Universal Social Charge

cranks

What with the first payslips of the new year arriving and the sting of the Universal Social Charge becoming evident, I'm wondering what exactly I'm being charged for. I've checked Revenue and Citizens Information but, funnily enough, this isn't outlined.
Any ideas?

aidan_walsh

http://www.redoaktaxrefunds.ie/universal-social-charge-ireland

dissed doc

cranks wrote: »

What with the first payslips of the new year arriving and the sting of the Universal Social Charge becoming evident, I'm wondering what exactly I'm being charged for. I've checked Revenue and Citizens Information but, funnily enough, this isn't outlined.
Any ideas?

Judging by the Pension Levy, which had nothing to do with a pension, the Universal Social Charge will have nothing to do with social services either.

later12

It's quite simple, public services are under increased funding stress and the USC is a reflection of the need to raise more taxes across the social strata from the poorly paid (those earning more than €4,004/annum but not paying income tax) to the better paid, as a proportion of their income.

It's impossible to trace where exactly your contribution goes.

Cookie_Monster

later10 wrote: »

It's impossible to trace where exactly your contribution goes.

into the black holes of health, welfare or the bailout.
There will be no benefits to anyone from it IMO

later12

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

There will be no benefits to anyone from it IMO

Tell that to someone who was relieved that the 8 euro cut in their dole was not twice that.

Sesshoumaru

later10 wrote: »

Tell that to someone who was relieved that the 8 euro cut in their dole was not twice that.

They may not feel relieved when dole payments stop because the country has run out of money to borrow. Looking at the commentary on Boards and elsewhere, it seems that the EU/IMF fund for Ireland may not cover all our borrowing requirements over the next few years.

Personally I would have preferred a lot more pain earlier back in 2008 (like Iceland) so that at least now we might be on an upward trajectory.

tenchi-fan

later10 wrote: »

Tell that to someone who was relieved that the 8 euro cut in their dole was not twice that.

The middle class get poorer and the poor get slightly better off.
Where do the rich come into this?

Fat_Fingers

tenchi-fan wrote: »

The middle class get poorer and the poor get slightly better off.
Where do the rich come into this?

Swiss bank accounts
Monaco residency
Tax efficient “investment vehicles”

ART6

The USC is just another of the plethora of taxes given a misleading name in the expectation that the people will be too confused by them all to understand how their government is bleeding them white to make up for the financial disaster it created. It is typical of the deceit practised by politicians to whom integrity is an unknown word. It allows them to place hands on hearts and say "But we didn't increase income tax" when in fact that is exactly what they did.:mad:

later12

tenchi-fan wrote: »

The middle class get poorer and the poor get slightly better off.
Where do the rich come into this?

They pay significantly more taxes than the middle class or poor. What would you prefer, a lynch mob to rid Ireland of any remaining wealth? How helpful.

Sesshoumaru wrote:

They may not feel relieved when dole payments stop because the country has run out of money

If you seriously believe that then I might as well leave you to your own devices because that really isn't the sort of thinking that can be reasonably engaged with. I'll tell you what, get back to me when the dole is cancelled and then we'll talk OK.

Sesshoumaru

later10 wrote: »

If you seriously believe that then I might as well leave you to your own devices because that really isn't the sort of thinking that can be reasonably engaged with. I'll tell you what, get back to me when the dole is cancelled and then we'll talk OK.

Believe what? that not all people on the dole can be lumped into one amorphous group i.e. that some people on the dole might actually support further cuts? some users on Boards who claim they are on the dole have stated they think the dole should have been cut by more.

Your kind of emotional argument is the one lacking in rationality and is difficult to engage with.

later10 wrote:

They pay significantly more taxes than the middle class or poor. What would you prefer, a lynch mob to rid Ireland of any remaining wealth? How helpful.

How about a 100% inheritance tax for everybody? In the interests of a fair society, someone smart and who works hard can become as rich as they want. But they don't get to pass it on to their kids. That's one possible tax that could bring in money and make society a little fairer , plus it targets neither rich nor poor. Just an idea of course, not saying I'm necessarily in favour of this

later12

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

Believe what? that not all people on the dole can be lumped into one amorphous group i.e. that some people on the dole might actually support further cuts?

No, this statement, do you remember making it or not?

They may not feel relieved when dole payments stop because the country has run out of money

To be honest, if this is the level of intelligence you are genuinely presenting, I'm not sure anything can be done to change it. Sometimes one just has to know when a point is beyond logic.

How about a 100% inheritance tax for everybody? In the interests of a fair society, someone smart and who works hard can become as rich as they want. But they don't get to pass it on to their kids.

Sorry, this just proves the above point. If you want to propose that, you do that, but I suggest you talk it over with a comrade.

Sesshoumaru

later10 wrote: »

Tell that to someone who was relieved that the 8 euro cut in their dole was not twice that.

Did you have one particular individual who is on the dole the poster could tell that to? Great emotional argument from you.

later10 wrote:

...but I suggest you talk it over with a comrade.

I gave you a hint, I'm not proposing it at this time. But I didn't expect this reply from you. You asked:

later10 wrote:

What would you prefer, a lynch mob to rid Ireland of any remaining wealth?

Since your contribution was a suggestion of a lynch mob, I was just trying to raise the level of discourse a little. The idea I mentioned is a little too utopian for it to work(yet) I feel. But it is worthy of discussion and is certainly not communism as you alluded to. Briefly it's an idea on how to tackle the problem(or not a problem depending on your viewpoint) of generational wealth and how it creates an unfair society.

e.g. You're born into a family who are millionaires/billionaires.

Now by accident of birth you are rich and potentially never have to work in your life. How is that person born into a wealthy family more entitled to that wealth than someone born into a poor family? Presumably the unborn/yet to be conceived individual hasn't done anything to earn that wealth. So why should they get to keep it? and I genuinely would like to know why you think children should get to keep their parents wealth? <- Note I'm not saying "rich parents", this tax would not target the rich exclusively, rather everybody.

That is in no way communism as your reply implied. People can work, set up companies, get rich & generally do whatever they like. They just don't get to pass it on and give someone who in no way contributed to generation of that wealth an unfair advantage over someone born into a poor family.

Honestly I only threw it out there as bait to learn a little more on your viewpoints.

Sesshoumaru

later10 wrote: »

No, this statement, do you remember making it or not?

I suppose I should probably reply to this as well. Important part of my statement highlighted below:

me wrote:

They may not feel relieved when dole payments stop because the country has run out of money to borrow.

Just highlighting the possibility that not everyone on the dole may be happy with the reduction only being 8 euro. I recalled from personal experience reading at least one poster who claimed he/she was on the dole and that they thought it should be cut by a lot more.

I'd like to ask you do you think the possibility of the country not being able to borrow money in the near future is complete fantasy? If it's not complete fantasy, how is my statement invalid? When you asked the poster to "Tell that to someone who was relieved that the 8 euro cut in their dole was not twice that." did you have a specific individual in mind? someone you know specifically on the dole who was relieved? Otherwise to me it seemed like you were generalising about people on the dole. How do you know every single person on the dole was relieved it wasn't more than 8 euro?

Maybe some people on the dole don't like it when other people who aren't on the dole, make generalisations about those who are on the dole

not yet

It's meant to be an easier way of collecting the health levy and income levy.......so they rolled it into one just like magic.

Tigger

im self employed so im now charged the same as paye peeps but i dont get a paye tax allowance nor do i get the benifits

tenchi-fan

later10 wrote: »

They pay significantly more taxes than the middle class or poor. What would you prefer, a lynch mob to rid Ireland of any remaining wealth? How helpful.

So you don't see judges, politicians and senior civil servants as rich? Or at least extremely wealthy?
What about the guys who made their millions on the backs of tax breaks and developments and got out at the right time?
And even the likes of the bailed out bankers who get bonuses by suggesting interest rate increases on variable rate mortgage?

You assumed I was talking about foreign corporations and successful business-owners. But I was actually referring to the black hole which taxpayer money is disappearing into.

tenchi-fan

Tigger wrote: »

im self employed so im now charged the same as paye peeps but i dont get a paye tax allowance nor do i get the benifits

But your business expenses are tax deductible unlike PAYE workers, who may incur expenses in their line of work but only get a miserable PAYE allowance which doesn't cover them.

Tigger

tenchi-fan wrote: »

But your business expenses are tax deductible unlike PAYE workers, who may incur expenses in their line of work but only get a miserable PAYE allowance which doesn't cover them.

what expenses do paye workers pay that i can claim tax against

later12

tenchi-fan wrote: »

So you don't see judges, politicians and senior civil servants as rich? Or at least extremely wealthy?

I'd say, based on their salaries, wealthy. But first of all, there is nothing wrong with being wealthy, it, and its pursuit, is to be wholly encouraged.
Secondly, they also pay more tax as a proportion of their income than the lower paid, and significantly more tax overall.

For example, a District Court judge on a salary of €148,000 p.a. pays €9,680 in the Universal Social Charge alone. Leaving aside any pension contributions, his gross salary of €12,333 per month becomes a net salary of about €6,710 - that's a lot of money but so too is his contribution of €5,623 per month in taxes.

On the other hand, take someone earning a salary six times less than that of a District Court Judge: a worker on €24,000 per year. Although he earns six times less than the District Judge, he pays almost 10 times less the Universal Social Charge than the Judge. He pays a USC of about €1,000 per annum compared with the judge's contribution of €9,680.

In my mind, that's a significant difference, and it is fair.

CabbageThing

With the universal social charge visting my paycheque on Friday - I have decided to take immediate drastic measures to lesson its blow.
I have come to the conclusion the onlly way to stop it is to become Anti-social. First no idle chat at the workplace , no thankyou for anybody holding the door open for me , no text messaging , no phone calls , no friday after work pints , no saturday night pints , no eating out , no dates , no cinema, no saying thankyou to the bus driver, no offering my seat up to an elderly or disabled person, no giving directions to confused tourists, actively avoid conversation with housemates, stay in my room- only leave to eat and ****, no singing in the shower, no pointless posting on discussion forums...........

Idbatterim

50% of workers paying no paye is a joke. Welfare and the tax system require total reform. No more same dole whether you have been on it for 1 month or 10 years, no more extra money for having child 3+, etc etc etc etc