.22 good enough for Charlie?

premiercad

Im inheriting an old school .22 Brno rifle , I'm hoping to get into a bit of Pest control after the Pheasant season closes this month, my question is will a .22 be good enough after foxes? Ive only ever shot rabbits with it before and I am wondering wether or not it will do the job?

Tackleberrywho

premiercad wrote: »

Im inheriting an old school .22 Brno rifle , I'm hoping to get into a bit of Pest control after the Pheasant season closes this month, my question is will a .22 be good enough after foxes? Ive only ever shot rabbits with it before and I am wondering wether or not it will do the job?

With Hyper Velocity rounds, head shots 60-70 yards Max effective range

CCI Stingers
Remington Yellow Jackets are very good at destroying flesh.

However the Hyper Velocity ammo is the Least accurate in a .22lr and emitt quite a loud crack for such a small round

bunny shooter

CCI Velocitor out to 80 yards if you're a good enough shot

landkeeper

don't bother with head shots heart or lung shots with 22 hv will make sure it's dead , head shots are for heroes too much chance of not killing it with that type of shot

johngalway

Only in the right circumstances and not as a dedicated foxing rifle.

premiercad

Thanks guys you have reinforced what I've been thinking

bunny shooter

landkeeper wrote: »

don't bother with head shots heart or lung shots with 22 hv will make sure it's dead , head shots are for heroes too much chance of not killing it with that type of shot

+1 to that.

I always go for heart shots on Charles even with bigger calibres. Head shots on bunnies alright as I want to eat them.

Vegeta

What would people rate an acceptable distance to shoot a fox in the heart/lungs with a .22lr? Only ever shot them with a centerfire.

Glensman

Vegeta wrote: »

What would people rate an acceptable distance to shoot a fox in the heart/lungs with a .22lr? Only ever shot them with a centerfire.

You'll get runners at all distances. Some will run further than others...
I would say within about 70yards, shorter would be better. If you look at a .22's trajectory once you start gettin out on the range spectrum its on the downward curve, so I don't know how anyone is going to take heart/lungs because they aint going through the shoulder/back!

bunny shooter

Vegeta wrote: »

What would people rate an acceptable distance to shoot a fox in the heart/lungs with a .22lr? Only ever shot them with a centerfire.

80-100 yards plus or minus DEPENDING on shooters abilities and using HV only over 70 yards.

Glensman wrote: »

You'll get runners at all distances. Some will run further than others...
I would say within about 70yards, shorter would be better. If you look at a .22's trajectory once you start gettin out on the range spectrum its on the downward curve, so I don't know how anyone is going to take heart/lungs because they aint going through the shoulder/back!

Don't judge others ability by yours :rolleyes:

I've taken lots of foxes at 60-70 with subsonics BUT I know MY abilities and lack of them also Very few runners. No more than I'd get with my centrefire at longer ranges

Power is never a substitute for accuracy

premiercad

Judging by the replies I need HV rounds, Charlie inside 75 yards, and a good bit of practice!!! I better go work on my calls .

garv123

premiercad wrote: »

Judging by the replies I need HV rounds, Charlie inside 75 yards, and a good bit of practice!!! I better go work on my calls .

when the bullet of the .22 does begin to drop it does drop pretty fast so i'd set up targets at that range and get used to it. what have you it 0'd at?

Glensman

bunny shooter wrote: »

80-100 yards plus or minus DEPENDING on


Don't judge others ability by yours :rolleyes:

I don't care if you're and Olympic target shooter. A 22's trajectory after 70 yards is unsuitable for a kill shot in a fox. and you will get plenty of runners.

Shooting paper isn't the same as shooting live quarry, which may be moving, wind conditions- you might be leaning off a post...
With a .22's trajectory after 70-80 yards the bullet is dropping like a stone, and not carrying enough energy to break through bone such as shoulder. You'll get kills, but it aint moral.

garv123

Glensman wrote: »

I don't care if you're and Olympic target shooter. A 22's trajectory after 70 yards is unsuitable for a kill shot in a fox. and you will get plenty of runners.

Shooting paper isn't the same as shooting live quarry, which may be moving, wind conditions- you might be leaning off a post...
With a .22's trajectory after 70-80 yards the bullet is dropping like a stone, and not carrying enough energy to break through bone such as shoulder. You'll get kills, but it aint moral.

that chart is for subsonic though. high volectiy bullets wouldnt be AS BAD but still bad enough
the one below shoves normal, high and hyper velocity.

Vegeta

Good posts all round. Thanks for the info guys

EDIT: Just to say I am not going to rush out lamping with the .22lr but it's a "just in case" type question in the off chance I meet one out when I'm holding the .22lr

johngalway

Vegeta wrote: »

What would people rate an acceptable distance to shoot a fox in the heart/lungs with a .22lr? Only ever shot them with a centerfire.

Only took headshoots to 80 yards as I only ever used subsonics. HV's grouped like my shotgun.

Glensman

Vegeta wrote: »

Good posts all round. Thanks for the info guys

EDIT: Just to say I am not going to rush out lamping with the .22lr but it's a "just in case" type question in the off chance I meet one out when I'm holding the .22lr

You're just right to ask the question mate. I have shot foxes in the past with my 22, when I was lamping rabbits and shooting crows... I have never taken it out for the purpose of lamping, but that's because I have bigger calibres.

This is not directed at anyone on this thread, everyone has written perfect sense- but I am sick of all the people out the with magic bullets and magic guns. A local fella, who should know better was telling me how he's shot 4 goats with his HMR, and everyone of them dropped like a stone. This of course is complete crap, he then with a smug look on his face said that 'it's all about where you hit them.'

You don't spread slurry with a Massey 35 and you don't shoot large vermin with rabbit guns! There are no magic bullets or guns, every calibre has its place and job.

Rant over!

garv123

Glensman wrote: »

You're just right to ask the question mate. I have shot foxes in the past with my 22, when I was lamping rabbits and shooting crows... I have never taken it out for the purpose of lamping, but that's because I have bigger calibres.

This is not directed at anyone on this thread, everyone has written perfect sense- but I am sick of all the people out the with magic bullets and magic guns. A local fella, who should know better was telling me how he's shot 4 goats with his HMR, and everyone of them dropped like a stone. This of course is complete crap, he then with a smug look on his face said that 'it's all about where you hit them.'

You don't spread slurry with a Massey 35 and you don't shoot large vermin with rabbit guns! There are no magic bullets or guns, every calibre has its place and job.

Rant over!

i believe him:cool::pac:

landkeeper

ethical shooting is about your own capabilities, as well as the calibre you are using at the time and bullet placement, the rules apply wether it's a 22lr sub or a 22-250 don't take shots your not capeable of making or shots that are low percentage ones
i know lads and shoot with one who has used nothing but 22lr to shoot foxes for decades yes they get an odd runner we all do anyone who states otherwise is a liar .they don't take headshots for a variety of reasons the main one being there is too big of a chance of wounding the fox if you hit him in the snout, lower jaw etc will all kill it but it'll take days to die a slow and lingering death
a bullet through the heart lungs is a much better option it'll maybe run a ways but it'll be dead very shortly ,!!not running around for a day or two before it does, the head is the worst place to shoot any animal it's allways moving around and is a low percentage shot in my book

johngalway

landkeeper wrote: »

ethical shooting is about your own capabilities, as well as the calibre you are using at the time and bullet placement, the rules apply wether it's a 22lr sub or a 22-250 don't take shots your not capeable of making or shots that are low percentage ones

Agree with this.

landkeeper wrote: »

i know lads and shoot with one who has used nothing but 22lr to shoot foxes for decades yes they get an odd runner we all do anyone who states otherwise is a liar .they don't take headshots for a variety of reasons the main one being there is too big of a chance of wounding the fox if you hit him in the snout, lower jaw etc will all kill it but it'll take days to die a slow and lingering death
a bullet through the heart lungs is a much better option it'll maybe run a ways but it'll be dead very shortly ,!!not running around for a day or two before it does, the head is the worst place to shoot any animal it's allways moving around and is a low percentage shot in my book

Six of one, half a dozen of the other. There's also a low percentage in using a limited calibre, when other higher % options, that don't cost an awful lot more, are available.

We all miss on occasion for one reason or another. Using the higher % calibre gives the shooter that extra margin for error as it causes a higher % of damage.

Tackleberrywho

Vegeta wrote: »

Good posts all round. Thanks for the info guys

EDIT: Just to say I am not going to rush out lamping with the .22lr but it's a "just in case" type question in the off chance I meet one out when I'm holding the .22lr

I shot my first foxes with .22lr.
I never used Subsonics, I never used High Velocity always Hyper velocity on them.

But then when i went centrefire I never looked back.

I often let a fox have 2 or3 rounds out of my semi auto's before she'd drop.
Not good in my opinion.
But would do in a push

bunny shooter

Glensman wrote: »

I don't care if you're and Olympic target shooter.

I'm not, nor do I need to be

Glensman wrote: »

A 22's trajectory after 70 yards is unsuitable for a kill shot in a fox.

Only if you don't know what it is. Some of us know how to aim off

Glensman wrote: »

and you will get plenty of runners.

That's your experience, doesn't mean it's same for me

Glensman wrote: »

Shooting paper isn't the same as shooting live quarry,

100% agree. I never stated otherwise.

Glensman wrote: »

which may be moving, wind conditions- you might be leaning off a post...

This is where knowing your setup and it's limitations come into the equation

Glensman wrote: »

With a .22's trajectory after 70-80 yards the bullet is dropping like a stone,

Not quite true now is it

Glensman wrote: »

and not carrying enough energy to break through bone such as shoulder.

Aiming for the heart I shoot behind the shoulder haven't missed Charles heart yet or have I hit him in the shoulder very often

Glensman wrote: »

You'll get kills, but it aint moral.

So if I get clean kills how is it not moral? What would not be moral would be wounding, which seldom happens as I've stated already. I know my limitations with the .22lr same as I do with my centrefire.

You may not be competent with a .22lr over 70 yards on a fox but don't judge us all by your standards

For dedicated foxing I reckon you need a minimum of a 22 Hornet BUT smaller calibres are capable if used properly

Vegeta

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

I often let a fox have 2 or3 rounds out of my semi auto's before she'd drop.
Not good in my opinion.
But would do in a push

Actually that's a good point Tack, I cant recall ever having to shoot a fox twice with the .223

I'm sure I have had to but it is so rare that I cant think of a single one off the top of my head.

garv123

Vegeta wrote: »

Actually that's a good point Tack, I cant recall ever having to shoot a fox twice with the .223

I'm sure I have had to but it is so rare that I cant think of a single one off the top of my head.

Its ok if your american though.

What should be more human? You mean HUMANE?? One Shot One Kill is THE MARINES, not hunters. HAHAHA! Europe is Lost! Go study global warning.

quote from a comment on a video on youtube of some dope bringing children hunting and he took 5 shots to kill a boar. first shot he was lying down sleeping. that should have been one shot to the head of heart for the kill
felt like wanting to hit the fool after watching the video. so cruel.

imo same thing goes to shooting foxes. if someone cant take one shot for a kill it shouldnt be used on that animal. ( obviously sometimes people miss and need the second shot)
again it comes down to whos behind the trigger and shot placement.

Glensman

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

I shot my first foxes with .22lr.
I never used Subsonics, I never used High Velocity always Hyper velocity on them.

But then when i went centrefire I never looked back.

I often let a fox have 2 or3 rounds out of my semi auto's before she'd drop.
Not good in my opinion.
But would do in a push

According to Chuck Hawks Tack the Hyper-Vel arent much benefit to you at range, especially as they wouldn't expand as well as a HP. I never knew it myself:

The latest development in Long Rifle hunting ammunition is the hyper-velocity load. Typical of these are the CCI Stinger and Remington Yellow Jacket. Hyper-velocity .22's achieve higher speeds than previous high velocity ammunition at permissible pressure by using light, copper plated, hollow point bullets of about 30-33 grains in front of an increased charge of slightly slower burning powder. This allows a muzzle velocity of about 1,500 fps and a muzzle energy of about 165 ft. lbs. The light bullet sheds velocity and energy quickly, however. At 100 yards the energy has fallen to 85 ft. lbs., about the same as a high velocity HP bullet.

Tackleberrywho

Glensman wrote: »

According to Chuck Hawks Tack the Hyper-Vel arent much benefit to you at range, especially as they wouldn't expand as well as a HP. I never knew it myself:

The latest development in Long Rifle hunting ammunition is the hyper-velocity load. Typical of these are the CCI Stinger and Remington Yellow Jacket. Hyper-velocity .22's achieve higher speeds than previous high velocity ammunition at permissible pressure by using light, copper plated, hollow point bullets of about 30-33 grains in front of an increased charge of slightly slower burning powder. This allows a muzzle velocity of about 1,500 fps and a muzzle energy of about 165 ft. lbs. The light bullet sheds velocity and energy quickly, however. At 100 yards the energy has fallen to 85 ft. lbs., about the same as a high velocity HP bullet.

As I said, under 100 yards. They used to do a lot of damage. Have not fired a .22 in years though

Glensman

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

As I said, under 100 yards. They used to do a lot of damage. Have not fired a .22 in years though

You're missing out! Great for plinking or rabbits!

Tackleberrywho

Glensman wrote: »

You're missing out! Great for plinking or rabbits!

I've 4 firearms, i don't miss out on much

One shot on kill

lads i dont know
but what i do know i hit a fox with my 22 lr at 80 yards and the tump when it hit its target it sounded like it had a fair bit more power in it and he dropped stone cold i use the cci stinger lads say there not accurate but out of 5 shot group 3 of them will hit the lid of a coke bottle at 100 yards no bull s h i t so thats accurate enough for me. but we can all get a bad round and it will drop sooner or maybe go a bit skew ways

stick shooter

I personally dont believe the .22lr should be used as a foxing round . For the very simple reason of bullet weight plus velocity against size of varmint .

Glensman

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

I've 4 firearms, i don't miss out on much

I've 4 as well. But I'm glad a .22 is one of them

One shot on kill

and your prob right

but not every one can have 2-3 fire arms

but if the shot appeared within the right distance i think take it

but yes i agree a propef fox rifle would be hornet upwards

Glensman

One shot on kill wrote: »

and your prob right

but not every one can have 2-3 fire arms

but if the shot appeared within the right distance i think take it

but yes i agree a propef fox rifle would be hornet upwards

Of course, if the shot presents itself and your happy- let her rip.

A .22 is a FANTASTIC calibre. Enjoy yourself with it, I got a .22mag first, which is by far superior- but the .22's a lot of fun!

stick shooter

If i was told i was to get rid of all my rifles but one ,I would have to keep my 22 i love it, Great all rounder

premiercad

Must say this is a great thread lads thanks for all the advice and opinions. As i said in my op it really is a case of the .22 has been handed to me and I wont be parting with it for sentimental reasons but it's good to know it's limitations. judging by the replies it will give me some sport but not if I want to take up proper Charlie hunting in the future. The drop charts are really something, it really dies a death ballistically out past 70 yards. I certainly dont want to be just wounding an animal and not dropping it clean. A winged bird to me in my pheasant shooting does happen but it really P**s me off and I do my best with shot selection and ammo selection to make sure that dosen't happen.

Feidhlim Dignan

i have shot a lot of foxes with a .22(not as much as some people). i shot a fox at 163 paces with my .22 (shouldnt have but i was young and egged on) hit him in the face and he didnt go an inch, but ive shot a few foxes at closer range and they ran.
I think anyone who says they shoot foxes in the chest and they have never had a runner is full of bs, but maybe im wrong

everypenny

Glensman wrote: »

I don't care if you're and Olympic target shooter. A 22's trajectory after 70 yards is unsuitable for a kill shot in a fox. and you will get plenty of runners.

I disagree. Trajectory of a round is consistant so long as the round, the barrel, the charge in the casing and the elements remain consistant.

The same principals apply wether its a .22 round or a .5 round. The power behind the round will decrease dramatically after 100/120 meters. But a shot to the chest (side or front) hitting heart and/or lungs WILL drop a fox out to 100 yards.

Glensman

everypenny wrote: »

I disagree. Trajectory of a round is consistant so long as the round, the barrel, the charge in the casing and the elements remain consistant.

The same principals apply wether its a .22 round or a .5 round. The power behind the round will decrease dramatically after 100/120 meters. But a shot to the chest (side or front) hitting heart and/or lungs WILL drop a fox out to 100 yards.

It will of course, but with the trajectory of the round and the power it has after 80 yards it's unlikely you're going to get heart/lungs. Its coming in at a high angle, so it's way more likely you're going to hit bone rather than tissue- and the round wont have the power to penetrate the bone.

I'm not knocking the .22- I LOVE my .22, but I have a .22 magnum which is carrying around 3 times the energy at a far better trajectory- and I would call it a limited foxing round!

cavan shooter

Have shot foxes with 22lr and shot 100s with the magnum, at the moment getting into the high numbers with the Hornet, its all about range,

everypenny

Glensman wrote: »

It will of course, but with the trajectory of the round and the power it has after 80 yards it's unlikely you're going to get heart/lungs. Its coming in at a high angle, so it's way more likely you're going to hit bone rather than tissue- and the round wont have the power to penetrate the bone.

A foxes depth is no greater that 8 - 10 inches. His breath is probably less. If you are consistent with a shot at a certain range wether it be 80 meters or 100 then a 22 round will cause enough damage to drop him. Within the dimension of his chest the rounds trajectory will not differ greatly nor its power will be reduced significantly.
If the round at that range does not, in your opinion, have enough power to penetrate bone, it will still have enough power to shatter shards of bone into his vitals, having the same effect as a round would.
It all revolves around the ability of the shooter IMHO. If you've spent enough time on the range, and are consitent in your shot placement at differing ranges, and are confident at dropping your quarry at a given range, then take the shot.
If you're not then don't. I have succesfully taken a big Dog Fox at 100 yards with a CZ 22 and Eley SUBS at 100 meters. But then i had spent many hours on the range decerning my drop with that round over varying distances.
At the end of the day a 22 will drop a fox at 5 meters, a 12.7 mil will drop one at a mile. It all boils down to your knowledge of your weapons system, your knowledge of your target, and your confidence at that range with that round and rifle.