more Info and what to do with Forestry?

F.D

As the title suggests, a little background first we have nearly 30 acres of conifers and 5 acres with a mix of oak and japenese larch planted, it is in its fourth year of growing so there will be the last of the premium due on it shortly, at present it earn approx 7k per anum tax free it was planted by a deceased relative. now the questions,
I am trying to justifty keeping the land planted as it is perfect ground except for around 10 acres of it which could be drained

What happens after the premium ends in 16 years time ?
where does the income come from then ?
Can some one give some info on how much per year between then and yr 40 when clearfell happens?
I have read all the rose tinted litriture, but to me it doesent add up !
obviously the oaks will be a lifetime thing which seems pointless having them planted and only get a 20 yr premium on them

our grazing block around the yard is only 40 acres because of this plantation and i feel if i had it all back in grass i could make a better go of it and earn the same money out of the land by other means,E.G Dairying /beef or at least have more options that are not as fixed

I do not want tree huggers saying we should keep the trees for the sake of it i just want realistic people to give me there honest opionion what the better option is

blue5000

Hi FD talk to johnstown castle in wexford about removing it. AFAIK you will have to pay back the premiums if you take it out of forestry.

A few yrs ago thinnings were worthless, now there is a good market for firewood. Unless you can milk cows on the land I reckon you're better off to leave it as it is, I know thats probably not what you want to hear.

F.D

Hi Blue,
I Have already taken back some land from forestry, so i have a fair idea of the cost involved, it would probably be in the region of 60k but then when you look at it from the point of view how much would it cost to buy 30 acres thats fairly reasonable,

We could go down the milking road, i would be very keen to do so, but i would have to invest in a parlour, plan would be buy heifer calves now and be ready in a few years to start, if the sums add up of course
you have also answered my question about the thinnings, they could easily be worthless in 15 years time again but your stuck with the trees, if milk is down the cattle might be up and visa versa its a bit more flexible

I suppose the main question is, if a dairy unit viable with a 70 acre grazing block? we have a further 55 acres approx away from the farm

JohnBoy

F.D wrote: »

I suppose the main question is, if a dairy unit viable with a 70 acre grazing block? we have a further 55 acres approx away from the farm

I think if you're efficient, and with no borrowings then maybe.

but you'l have the cost of stock, the cost of infrastructure, probably the cost of reseeding the whole place, new paddocks/fencing/ the cost of reclaiming your forestry.

So unless you have the cash to fund all that then I'm not sure it stacks up


If the 30 acres costs 60k to buy it out what will it cost to clear out, drain, fence paddocks, roadways, put in water troughs and reseed? probably another grand an acre so 90 grand total.

Over 10 years at 3% that will cost you €347/ac/yr

Over 10 years at 5% that's €381/ac/yr



Not saying dont do it, just make sure you do serious, and realistic maths on it.

djwalsh

Are out of your mind?

If someone handed me 7k a year for sitting on my arse I would take their hand off. Dou think that you will generate 200 euro pure profit per acre from any other type of farming where your input and time is zero.

The cost of repaying the grant and premiums would be circa 63k. Plus the cost of putting the land back into agriculture would be massive especially if mounding was used.

If you have a productive crop you should be able to thin at year 16. Thinning would be at 50m3 per hectare which would equate to 600m3. At present i know of some companies that are buying 1st thinnings at €15-20 per m3 standing (i.e. they will harvest the timber without it costing you anything). So that would be up to 12k on a 1st thin before your premium ends. You would be looking to thin every 3-4 years and as you move into subsequent thinning there is greater profit as you will have a different variety of products.

Clearfell at 35 years would bring in approx €20k per hectare.

Plus you would never be short of fuel

F.D

Thanks for replys
Johnboy its nice to get some real figures of the costs involved, I take it you’re a dairy farmer if you say the costs don’t stack up without having the cash up front that’s not what I was hoping to hear but at least your honest
Would that 30 acres earn more that the 7k per annum if there was cows on it?
Dj, Thanks for the figures no I’m not crazy and I see your points, I will be turning 30 shortly married hoping to start a family and in an office job, long term I would like the farm to be viable and be able to support us and my parents without me having to work in the office,
7k per annum is great until the government decides to cut it in the next budget who knows, they already put a 8% tax on it last year what I do know is its making the other 40 acres beside it and the yard suffer because its not big enough to do anything profitable with

JohnBoy

god no, not at all.

only starting out ourselves. I suppose I look at things more from a business point of view, the nature of my job is to do feasability costings on potential business from time to time, makes you think about these things differently.