that all classics that ship with the ESE pod thing are set at 11 bar, also after reading here that one full turn of the OPV adjustment nut (360 deg ounter clockwise) is equal to minus two bars., went with that.

I have no pressure gauge yet-plan to get looking for a second portafilter & parts to build one tomorrow, so I'm not sure of what exact pressure I'm getting. However there is a huge difference in the shots, about 22 secs for a double and a lovely creamy rich consistency with lots of crema.

I have only made a four so far (trying not to get too wired:)), and using different beans so I need to tweak the grinder a bit, but its looking great so far.

Sinfonia

glynf wrote: »

Donnacha & Mandarin,

Many thanks for the advice, after plenty of research, I did the mod this morning.

It seems that all classics that ship with the ESE pod thing are set at 11 bar, also after reading here that one full turn of the OPV adjustment nut (360 deg ounter clockwise) is equal to minus two bars., went with that.

I have no pressure gauge yet-plan to get looking for a second portafilter & parts to build one tomorrow, so I'm not sure of what exact pressure I'm getting. However there is a huge difference in the shots, about 22 secs for a double and a lovely creamy rich consistency with lots of crema.

I have only made a four so far (trying not to get too wired:)), and using different beans so I need to tweak the grinder a bit, but its looking great so far.

As far as I know, Classics are shipped with the pressure set anywhere up to 16 bar, so the 360 turn could leave you anywhere, so I'd say have a look for the backflush method for the OPV adjustment too, it's not going to be quite as accurate a reading as a pressure gauge will give you, but it will basically tell you where you stand. I found it really handy, considering even with a video guide I wasn't really comfortable with constructing a pressure gauge.

glynf

Sinfonia wrote: »

glynf wrote: »

Donnacha & Mandarin,

Many thanks for the advice, after plenty of research, I did the mod this morning.

It seems that all classics that ship with the ESE pod thing are set at 11 bar, also after reading here that one full turn of the OPV adjustment nut (360 deg ounter clockwise) is equal to minus two bars., went with that.

I have no pressure gauge yet-plan to get looking for a second portafilter & parts to build one tomorrow, so I'm not sure of what exact pressure I'm getting. However there is a huge difference in the shots, about 22 secs for a double and a lovely creamy rich consistency with lots of crema.

I have only made a four so far (trying not to get too wired:)), and using different beans so I need to tweak the grinder a bit, but its looking great so far.

As far as I know, Classics are shipped with the pressure set anywhere up to 16 bar, so the 360 turn could leave you anywhere, so I'd say have a look for the backflush method for the OPV adjustment too, it's not going to be quite as accurate a reading as a pressure gauge will give you, but it will basically tell you where you stand. I found it really handy, considering even with a video guide I wasn't really comfortable with constructing a pressure gauge.

Thanks Sinfonia, I want to give it a go, as I have a rubber back flushing disc. Thing is I'm not sure where I should measure the flow, is it from the overflow pipe that goes into the drip tray, or do I need to pull out the silicone tube that goes back into the resevoir?

I only back fllush for aprox 8-10 secs when cleaning, and even at that the pump sounds to be labouring and near stalling. 30 secs seems like it would be a bit harsh, and i dont want to burn the pump motor out, not sure if theres any thermal/overload protection on it?

Please stick up a link for the guide you used if you have it.

Sinfonia

Had a good look around, can't find the info I used, but if I remember correctly, I checked the make/model of the pump inside the machine, looked it up and found what the flow rate (given in cc/min) is at 9 bar.

Then, of the two tubes that go into the water reservoir on the Classic, one extracts water and the other is for backflow (can't remember which is which, but that won't be hard to find out), so I put the former in some water, and the latter into an empty measuring jug, and ran the machine (with a rubber backflush disc in the basket) for 30 seconds (which is apparently fine, but a full minute would be too long).

It was a case of trial and error with turning the OPV valve in small increments until the amount of water from the backflow poured in 30 seconds was half the amount given by the info from the first paragraph (which was the amount per minute).

Took about 20-30mins altogether to get it right, but you only need to do it once.

Also, cc is the same as ml, which I didn't know before doing this.

Hope that makes sense!

glynf

Hi,

Many thanks for the detailed reply. I'm collecting a 2nd portafilter monday, and will pick up a pressure guage, T piece & ball valve to build a portafilter type one, I don't want to risk the motor. I'll keep you posted.:)