Coaching

Owwmykneecap

After watching the MvC2 billion dollar match from WCW (not wrestling chunkis...) there was some some controversy at times on the notion of coaching, Neo was apparently getting advice from various people, including marn.

Before the match Cl0ckw0rk had explicitly stated no coaching, but i guess the atmosphere was so hype it wasn't being enforced*.

Anyway to my point: Do we have rules regarding it, should we, and what constitutes it?

(*how much of this actually happened I don't know, I've only seen the youtube vid which has no mix into player footage.)

GorySnake

It doesnt usually seem to be a big deal. I've seen a video of Justin Wong and Daigo at Evo 2009, where Justin walked off stage and had a big huddle with like 5 guys all advising him on what to do (I'm assuming).

To be honest, I dont like the idea of it. If you're gonna win a match, do it with your own skill, not someone elses advice and observations.

SirAuronDX

Yeah just watched that billion dollar match too (sick ****. shame about the running style but damn clockworks doom/strider was siiiick) coaching is kinda gay. sure we find ourselves yelling WHY DIDNT YOU-? etc but if you huddle with a bunch of guys with legit strats thats super gay. also i heard neo was getting texts with coaching too.

Sairus

Terry shouted at ye for coaching me one time I believe

2:46

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9drOjRU8PoA

Personally I dont like the idea of coaching. In a 5v5 or something I'm all for the team talking between matches. In a 1v1 I'd prefer the crowd not explicitly give advice to the players.
But then again I love the atmosphere when the crowd get riled up to the point that they are shouting advice, so I dunno. Hypocracy abound.

Placebo

cant coach mid game. do whatever you want before.
Screaming **** like, dont hadouken, he has ultra is bull****. [Yeah kiki]

FutureGuy

I don't coach and do not like it when people are coaching me or my oppnent during a match. I don't care if I am getting a pasting, it's highly disrespectful to the other player.

Dunjohn

I'm not that familiar with organised play in fighting games (I've been to Inferno twice and Sairus' thing down in Cork) but I do play Magic: the Gathering a lot and in that game, coaching is an ejectable offence. Granted, it's a slower and more thoughtful game than Street Fighter, so there's less constant crowd hype, but the idea is that if you're not playing then you shouldn't be participating.

I can't hear what advice Sairus is being given, but if it's something obvious about a weakness in Rufus' style, then Sairus should have known about it before the match began. Or he should be relying on his own observation to adapt. In every case, it needs to come down to Sairus being able to deal with it himself. The Rufus player (presumably Terry?) shouldn't expect to be playing against the Perfect Opponent every time purely because they benefit from the combined knowledge of the audience, and neither should Rose or any other player.

I think rules governing it would be best, before it becomes too prevalent to deal with. It can't really be stamped out completely, as anyone who has attended a football match will know, but I'd be in favour of strongly discouraging it.

Azza

The last Inferno I was at, when watching a match between Dreddy and Doom I had to apply a great amount of mental effort to stop my self screaming "Stop jumping at him FFS" after corner trapped Doom jumped at him and got stuffed by larait 4 or 5 times in quick sucession. Just about contained myself.

UberPrinny_Baal

Dunjohn wrote: »

Magic: the Gathering ....coaching is an ejectable offence.

To be fair to Magic the Gathering, it's pretty much 100% decision based. The players don't need any kind of technical skill to pull off an action. So it wouldn't be nearly as powerful in Street Fighter.

But still, someone loudly coaching you could just tip off your opponent to what your optimum course of action is.

The Hound

It should be allowed in Team Tournaments imo and only your team mate is allowed coach before or during a fight.

Sagat06

In a tournament during a match no way. Personally I can tune it out if someone is trying to coach me, the old nod and smile. But if somebody is giving my opponent a strategy for beating me, during a fight, then it doesnt sit too well. But I'm far too nice to say anything

In causals no problem thats what they are for.

Just read Hounds post, the only problem I would have with that aside from the strategic side of it, would be I can find it incredibly offputting to have someone chatting beside me.

Voa

I will admit I gave Joe a bit of advice before his rematch against SadX in the last WoH, but I wouldn't call it coaching myself in that context...just stuff he already knew like "wait for his pressure to end, punish wolf forms".
Now, in his match against Vyze I really was about to coach him, but bit my tongue. If he kept trying to get free wake up games after coming out of fights against me and SadX, that his mistake...

Vyze

Voa wrote: »

I will admit I gave Joe a bit of advice before his rematch against SadX in the last WoH, but I wouldn't call it coaching myself in that context...just stuff he already knew like "wait for his pressure to end, punish wolf forms".
Now, in his match against Vyze I really was about to coach him, but bit my tongue. If he kept trying to get free wake up games after coming out of fights against me and SadX, that his mistake...

Holly tried giving my some advice in my match against Joe but on the way home I had to ask her what she was trying to tell me cuz I wasn't listening.

Between matches I definitely have no problem with people coaching. It's basically just the average chat you'd have with people about fighting games anyway so why ban it between matches in a tournament. Shouting advice during or between rounds in a match is a little dodgy I guess but I wouldn't complain if other people did it.

The Hound

When I played Dreddy in the Last team tourny Ry was right beside me. I was akuma and Dreddy was gief. I lost the 1st round for being to eager to get in which is stupid. I wasn't playin very safe or lame to be exact. Ry said to me when i lost the 1st round "Just stay safe and run away" or something along those lines. He didnt shout it out, he said it quietly in my ear and he was right to note what I was doing wrong. I dont even think dreddy heard him.

Whats the difference with coaching and ppl shouting stuff in a tournament?

Like i did an option select DP in one tournament and i heard someone saying "oooohhh risky" i felt like pausing thegame and explaining how it wasnt. lol. Thats more distracting than an encouragement from a team mate if ya ask me.
Tbh i dont really care. its good to get used to the atmosphere for when your at bigger tournaments with more hype.

bush

Cant stop people shouting what they want in my opinion. It could be off putting but I suppose its all part of it.
Could be a real hindrance if you have people like red shouting out impossible strats like walk forward cr.mk fireball though, would get someone killed real fast if they attempted that.

Vyze

The Hound wrote: »

Like i did an option select DP in one tournament and i heard someone saying "oooohhh risky" i felt like pausing thegame and explaining how it wasnt. lol. Thats more distracting than an encouragement from a team mate if ya ask me.

Yeah this is far worse in my opinion. At CXC I overheard a couple of bits of commentary during my matches where something was wrong (Act Parser being an overhead or saying that I was going for chip damage from a super) and it just kinda throws you off.

FutureGuy

The Hound wrote: »

When I played Dreddy in the Last team tourny Ry was right beside me. I was akuma and Dreddy was gief. I lost the 1st round for being to eager to get in which is stupid. I wasn't playin very safe or lame to be exact. Ry said to me when i lost the 1st round "Just stay safe and run away" or something along those lines. He didnt shout it out, he said it quietly in my ear and he was right to note what I was doing wrong. I dont even think dreddy heard him.

The following is moot if Hound and Ry were on the same team as it's a different circumstance.

I have to disagree here because Ry was not involved in the match between you too. I know that Ry meant no harm, but it gives a player an advantage over the other, and that the size of this advantage is inversely proportional to the skill levels of players involved. For 2 top players such as Dreddy and Hound, the advantage gained is minimal/non-existant, but for less skilled players, it can unbalance a match.

Consider Player A and Player B are both average players of equal skill. Both are playing well but each is making a fatal mistake regarding the match up which is costing them health. A viewer tells Player A after the first round of game 1 what mistake he is making and Player A stops doing it for the rest of the match. Player A immediately gains an advantage vs Player B.

It's even worse when the viewer has an active interest in the outcome of the match (i.e. coaching the person he wants to win so that he gets a better standing in the tournamet).

A tournament is designed to test your ability, skill and match-up knowledge and noone elses.

Voa

Music at tournaments == godlike.

K.O.Kiki

That's it, I'm gonna hog the mic at all future Infernos.

Since it's actually impossible for me to shut up, I might as well spout my random "advice" where everyone can hear.

A-Trak

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

That's it, I'm gonna hog the mic at all future Infernos.

Since it's actually impossible for me to shut up, I might as well spout my random "advice" where everyone can hear.

Kiki commentry ban request please.

Vyze

FutureGuy wrote: »

A tournament is designed to test your ability, skill and match-up knowledge and noone elses.

TEST YOU WELL

Sagat06

If you coached in the Bowler you got punched in the back of the head

Scavenger XIII

Vyze wrote: »

TEST YOU WELL

1. Search Boards for posts containing "TEST YOU WELL".
2. Laugh
3. Cry
4. Hurl

Robbknoll

I agree with futureguy for the most part. I dont know who won the dreddy/hound match in the end but if Ry didnt say anything to hound would he have went out the same way and lost? I wouldnt like it in that respect as a player is responsible for his or her own pre match rituals and if hound went in too strong and lost thats his tough and he should learn from it.

On the other hand, i see team tourneys differently. TEAM being that main difference so naturally your going to act like a team. If a defender in soccer was being made sh*t off his team mates are gonna give him advice, or they might end up losing.

Owwmykneecap

Cobelcog versus Terry, inferno final.
Spammy Cammy, selected ultra 2, the counter ultra. I think we all noticed it, except terry, terry's dive kick onto that ultra wouldn't have taken Rose to see coming.
But If someone had of shouted out, "Watch out for the counter ultra terry", that really would not have been fair.

But then again, there is a difference between shouting as part of a crowd, and directly telling someone.

I suppose a small separation from the players, at match time, is best.

K.O.Kiki

Ah come on now.

We'd been joking about Cammy/Fei's "crap" counter-Ultras from before the game even came out!

Voa

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

Ah come on now.

We'd been joking about Cammy/Fei's "crap" counter-Ultras from before the game even came out!

It's not about what the ultra DID, but rather that Terry didn't notice it was U2.

K.O.Kiki

Are you calling Terry blind?

chopperbyrne

Doesn't bother me at all. Tend to phase out what others are saying while I'm playing.

Placebo

kiki ban request :pac:

K.O.Kiki

Placebo wrote:

kiki ban request :pac:

Farz ban request :cool:

fake_roogle

i think it's fine. yeah, it's unfair but it happens in larger tournaments as well, so if we ever have the intention of going to those events (which I know a lot of people do), might as well get used to it. not saying that just because it happens means it's suddenly fair, but that's never stopped people before.