Mayo Man Jailed For Manslaughter

Hank_Jones

Didn't see a thread on this, feel free to delete if there is one.

A 24-year-old man has been sentenced to six years in prison for the manslaughter of his sister's partner in Co Mayo in 2009.
Fintan McKenna, of Woodlands, Balla, Castlebar had denied the murder of Francis Heneghan in Kiltimagh, Co Mayo, on 12 August, 2009 but was convicted of manslaughter at his trial last year.
Mr Heneghan, a construction worker and father-of-three, bled to death in a laneway in Kiltimagh after being stabbed 11 times. One of the wounds penetrated his heart.
The trial heard that McKenna, originally from Artane in Dublin, did not get on with Mr Heneghan.
At the time of the killing, there was animosity between the pair over the victim's treatment of Mr McKenna's sister.
McKenna had earlier been challenged to a fight by Mr Heneghan but had refused. He later armed himself with a knife because he was afraid.
The trial heard that on the night of the killing Mr Heneghan had 'run or lunged' into a laneway where McKenna was and began fighting. Mr Heneghan was later found bleeding to death.
In a victim impact statement, Mr Heneghan's sister said the family still suffered from pain, shock and disbelief at his death.
Yvonne Barrett said the family's view of this country as a safe and fair place had changed after her brother's most basic right, the right to life, had been cruelly and unjustly take from him.
Ms Barrett described Mr Heneghan as a dedicated father of three children who did not deserve to die.
She said the family was 'paralysed by grief and pain since his meaningless death' and had nightmares about the 'horror he suffered during his last moments in a dark back street in Kiltimagh'.
Defence counsel said McKenna had been told on the night that Mr Heneghan may have been armed with a baseball bat and he was afraid.
He had offered to plead guilty to manslaughter, but this was rejected by the prosecution.
Senior Counsel Martin Giblin said McKenna had moved with his family from Dublin because his parents thought he would avoid getting into trouble if he left Dublin.
The court heard he was champion pool player who had represented Mayo and Ireland at international level and was good enough to become professional.
After the killing, McKenna had attended a residential course for addition to alcohol.
An apology to the Heneghan family was read to the court in which he said there was not a day that went by when he did not think of what had happened. He said he did not mean it to happen and was sorry.
Mr Justice John Edwards said the killing arose out of a lethal cocktail of drink, drugs and the carrying of a knife.
He said the fact that Mr McKenna had armed himself with a knife having previously been told to leave the area by gardaí was an aggravating factor.
However, he took into account his offer to plead guilty to manslaughter at an early stage and his apology to the victim's family, which he believed was genuine.

He stabbed the guy 11 times, I fail to see how that counts as manslaughter.

6 years for killing someone?
He was carrying a knife, hardly a saint...

Phill Ewinn

He'll be out in four. If a woman stabbed him she'd probably get off scot free.

MIRMIR82

Jaysus, you'd get more for shop-lifting. This country is focked up big time.:mad:

FreudianSlippers

Manslaughter is an unlawful killing that is not murder and currently consists of two categories, voluntary manslaughter and involuntary manslaughter. Voluntary manslaughter deals with what would otherwise be murder but where there is some excusing circumstance - such as provocation - which reduces the offence from murder to manslaughter.

Involuntary manslaughter currently comprises two sub-categories. First, manslaughter by an unlawful and dangerous act, where the killing involves an act constituting a criminal offence, carrying with it the risk of bodily harm to the person killed. The People (DPP) v Wayne O’Donoghue (2005), which involved an assault resulting in death, was a conviction for unlawful and dangerous act manslaughter.

The second sub-category is gross negligence manslaughter, where the death arises from a negligent act or omission by the accused involving a high risk of substantial personal injury. In The People (DPP) v Cullagh (1998) the accused was convicted of gross negligence manslaughter after a woman died when her chair became detached from a 20-year-old chairoplane ride at the accused’s funfair. He had bought the chairoplane after it had been in an open field for 3 years. Although the accused only became aware after the death that there was rust on the inside of the chairoplane which had caused the accident, he was aware of its generally decrepit state when he bought it.

FreudianSlippers

MIRMIR82 wrote: »

Jaysus, you'd get more for shop-lifting. This country is focked up big time.:mad:

Would have been a similar outcome in any common-law country. :rolleyes: at these Joe Duffy reactions

sheesh

How can you stab someone 11 times and it then be considered manslaughter

MIRMIR82

I do apologise for my Joe Duffy response, but stabbing someone and leaving them to bleed to death is murder in my book. I could never, regardless of how frightened i was, stab another human-being unless fighting for my life. Doesnt sound like the victim actually had a weapon.

FreudianSlippers

sheesh wrote: »

How can you stab someone 11 times and it then be considered manslaughter

Mr Heneghan challenged the accused to the fight.

The accused got a knife out of fear.

Mr Heneghan started the fight in question.



Clearly the courts were satisfied that there were sufficient circumstances, such as provocation, self-defence, etc. - coupled with an early guilty plea that the appropriate charge was voluntary manslaughter.

Ash.J.Williams

sheesh wrote: »

How can you stab someone 11 times and it then be considered manslaughter

If there was any kind of provocation

FreudianSlippers

MIRMIR82 wrote: »

I do apologise for my Joe Duffy response, but stabbing someone and leaving them to bleed to death is murder in my book. I could never, regardless of how frightened i was, stab another human-being unless fighting for my life. Doesnt sound like the victim actually had a weapon.

Murder occurs if a person intended to kill, or cause serious injury to, another person who dies as a result.

The key element of intent exists in murder. Obviously, death is a consequence of stabbing anyone... but clearly Mr Heneghan provoked the attack and in such circumstances it was not correct, legally, to charge him with murder.

Had Mr Heneghan been armed with a knife as well the accused may have received even less time.

nacho libre

sheesh wrote: »

How can you stab someone 11 times and it then be considered manslaughter

what if you're paralysed with fear and your actions are motivated by it rather than malicious forethought? for example say I launch an on attack you, you happen to pick up a fire iron and continually beat me with it because you are afraid of your life of me. yet it is only afterwards you realise you've gone too far and are full of regret. in that circumstance should you should be charged with murder? i don't think so.

stovelid

Phill Ewinn wrote: »

If a woman stabbed him she'd probably get off scot free.

She rode your mate. Get over it.

Big Nasty

Misleading title - he May have lived in Mayo but he was from Dublin.

Naikon

He should be glad he wansn't charged and jailed in the states. Leniant sentance for basically taking another life. He should learn.

lugha

OisinT wrote: »

Manslaughter is an unlawful killing that is not murder and currently consists of two categories, voluntary manslaughter and involuntary manslaughter. Voluntary manslaughter deals with what would otherwise be murder but where there is some excusing circumstance - such as provocation - which reduces the offence from murder to manslaughter.

Involuntary manslaughter currently comprises two sub-categories. First, manslaughter by an unlawful and dangerous act, where the killing involves an act constituting a criminal offence, carrying with it the risk of bodily harm to the person killed. The People (DPP) v Wayne O’Donoghue (2005), which involved an assault resulting in death, was a conviction for unlawful and dangerous act manslaughter.

The second sub-category is gross negligence manslaughter, where the death arises from a negligent act or omission by the accused involving a high risk of substantial personal injury. In The People (DPP) v Cullagh (1998) the accused was convicted of gross negligence manslaughter after a woman died when her chair became detached from a 20-year-old chairoplane ride at the accused’s funfair. He had bought the chairoplane after it had been in an open field for 3 years. Although the accused only became aware after the death that there was rust on the inside of the chairoplane which had caused the accident, he was aware of its generally decrepit state when he bought it.

May I ask, if you know, and in light of the above, what was the legal thinking behind the rational for deeming the murder of Jerry McCabe as manslaughter? It doesn't seem to quite fit with the interpretation of manslaughter that you give above? Thanks.

TeddyTedson

I don't know why involuntary manslaughter is a crime. If I kill someone by accident I don't see why I should do time.

Hank_Jones

MCMLXXV wrote: »

Misleading title - he May have lived in Mayo but he was from Dublin.

I just took it from the RTE news title.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0117/heneghanf.html

AckwelFoley

Bob's sister has a husband called peter. Each night peter walks in the door drunk, beats bobs sister, and as a result of one beating ended up in hospital. Bobs sister can never have children now as a result of one of the beatings and is blind in one eye. Bob asks his sister to leave peter but cant because of the fear she is under. The beatings continue.

Bob loves his sister.

Bob leaves a knife stuck in Peter's forehead - killing him.


Does bob deserve more than 6 years in Jail?



You see, most people read a few lines of a newspaper clipping and assume all the details in it are the details of the case and that the judge makes his decision on the sam details you read in the paper.

AckwelFoley

TeddyTedson wrote: »

I don't know why involuntary manslaughter is a crime. If I kill someone by accident I don't see why I should do time.

Driving down o connell street in a cement lorry doing 100kph.. you crash and kill someone - it was an accident as you didnt mean to intentionally kill someone, but you were responsible

ArseLtd

snyper wrote: »

Bob's sister has a husband called peter. Each night peter walks in the door drunk, beats bobs sister, and as a result of one beating ended up in hospital. Bobs sister can never have children now as a result of one of the beatings and is blind in one eye. Bob asks his sister to leave peter but cant because of the fear she is under. The beatings continue.

Bob loves his sister.

Bob leaves a knife stuck in Peter's forehead - killing him.


Does bob deserve more than 6 years in Jail?



You see, most people read a few lines of a newspaper clipping and assume all the details in it are the details of the case and that the judge makes his decision on the sam details you read in the paper.

Yup. Anything I read in the newspaper that I had previously known about the newspaper had a completely differant, wrong story. Which leads me to believe that a newspaper should be bought with a pound of salt to go with it.

blueser

snyper wrote: »

Bob's sister has a husband called peter. Each night peter walks in the door drunk, beats bobs sister, and as a result of one beating ended up in hospital. Bobs sister can never have children now as a result of one of the beatings and is blind in one eye. Bob asks his sister to leave peter but cant because of the fear she is under. The beatings continue.

Bob loves his sister.

Bob leaves a knife stuck in Peter's forehead - killing him.


Does bob deserve more than 6 years in Jail?



You see, most people read a few lines of a newspaper clipping and assume all the details in it are the details of the case and that the judge makes his decision on the sam details you read in the paper.

Devil's advocate here; where, in Irish law, is the provision for 'Bob' to take the law into his own hands when the assaults are taking place on a third party?

AckwelFoley

blueser wrote: »

Devil's advocate here; where, in Irish law, is the provision for 'Bob' to take the law into his own hands when the assaults are taking place on a third party?

There is none as far as i know unless they can prove some form of Provocation.

My point was simply to those that are outraged by the case when they simply dont know the facts or motives

bonerm

Hank_Jones wrote: »

He stabbed the guy 11 times, I fail to see how that counts as manslaughter.

Now I'm not a fancy big city lawyer but I believe you have to show premeditation for it to count as murder. *bawk bakawk*

MIRMIR82

snyper wrote: »

Bob's sister has a husband called peter. Each night peter walks in the door drunk, beats bobs sister, and as a result of one beating ended up in hospital. Bobs sister can never have children now as a result of one of the beatings and is blind in one eye. Bob asks his sister to leave peter but cant because of the fear she is under. The beatings continue.

Bob loves his sister.

Bob leaves a knife stuck in Peter's forehead - killing him.


Does bob deserve more than 6 years in Jail?



You see, most people read a few lines of a newspaper clipping and assume all the details in it are the details of the case and that the judge makes his decision on the sam details you read in the paper.

He got 6 months!!

walshb

sheesh wrote: »

How can you stab someone 11 times and it then be considered manslaughter

Why are you suprised? This is Ireland... Been happening for years now.
There have been far "worse" cases where people have been stabbed dozens
and dozens of times and he perpetrators have been getting done for manslaughter. The law is an ass, and a big ass on this island!

TeddyTedson

snyper wrote: »

Driving down o connell street in a cement lorry doing 100kph.. you crash and kill someone - it was an accident as you didnt mean to intentionally kill someone, but you were responsible

Yea but putting me in prison is pointless. I'm not a danger to anyone. It was a one off accident that could happen to anyone.
Maybe I should have to cover all funeral expenses or something though.

AckwelFoley

TeddyTedson wrote: »

Yea but putting me in prison is pointless. I'm not a danger to anyone. It was a one off accident that could happen to anyone.
Maybe I should have to cover all funeral expenses or something though.

Padraig Nally is not a danger to anyone either, unless you are constantly trying to rob him and break into his home

FreudianSlippers

blueser wrote: »

Devil's advocate here; where, in Irish law, is the provision for 'Bob' to take the law into his own hands when the assaults are taking place on a third party?

There is none and if this killing was pre-meditated it would definitely be murder.

However, the circumstances seem to be that this was going on and Mr Heneghan attacked the accused in the streets.

The basic concept you're asking about is enshrined in s.18 of the Non-Fatal Offences Against the Person Act and basically allows use of reasonable force for protection of ones self, others or property

There is also provision via commonlaw which allows for reasonable force to be used in self defence which would be in addition to these statutory provisions and would cover circumstances where self defence results in homicide.
In People v. Kealty, it was basically established that if you thought the force was reasonable, and the jury thought objectively the force was reasonable you get an acquittal.
However if you honestly thought the force was reasonable but the jury thinks it was objectively unreasonable you get convicted of manslaughter. Thirdly, though, if the jury do not believe you honestly thought the force was reasonable you are convicted of murder.

BTW I should add that if you are armed with an illegal weapon (gun or knife, etc.) you cannot be acquitted of the homicide regardless of any elements of self-defence. The very minimum punishment in these circumstances is manslaughter - and IIRC it is voluntary manslaughter.

bonerm wrote: »

Now I'm not a fancy big city lawyer but I believe you have to show premeditation for it to count as murder. *bawk bakawk*

Not pre-meditation necessarily. You just have to prove the elements of the offence. For murder, those elements are twofold: the intent to kill or seriously injure another where the person actually dies.
The mens rea (or mental element) of the offence is the intent to kill or seriously injure, whereas the actus reus (or guilty act) is the physical act of killing.

Premeditation really only goes to show severity of the murder in the circumstances or shows that it act could not have been manslaughter.

CorkMan

It's alright....one less caravan to travel our roads. *Haaaaaaaaay*

Oh wait, he left behind 3 kids. Sh*t.

sean_crawford

Can't see what the fuss is all about.

A man stabs someone to death and is found guilty of manslaughter - case closed.

As a rationally thinking Irishman, I see no problem stabbing someone to death as long as you didn't mean to kill them.

And shure, if 1 stab is to the heart which proves fatal, the attacker probably didn't mean to do it.

People need to stop whining about nothing.

FreudianSlippers

lugha wrote: »

May I ask, if you know, and in light of the above, what was the legal thinking behind the rational for deeming the murder of Jerry McCabe as manslaughter? It doesn't seem to quite fit with the interpretation of manslaughter that you give above? Thanks.

I don't actually know what's up with that. They were originally charged with Capital Murder (the most severe of murder charges) but they were re-arraigned and immediately plead guilty to manslaughter.

They did get the longest known sentences for manslaughter though.

That all went on in the Special Criminal Court, so all bets are off in there.

Logical Fallacy

Hank_Jones wrote: »

Didn't see a thread on this, feel free to delete if there is one.



He stabbed the guy 11 times, I fail to see how that counts as manslaughter.

6 years for killing someone?
He was carrying a knife, hardly a saint...

Look, the Irish Courts have a long history of putting the blame on everything except the person in question. Drink, drugs, childhood, financial situation, peer pressure ..... whatever.

FreudianSlippers

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

Look, the Irish Courts have a long history of putting the blame on everything except the person in question. Drink, drugs, childhood, financial situation, peer pressure ..... whatever.

I would disagree with this. I think the Irish Courts have a history, especially in recent years, of applying justice according to legislation and common law both fairly and consistently according to the case and the charge.

You also have to remember that it is the Director of Public Prosecutions (the State) and not the Courts that bring the charges against these people and it is (in most cases) the Jury (the Sovereign) that decides on the issue of guilt.

Sentencing after these matters has concluded is a process which is complex and considers many factors, both aggravating and mitigating. It is a process which many people criticise without understanding but it is a fair system.

We have a much more fair, just, consistent and appropriate system of sentencing and trial than they do in places like the USA. We, for example, do not allow the disgusting practice of "plea bargaining".

Doublin

I know Finny, a decent bloke who you wouldn't think be capable of something like this. It was stupid of him to carry the knife but I'm sure the full story leading up to the incident came out in court and that's why the sentence was what it was.

Killer Pigeon

What's the difference between a Mayo man and a man from anywhere else in Ireland?

Dyr

OisinT wrote: »

T
BTW I should add that if you are armed with an illegal weapon (gun or knife, etc.) you cannot be acquitted of the homicide regardless of any elements of self-defence. The very minimum punishment in these circumstances is manslaughter - and IIRC it is voluntary manslaughter.

Is the term "illegal weapon important"? I mean if you're in a self defencey situation and you pick up a brick, then it's an illegal weapon straight away I presume, you've no other reason to be holding the item except as a weapon.

extra-ordinary_

lugha wrote: »

May I ask, if you know, and in light of the above, what was the legal thinking behind the rational for deeming the murder of Jerry McCabe as manslaughter? It doesn't seem to quite fit with the interpretation of manslaughter that you give above? Thanks.

Surely,

'Involuntary manslaughter currently comprises two sub-categories. First, manslaughter by an unlawful and dangerous act, where the killing involves an act constituting a criminal offence, carrying with it the risk of bodily harm to the person killed. '

FreudianSlippers

Bambi wrote: »

Is the term "illegal weapon important"? I mean if you're in a self defencey situation and you pick up a brick, then it's an illegal weapon straight away I presume, you've no other reason to be holding the item except as a weapon.

No, specifically it means a weapon that there is legislation providing it is unlawful - eg knives and guns.

Importantly with knives, they include basically anything that can be used as a knife in the situation... so technically a screwdriver could be a "knife"... to carry one in public without good reason may constitute an offence.

One of the examples that comes up a lot is those knives that carpet-layers carry. If you're a carpet layer, then carrying one at 6pm on O'Connell Street you are justified carrying it.
But carrying one even as a carpet layer at 1am on O'Connell Street you are not justified in carrying it.

lugha

extra-ordinary_ wrote: »

Surely,

'Involuntary manslaughter currently comprises two sub-categories. First, manslaughter by an unlawful and dangerous act, where the killing involves an act constituting a criminal offence, carrying with it the risk of bodily harm to the person killed. '

I guess my actual question was, why was it deemed manslaughter and not murder.