Lack of background information about Counsellors on Web directories

kiwipower

I have spent the last month trying to identify a suitable counsellor from the likes of the IACP web-site and as a member of the general public I have found it infuriatingly difficult!

I know what specific “Therapeutic Services” I require assistance with (Relationship/Couples counselling in a same-sex relationship, with some history of bereavement.) The rest of the information I find to clinical and un-descriptive (and I come from a clinical background myself.) I also find it impossible to obtain even a basic feel of what the counsellors are like as an individual as there is nothing about them as a person on these websites.

I had to unpleasant experiences yesterday as a result that have almost put me off looking for a counsellor:
First I rang “Accord” in Limerick, when I bit the bullet and straight-up asked if they offer couples counselling for same-sex couples I was told No, their counsellors are only trained to deal with male-female couples.
I then tried another counsellor who has lots of qualifications and ancillary skills. Only to have me and my partner referred to as “you and your friend” before a quick retraction of words, an appointment basically made for us before more information was given (especially the vital information that it would cost € 90 a session, no idea of how long the session would be or where it would be held!)
The third counsellor I tried ended up with a Fax tone from the phone number supplied!

Any advice on a better way to search for counsellor, or where to find more detailed information about different counsellors in an area would be greatly appreciated.

The Black Oil

If you Google 'same sex counselling' and set the results pages to Ireland, a few things comes up, some articles, one or two organisations and your thread. I presume you've looked at some LGBT resources for suggestions?

Odysseus

If its about LBGT issues contact the Gay Men's Health Project in Dublin, However, in my opinion most psychotherapists should have enough training around sexuality that they should be able to deal with most LBGT issues. Sorry I don't have a number handy for the Gay Mens Health project, but I have worked with them over the years, and the have a network of contacts, the may be a Gay Mens Health Project based in your locality

Hope that helps.

hotspur

Accord are an explicitly Catholic organisation, just in case you think their attitude is in any way representative of the counselling profession, it isn't, it's representative of the Catholic church.

In relation to the lack of information provided by counsellors in their literature and ads, it is part of the ethical code of counselling regulatory bodies that it be that sparse. To be honest if you have ever read the trashy ads you often find the field of complimentary therapy I think it's a good thing that counsellors don't have to compete by wooing clients and offering wonderful fixes.

It's difficult for anyone choosing a therapist. Ringing ones up like you have and interviewing them is the way to go really. In addition to the IACP site there is the ICP site:
http://www.psychotherapy-ireland.com/find/

If finding a therapist who specifically has an interest / experience of same sex couples therapy is important than perhaps, in addition to the mentioned resources, the therapists at Aria therapy in Dublin might be in a position to recommend someone in Limerick. Aria is staffed by gay counsellors and aimed at the LGBT community www.ariatherapy.com/, another possible for a recommendation in your area might be (no names allowed!) from Solisu counselling http://www.soilsiucounselling.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=4&Itemid=4. Or contact these: http://www.mrcs.ie/site/

Mods feel free to remove those recommendations, although recommendation for a recommendation seems like a recommendation removed for the recommendation not to be removed

Odysseus

hotspur wrote: »

Accord are an explicitly Catholic organisation, just in case you think their attitude is in any way representative of the counselling profession, it isn't, it's representative of the Catholic church.

In relation to the lack of information provided by counsellors in their literature and ads, it is part of the ethical code of counselling regulatory bodies that it be that sparse. To be honest if you have ever read the trashy ads you often find the field of complimentary therapy I think it's a good thing that counsellors don't have to compete by wooing clients and offering wonderful fixes.

It's difficult for anyone choosing a therapist. Ringing ones up like you have and interviewing them is the way to go really. In addition to the IACP site there is the ICP site:
http://www.psychotherapy-ireland.com/find/

If finding a therapist who specifically has an interest / experience of same sex couples therapy is important than perhaps, in addition to the mentioned resources, the therapists at Aria therapy in Dublin might be in a position to recommend someone in Limerick. Aria is staffed by gay counsellors and aimed at the LGBT community www.ariatherapy.com/, another possible for a recommendation in your area might be xxxxxx from Solisu counselling http://www.soilsiucounselling.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=4&Itemid=4. Or contact these: http://www.mrcs.ie/site/

Mods feel free to remove those recommendations, although recommendation for a recommendation seems like a recommendation removed for the recommendation not to be removed

My understanding is that we are all free to recommend organisations, that is fine Hotspur, it's only named individuals especially in private practise that can led to certain problems.

kiwipower

Thanks for all the great suggestions!!!!!
I'm not specifically looking for LGBT counselling but someone who is comfortable working with a same-sex couple. Relationships are relationships I don't see much difference between opposite sex and same sex couples. Except for possible the removal of Gender based roles/stereotypes/cultural conditioning, and the understanding of cultural variations. That said I would not like to deal with someone whose own cultural mind set is to call LGBT partners as "Friends" to me this indicates they are not comfortable or maybe just not educated enough to deal with the cultural differences.

kiwipower

hotspur wrote: »

Accord are an explicitly Catholic organisation, just in case you think their attitude is in any way representative of the counselling profession, it isn't, it's representative of the Catholic church.

Yeah, I had thought before I contacted them that I would run into this issue with them being a Catholic organisation so had put off contacting them. I was then chatting to my mother in NZ who is a strong active Catholic and she took the view of "why should they (Accord) have an issue with us being a same-sex couple? After all they are a Christian charity and their Christian duty should be to support all members of the community, and that surly they have members of their own families (or even themselves) that may identify as LGBT. I guess may be the Catholic Church in NZ is a little more open minded than the Irish Catholic Church?

hotspur wrote: »

In relation to the lack of information provided by counsellors in their literature and ads, it is part of the ethical code of counselling regulatory bodies that it be that sparse. To be honest if you have ever read the trashy ads you often find the field of complimentary therapy I think it's a good thing that counsellors don't have to compete by wooing clients and offering wonderful fixes.

I didn't know this about the ethical code, interesting to note. I wouldn't really be looking for ads or expect counsellors to woo clients, but it would be handy if there was something a bit like say a CV, so you get a better idea of the skills and experience of a counsellor. A list of words on a page doesn't really give enough information to even start making an informed decision.

Odysseus

kiwipower wrote: »

Thanks for all the great suggestions!!!!!
I'm not specifically looking for LGBT counselling but someone who is comfortable working with a same-sex couple. Relationships are relationships I don't see much difference between opposite sex and same sex couples. Except for possible the removal of Gender based roles/stereotypes/cultural conditioning, and the understanding of cultural variations. That said I would not like to deal with someone whose own cultural mind set is to call LGBT partners as "Friends" to me this indicates they are not comfortable or maybe just not educated enough to deal with the cultural differences.

If I'm not misreading you here, any who would call a client's partner a "friend" would tell me they should not be working as a therapist. It implies a serious lack of personal work. It sounds to me then that any counsellor/or psychotherapist who works with couples should be suitable. It should be that simple, I sorry your experience is not matching the above.

It's an interesting topic so would you mind keeping us udated in you search, it doesn't have to be anything personal, just wether you find someone, but please avoid personal names, an organisation if fine.

kiwipower

In fairness to the professional, I was talking to as soon as the word "friend" was off their tongue they did apologise and say partner.

I have noticed previously that it is a common occurrence among Irish woman, over a certain age, to use the word “friend” when talking to me about my partner. I think it originates from an uncertainty of what is the politically correct word to use, especially if I am the first openly LGBT person they have meet.

While I will accept this use of terminology from most people, (though I usually try gently to point out that she is my partner not my “friend.”) I think a counsellor who will be working with a same-sex couple, while not needing to be part of the LGBT community themselves, should have a certain level of understanding of the same-sex culture or at least the correct terminology.

I will do my best to keep you all informed.
Thanks again for all your help!

JuliusCaesar

I think that the reason that the Gay Mens Health Project (? I think it's them) run a regular 3-day workshop for Therapists/Counsellors is that there is a crying need for it. It is not sufficiently covered in training courses.

Here are some diverse studies. A TA (!) account. A reporter goes undercover to therapists.

The website of Pink Therapy states that

first, that most therapy training organisations in the UK fail to address issues of sexual minority sexuality in their curricula. This means that therapists (of all sexualities) leaving these programmes are often inadequately trained to work with lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender clients. See our News section for more information about this.
second, that some sexual minority therapists seem to feel their qualification to work with lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender clients is simply a shared sexuality. In our view this is not sufficient, and can lead to inadequate and poor practice. All therapists working with gender and sexual minority clients need specific training to be able to work effectively with this client group.

and to be honest, I think they are dead right.

Odysseus

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

I think that the reason that the Gay Mens Health Project (? I think it's them) run a regular 3-day workshop for Therapists/Counsellors is that there is a crying need for it. It is not sufficiently covered in training courses.

Here are some diverse studies. A TA (!) account. A reporter goes undercover to therapists.

The website of Pink Therapy states that


and to be honest, I think they are dead right.

I don't know I agree and disagree. Well being a psychoanalyst there was a strong emphasis on sexuality. I did that course when it was a five day course, and to be honest I did not get a lot out of it.

I wouldn't write it off, but at the same time on a personal level it did not expand my knowledge. There was a personal story element facilitated by a trans-gendered person, I had some knowledge on the area but limited experience, so I got something out of that. However, it does say something if you gain the most learning out of a session of personal experience, if you get my point. Just reflecting on this as I write it.

If as a psychotherapist a person lacks enough knowledge to work with LBGT issues, really they should be sorting that out rapidly, well that plus having an experienced supervisor. That would just be my opinion, however, a psychotherapist out of training should be able to deal with any of the range of issues that may present, and of course you can't be on top of everything. However, you should have enough knowledge to deal with the topic in hand and use your supervision to tackle the practical areas.

JuliusCaesar

Maybe you didn't need it, Odysseus, but when I see the usual training for counsellors etc I do think there's a huge lacuna. I can't say that I got a lot from the 3 days, 5 days, whatever course, but my fellow participants generally left me feeling I had to preserve my therapy face.....ie blank, unshockable....when in fact my jaw was resting on my chest.

It's not knowledge, it's sensitivity.

Odysseus

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

Maybe you didn't need it, Odysseus, but when I see the usual training for counsellors etc I do think there's a huge lacuna. I can't say that I got a lot from the 3 days, 5 days, whatever course, but my fellow participants generally left me feeling I had to preserve my therapy face.....ie blank, unshockable....when in fact my jaw was resting on my chest.

It's not knowledge, it's sensitivity.

I think you last point is key, but generally therapy should explore one sexual life and ones fantasies, now I know we would differ on that but that's a difference in modalities.

Its one area when the couch comes in handy, as most people know I have re-started personal analysis. There was one aspect that I was hoping would not come into my mind, until I was on the couch. However, it did and I had to just deal with it. If I'm in a therapeutic situation I generally avoid eye contact for most of the session; I did this when I tried the Hospices Bereavement Service a few years back.

However, I'm going off point when one is on the couch you do not see the facial expressions of the analysis. Try as we might, we will always get caught out or show a look of some sort which may be interpreted wrongly by the client.

Another one being some of serious criminals that end up in my service, dwelling on acts of violence to try provoke something in you.

Upon thinking on it maybe my case is a tad different; I have five years of psychoanalysis which of course expresses a strong interest in all expressions of sexuality. Whereas if you compare that to a two year dip course maybe you have a strong point. However, that leads us to the issue of longer training for counsellors/psychotherapists; and of course you know I’m not claiming my training is superior.

As I said if you’re a psychotherapist you should be able to deal with all the presentations that may be open to your service. I may have by default ended up "specialising" [hate that word] in addiction, but the are no psych issues that I can think of that I would not feel I don't have enough experience to take the case on. Yes there would be ones where I would be thinking I need to bring this to supervision. I would expect that from all psychotherapists really, I don't buy the specialised treatments for different disorders. Yes you make have to work differently, but each case is different regardless of the diagnosis/disorder. Well from my viewpoint. Hope I haven't free associated to much ot.

kiwipower

All sorted (I hope!)

Rainbow Support Services put me in touch with a counsellor, who (over the phone) sounds like someone I could talk to.

We are off to our first session tonight. Dead anxious and a little scared about it! Have been all over the shop in my head and desicions for the last two day! And SOOO irritable and cranky last night (even more so than usual ) it just wasnt funny, and really no reason for it!

bureau2009

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

my fellow participants generally left me feeling I had to preserve my therapy face.....ie blank, unshockable....when in fact my jaw was resting on my chest.

It's not knowledge, it's sensitivity.

Interesting discussion!

But rummaging through my VERY hazy memory of reading Carl Rogers and Irvin D Yalom surely it is not enough for the therapist to "act" unshockable? The therapist ideally needs to BE unshockable, accepting and WALK WITH THE CLIENT through their experience?? (although I agree that at least being AWARE that you are shocked is a good starting point!!)

Any thoughts anyone?

sambuka41

bureau2009 wrote: »

Interesting discussion!

But rummaging through my VERY hazy memory of reading Carl Rogers and Irvin D Yalom surely it is not enough for the therapist to "act" unshockable? The therapist ideally needs to BE unshockable, accepting and WALK WITH THE CLIENT through their experience?? (although I agree that at least being AWARE that you are shocked is a good starting point!!)

Any thoughts anyone?

Impossible! There is no way, no matter how long you are working with people that you can be truly unshockable. There will always be something or other that will shock you, or at the least take you aback. And I dont think thats a bad thing either because you cant be a robot.

The therapist is human and has their own experiences,beliefs, motivations and desire that will come into the room with them. Its about managing that.

kiwipower

While I am not really qualified to comment on this (I am a service user not a therapist.)

I would feel that sambuka41 has the right of this.

I think I would be concerned if an individual regardless of their academic background/Training etc became so dethatched (or as sambuka41 says robotic) that they have absolutely no emotional response to things outside their own comfort zone/experiences.

I know from my own profession (Im a radiographer) that as long as I have been working in the area and as use to the range of human conditions and presentations as I am; there is still the odd case that would be outside the usual sphere of what I see and as a result would have an effect me.

I feel sambuka41 is right in that it’s about recognising and managing how as a professional we/you respond to a client/situation.

whydoibother

I too rang accord, not once but twice, and being gay I said so. Girl put me on hold and after a few minutes the line was disconnected. Tried 2nd time, phone was immediately put down so I emailed to complain and got no reply. This was sometime ago.
I was referred to accord by someone who holds an important position in the community and this person told me as well as many other people that accord dealt with everyone who needed Counselling on a sliding scale. Obviously, gay people do not count.
In any case, accord, as a counselling body, should treat everyone with respect. Putting down the phone and ignoring emails is just not the done thing by any counselling organisation in the world, except of course some that hypocritically claim to be helpful and supportive but in reality are not. I just had a few qurstions for them before I'd embark on a counselling session to avoid embarrassment and awkwardness to both parties. Instead of a frank and honest answer I got ignorance and silence!
Thanks

kiwipower wrote: »

I have spent the last month trying to identify a suitable counsellor from the likes of the IACP web-site and as a member of the general public I have found it infuriatingly difficult!

I know what specific “Therapeutic Services” I require assistance with (Relationship/Couples counselling in a same-sex relationship, with some history of bereavement.) The rest of the information I find to clinical and un-descriptive (and I come from a clinical background myself.) I also find it impossible to obtain even a basic feel of what the counsellors are like as an individual as there is nothing about them as a person on these websites.

I had to unpleasant experiences yesterday as a result that have almost put me off looking for a counsellor:
First I rang “Accord” in Limerick, when I bit the bullet and straight-up asked if they offer couples counselling for same-sex couples I was told No, their counsellors are only trained to deal with male-female couples.
I then tried another counsellor who has lots of qualifications and ancillary skills. Only to have me and my partner referred to as “you and your friend” before a quick retraction of words, an appointment basically made for us before more information was given (especially the vital information that it would cost € 90 a session, no idea of how long the session would be or where it would be held!)
The third counsellor I tried ended up with a Fax tone from the phone number supplied!

Any advice on a better way to search for counsellor, or where to find more detailed information about different counsellors in an area would be greatly appreciated.

Odysseus

whydoibother wrote: »

I too rang accord, not once but twice, and being gay I said so. Girl put me on hold and after a few minutes the line was disconnected. Tried 2nd time, phone was immediately put down so I emailed to complain and got no reply. This was sometime ago.
I was referred to accord by someone who holds an important position in the community and this person told me as well as many other people that accord dealt with everyone who needed Counselling on a sliding scale. Obviously, gay people do not count.
In any case, accord, as a counselling body, should treat everyone with respect. Putting down the phone and ignoring emails is just not the done thing by any counselling organisation in the world, except of course some that hypocritically claim to be helpful and supportive but in reality are not. I just had a few qurstions for them before I'd embark on a counselling session to avoid embarrassment and awkwardness to both parties. Instead of a frank and honest answer I got ignorance and silence!
Thanks

I find that shocking to be honest.