New silage pit

redmeadow

Hi,
I'm going to build a new silage base and i was interested in hearing any advice. I'm planning to build it 50m x 15m wide with earth bank walls. What can i do to minimise the cost? Does anyone have any experience with tarmacadam base, advantages, disadvantages and cost. Is there any other alternative for the base.

Dupont

if your not feeding a lot of stock dont have it very wide because by the time you block to the other side it could start to go off

moy83

redmeadow wrote: »

Hi,
I'm going to build a new silage base and i was interested in hearing any advice. I'm planning to build it 50m x 15m wide with earth bank walls. What can i do to minimise the cost? Does anyone have any experience with tarmacadam base, advantages, disadvantages and cost. Is there any other alternative for the base.

a long time ago we used to make pits straight onto a grass base with no side walls or anything just packed it well and trimmed the sides straight so the plastic would be tight not much went bad that way . i reckon the tar would erode from the effluent but i could be wrong

Red Sheds

I think the effluent will detroy the tarmacadam base in no time, as will tractors and other traffic driving and turning on it, it woulldnt last you a year. Asphalt would be a better base but I dont think effluent will be very kind to it either.

reilig

moy83 wrote: »

a long time ago we used to make pits straight onto a grass base with no side walls or anything just packed it well and trimmed the sides straight so the plastic would be tight not much went bad that way .

That's how we used to do it too. In 1984 or 85 (the really wet summer) I remember we had small pits of silage in several fields and we fed out of the pit in the winter. We had a 20 diesel with twin wheels and a buckrake on the back - when you think about the hardship. Anyway, pollution control did away with that - and its a good thing too.

In answer to the OP, I think a concrete base is the only way to go. Would a tarmac base even hold effluent? It definitely wouldn't stand up to wear and tear like a concrete one would.

Dunedin

redmeadow wrote: »

Hi,
I'm going to build a new silage base and i was interested in hearing any advice. I'm planning to build it 50m x 15m wide with earth bank walls. What can i do to minimise the cost? Does anyone have any experience with tarmacadam base, advantages, disadvantages and cost. Is there any other alternative for the base.

I would recommend concrete base. 40N strength.

wouldn't bother with walls either as it's much easier to seal the pit (no waste) with no walls and much easier to use your Shear grab.

however, the most important bit of advice regardless of what way you go is to make your pit so as you are opening from the high end first. That ensures that there is no water accumulating from behind the plastic as you roll it back. unfortuntely I know this from experience......... :(:(:(

MfMan

I suppose side walls and safety rails are out of the question? Makes the pit a little more difficult to seal but is safer when covering and opening. I doubt if you'd be allowed by Big Brother dept. to construct a slab made of tarmacadam. You'd need also to have some way of collecting the effluent or risk losing grants and SFP under cross compliance (or something).

I constructed my slab under the FWMS grant and had to acquire an effluent tank from Carlow for the run-off. This is my third year of feeding from it and am very pleased from points of view of feeding ease and speed, quality, less manual labour, less stuff pulled into the pens and wasted (thus tanks easier to agitate), less forking out etc.

Muckit

reilig wrote: »

I remember we had small pits of silage in several fields and we fed out of the pit in the winter. We had a 20 diesel with twin wheels and a buckrake on the back - when you think about the hardship.

Same as, only we couldn't use a tractor, we'd have lost it in the muck!:D A runway from the silage bench to the feeders made from old sheets of galvanise is what we used. Fill up your barrow and away you go. We'd three times the number of cows back then. They'd eat it as quick as you'd be forking it into them once they'd managed to wade into get it :rolleyes:

On the silage pit question, definitely concrete is the way to go and as high a Newton as you can. I see ours is down nearly 15years and the 'fat' is all burnt off it now and you can start to see the aggregate in places.

It'I be a dear job no matter how you work it, but it's the only thing that will stand up reasonably well to silage acid.

Edit: Can you imagine when the SFP goes? Lads will be trying to cut corners every which way. Any farm waste mangement work costs an arm and a leg. Take the grants out of it and the fear of losing your SFP and increasingly low income returns...... the mind boggles...

5live

I have 2 14x35m silage pits side by side, up 10 years now and no problems. IMO 40N concrete is the only way to go. The tar will be corroded by acid from the silage and will peel off when turning the wheels of the tractor/digger leaving potholes and no containment of effluent. My only regret was in not putting a wall between the pits as i think it would make sealing easier. Im not sure about earthen walls though. Will you have to seal the walls with plastic to stop seepage? Is there a danger of slippage after heavy rain fall and you and the tractor below it? Has any body used earthen walls as i have earth on one side but havent used it for the above reasons? Yet:D

Muckit

5live wrote: »

Has any body used earthen walls?

No, but on youtube there's loads of clips of english lads using them. As you mentioned though, they line the earth banks with polythene. You'd definitely get more into the pit. Would be worth trying it out some year to see. I couldn't see there being any problems once you lapped the sheets right and sealed well on top

Bizzum

redmeadow wrote: »

Does anyone have any experience with tarmacadam base,

Hi Redmeadow, Is there such thing? or are you just asking?

I'v seen a lot of silage pits, but never tarmacadam. Has anybody on here seen anything other than concrete or earth?

denis086

Only really long term solution is concrete just look at the roads after the frost granted youd probaly put it down better yourself than the council all it takes is water to get under it or a machine to leak a bit of oil on it and the surface would be ruined
I would advise going for the earth bank but put a mass concrete wall or block wall up a couple of feet we had a block wall at the base of the bank and it was much better the slope on the bank was smaller so it wasnt affected by the frost we knocked the wall when we refloored the slab and didnt replace it but kept the bank but the slope is much sharper and during the frost the bank had parts crumble. When the wall was there it was much easier to get the grabs out near the edge without risking pulling at the bank or catching the plastic that has to be draped down over it and out onto the concrete a few feet
I presume you dont pick up the silage yourself but having the bank to build a pit against is an advantage and tyres can be left on it when your rolling back the cover when its being used. You can drive onto it and dump buckrakes of tyre onto the pit while its being covered

Juniorhurler

[QUOTE=denis086;70152252
I would advise going for the earth bank but put a mass concrete wall or block wall up a couple of feet we had a block wall at the base of the bank and it was much better the slope on the bank was smaller so it wasnt affected by the frost we knocked the wall when we refloored the slab and didnt replace it but kept the bank but the slope is much sharper and during the frost the bank had parts crumble. When the wall was there it was much easier to get the grabs out near the edge without risking pulling at the bank or catching the plastic that has to be draped down over it and out onto the concrete a few feet
I presume you dont pick up the silage yourself but having the bank to build a pit against is an advantage and tyres can be left on it when your rolling back the cover when its being used. You can drive onto it and dump buckrakes of tyre onto the pit while its being covered[/QUOTE]

Agree 100%. We have one pit with earth one side and a wall the other. We find it easier to cover and open on the earth side, but marginally easier to get silage out of the wall side.

Jack C

Just picture this,
Early June, hottest day of the year, young fella no long out of short trousers roarin into the yard on 175 horses of John Deere with a tandem axel redrock
behind full to the gills of sappy grass. Its the first load so he has the whole 750 square meters of brand new "tarmac" slab thats baking in the sun, to himself.
After tipping the load, what tarmac he hasn't ripped up has been carried back out to the field on the wheels.
Amm..... I think concrete would be better.

C0N0R

Jack C wrote: »

Just picture this,
Early June, hottest day of the year, young fella no long out of short trousers roarin into the yard on 175 horses of John Deere with a tandem axel redrock
behind full to the gills of sappy grass. Its the first load so he has the whole 750 square meters of brand new "tarmac" slab thats baking in the sun, to himself.
After tipping the load, what tarmac he hasn't ripped up has been carried back out to the field on the wheels.
Amm..... I think concrete would be better.

I can see this happening in me head, cheers for the smile! Betcha the lad had the beacons going, double ones and all. And a sticker on the front sayin "Fulla d pipe" or somethin like that.

redmeadow

I have spoke to my local building contractor about it. Asphalt is an alternative and its not affected by silage effluent but would need more care in regards loader teeth and tyres twisting on it. The silage would be tipped on a concrete base in front of silage pit so trailors would not need to be driving on it. It costs the same per m3 as 40N concrete but needs a concrete base under it. It's ideally suited to upgrading an existing yard as the previous concrete would not need to be removed. I'm not going to consider it because it's to costly and will inevitably get damaged at some stage.
Definitely going with earth walls from what i hear about them.

jtex

when on the topic of silage, man beside me is selling pit silage, just wondered how many 5ft blocks would make up 1 round bale of precission chopped. cheers

pakalasa

The norm now seems to be to pour the whole slab in one pour and then go along after and cut in the expansion joints. They dont cut the concrete right through, just the top 2/3 or so. It's much better, than putting in timber boards. Better flow off it too.

cjpm

Guys check out GGBS concrete. Lasts at least 3 times longer than normal portland cement concrete when it comes to the silage effluent..

Is stronger than normal concrete and almost the same price, only available as readymix, not all companies do it. MAKE SURE THE CONCRETE IS CURED CORRECTLY!!! Otherwise you are just wasting money.

The NRA insist on it for bridge decks. Honestly, it's the only way to go.

http://www.ecocem.ie/index.php?p=technical

Would definetly go for at least 2 walls, way easier to feed out of. Also less chance of cattle breaking onto it.

Asphalt is too soft, very easily damaged.

Sealing a pit with walls is not too difficult if you put strips of plastic over the wall and fold them onto the pit when it's filled. then put the normal sheets over the lot.

Muckit

redmeadow wrote: »

I have spoke to my local building contractor about it. Asphalt is an alternative and its not affected by silage effluent

Resurrected this thread again because there's an article about asphalt silage bases it in this week's IFJ.

Alot of very interesting facts that I didn't know.

Firstly asphalt is different to tarmac apparently:) Asphalt is what they use on motorways. It's tougher than tarmac and as good, if not better than concrete as a silage base, according to the article. When you think about, what pothole did you ever see on a motorway?? Even after this winter, not a one and the amount of traffic on it. Your not going to have that level of 'traffic' on your silage base!

As regards effluent, it's not an issue either. The man that was in case study had it down 25years and (from the pics), it looked as good as the first day it went down.

Re pricing, it works out at €13+VAT/sq. m (laided). But you cant' compare this price directly with concrete/sq.m, because you only need 40mm (rolled) of this stuff down as compared to what 5"? (125mm) of concrete,

I think it could be a runner if a lad had to redo their base. Concrete doen't stick to concrete, so you'd probably have to rip old oine up and lay new one.

With the asphalt, you could lay new surface on top of old concrete base (so long as it's structurally sound).

reilig

It was a great article. Note that they were recommending it for resurfacing the base rather than constructing it originally from asphalt - I wonder how strong it would be for a new silage base???

Muckit wrote: »

Resurrected this thread again because there's an article about asphalt silage bases it in this week's IFJ.

Alot of very interesting facts that I didn't know.

Firstly asphalt is different to tarmac apparently:) Asphalt is what they use on motorways. It's tougher than tarmac and as good, if not better than concrete as a silage base, according to the article. When you think about, what pothole did you ever see on a motorway?? Even after this winter, not a one and the amount of traffic on it. Your not going to have that level of 'traffic' on your silage base!

As regards effluent, it's not an issue either. The man that was in case study had it down 25years and (from the pics), it looked as good as the first day it went down.

Re pricing, it works out at €13+VAT/sq. m (laided). But you cant' compare this price directly with concrete/sq.m, because you only need 40mm (rolled) of this stuff down as compared to what 5"? (125mm) of concrete,

I think it could be a runner if a lad had to redo their base. Concrete doen't stick to concrete, so you'd probably have to rip old oine up and lay new one.

With the asphalt, you could lay new surface on top of old concrete base (so long as it's structurally sound).

Muckit

reilig wrote: »

I wonder how strong it would be for a new silage base???

Ya I don't know Reilig, I wouldn't be as convinced about this. I'd definitely consider it down the road if and when we've to re-do ours.

alyb8

We have an old pit built in the 70's but renewed in about 15/16 years ago. The walls are block plastered, strong plaster with a steel trowel finish and water repellent added, the floor is concrete c40 with a power float finish (like Glass) and its almost like new. For the first 3 years we covered walls and floors with plastic, expensive at the time but i think it was well worth it looking at its condition now! It gave it a good chance to dry out and to keep the grass away from the concrete. What we do now is treat the floor with burnt oil (waste oil) prior to putting in the grass (keeps if semi water proof). The stock have never refused it either and it does NOT rot your pit of grass!

Im an engineer or at least supposed to be lol and in answer to the op, i personally would go with a low wall prob about 1.200 to 1.500 high (shuttered concrete with a high finish) on top of one large slab, yes no expansion joints required! Concrete will expand and contract uniformly if it has uniform depth, so if good prep work is done prior to placing the grey stuff and most importantly you place it all in the one go, youll be fine. Good idea to have a fall in the floor, directed towards the walls, where a 2" land drain can be laid to remove the run off quickly, after all this is the problem, so get it away quickly. Asphalt is expensive and i would probably go for it if i were resurfacing, but looking at ours that wont be for at least another 10-12 years. maintenance is essential, dont let the young lad with the "i fear no deer" at it and dont attack it every year with a your new 3000psi power hose either, after all silage is partially rotted grass and all the pit needs is to be well soaked for a day before brushing it and hosing of the dirt with an ordinary mains water hose!

reilig

I'm usually the last one to speak on environmental issues and its normally people criticising me but I wouldn't be a fan of putting silage on concrete that was treated with used engine oil. Its a Carcinogenic. ie It causes cancer. Cows eating silage that has been left on top of used oil means that the cow takes in the Carcinogens which contaminate any calf inside her, her own meat and her milk - some of which will ultimately be passed into the human food chain. Burned oil may not rot your pit of grass, but it could be rotting the bodies of those who eat your farm produce.

The toxic feed scare in the pig sector in 2009 was a result of burned oil. Look at the chaos and loss of money that it caused.

alyb8 wrote: »

We have an old pit built in the 70's but renewed in about 15/16 years ago. The walls are block plastered, strong plaster with a steel trowel finish and water repellent added, the floor is concrete c40 with a power float finish (like Glass) and its almost like new. For the first 3 years we covered walls and floors with plastic, expensive at the time but i think it was well worth it looking at its condition now! It gave it a good chance to dry out and to keep the grass away from the concrete. What we do now is treat the floor with burnt oil (waste oil) prior to putting in the grass (keeps if semi water proof). The stock have never refused it either and it does NOT rot your pit of grass!

Im an engineer or at least supposed to be lol and in answer to the op, i personally would go with a low wall prob about 1.200 to 1.500 high (shuttered concrete with a high finish) on top of one large slab, yes no expansion joints required! Concrete will expand and contract uniformly if it has uniform depth, so if good prep work is done prior to placing the grey stuff and most importantly you place it all in the one go, youll be fine. Good idea to have a fall in the floor, directed towards the walls, where a 2" land drain can be laid to remove the run off quickly, after all this is the problem, so get it away quickly. Asphalt is expensive and i would probably go for it if i were resurfacing, but looking at ours that wont be for at least another 10-12 years. maintenance is essential, dont let the young lad with the "i fear no deer" at it and dont attack it every year with a your new 3000psi power hose either, after all silage is partially rotted grass and all the pit needs is to be well soaked for a day before brushing it and hosing of the dirt with an ordinary mains water hose!

Muckit

reilig wrote: »

I'm usually the last one to speak on environmental issues and its normally people criticising me but I wouldn't be a fan of putting silage on concrete that was treated with used engine oil. Its a Carcinogenic.

I'd have to agree. Leave the burnt oil for rubbing on machinery, not your silage base