Inactive Bus Lanes

**Timbuk2**

I was walking down the N11 today, and I saw the sign for the bus lane. It so happens that the bus lane along the N11 isn't active on Sundays, or indeed after 7pm on other days. This is a property that I forgot about bus lanes - most bus lanes operate like this, apart from 24hr bus corridors - right?

What is the procedure for inactive bus lanes? Can cars freely drive in them? Do they then become the driving lane, and the other lanes become overtaking lanes? From observing traffic, this doesn't seem to be the case. If you drive in the bus lane, and wish to overtake a car in Lane 1, can you overtake on the left or must you move to Lane 2 and overtake? Should they be used, or should they only be used if you wish to turn left some distance ahead?

Thanks. This is probably common sense to most people but I learned to drive in a place where bus lanes don't exist :P

ADIDriving

Yes. Most bus lanes are 7am to 7pm monday to saturday. There are other variations. The times are written on the white plate on the bus lane sign. Get someone to help read them as you drive by if needed.
If the bus lane is not active, it becomes the left hand, driving lane. This is therefor, usually the correct lane to drive in. Not many people do this. But it is great if you are trying to get out of a city just after seven. You can pass on the left if the traffic is moving slowly. You should not be passing them if they are driving at a reasonable speed.

trad

A significant portion of the bus lane on the N11 is a 24 hour 7 day bus lane.

Mezcita

Don't think so.

From memory its 24 hour up to Foxrock church. 7am-7pm for the rest of the way in.

**Timbuk2**

Thanks ADIDriving - that was helpful! Although not what I noticed today. Most cars didn't use the bus lane, and some of those that did were overtaking on the left - and traffic wasn't moving in slow queues! But then you could argue that the times that bus lanes are closed tend to be the quieter times on the road, so it isn't all that necessary to move into it when making reasonable progress in Lane 1.

I walked from UCD to Stillorgan along the N11, and only noticed one sign that said it - I just assumed it was all the N11.

But I'm wondering, more generally, about bus lanes that stop being bus lanes at certain times, not specifically the N11 - it's just the sign on the N11 that caught my attention and got me thinking.

ADIDriving

**Timbuk2** wrote: »

not what I noticed today. Most cars didn't use the bus lane, and some of those that did were overtaking on the left - and traffic wasn't moving in slow queues!

People not driving as they are supposed to.

trad

Mezcita wrote: »

Don't think so.

From memory its 24 hour up to Foxrock church. 7am-7pm for the rest of the way in.

The 24 hour section is significant, especially if you are using the bus lane.

**Timbuk2**

ADIDriving wrote: »

People not driving as they are supposed to.

I figured that all right :P

I've seen cars use the bus lane when it is active to skip through a queue of traffic, and then try and move back into the queue at the top :rolleyes:

Also, another slightly related question to bus lanes. If there is a left turn up ahead, must you wait until the bus lane marking turns 'dashed' before moving into lane? Some of them don't turn 'dashed' until quite close to the turn, meaning you have to slow down a bit on the main driving lane ('straight-on lane') - from what I saw when driving in Dublin last Monday. I only saw a few junctions though, as I never usually drive in Dublin.

highlydebased

**Timbuk2** wrote: »

I figured that all right :P

I've seen cars use the bus lane when it is active to skip through a queue of traffic, and then try and move back into the queue at the top :rolleyes:

Also, another slightly related question to bus lanes. If there is a left turn up ahead, must you wait until the bus lane marking turns 'dashed' before moving into lane? Some of them don't turn 'dashed' until quite close to the turn, meaning you have to slow down a bit on the main driving lane ('straight-on lane') - from what I saw when driving in Dublin last Monday. I only saw a few junctions though, as I never usually drive in Dublin.

Yes you must wait until the dashed line- not supposed to cross a solid white and all that. That said I see people cross it into bus lanes all of the time.

redz11

I often find that, if I'm driving in a bus lane "out of hours", and if I need to move back into the lane to my right (e.g. if I'm going to turn right), drivers will be very ignorant and do their best not to let you get back in, I think it's because they think that you're "cheating" by driving in the bus lane! :rolleyes:

My interpretation is that you should always try to be driving as far left as possible, and if the bus lane is available to drive in, you should use that as the driving lane and the "car" lane as the overtaking lane. But I think that most drivers are simply unaware of the fact that you can ever use the bus lane!

ADIDriving

**Timbuk2** wrote: »

Also, another slightly related question to bus lanes. If there is a left turn up ahead, must you wait until the bus lane marking turns 'dashed' before moving into lane? Some of them don't turn 'dashed' until quite close to the turn, meaning you have to slow down a bit on the main driving lane ('straight-on lane') - from what I saw when driving in Dublin last Monday. I only saw a few junctions though, as I never usually drive in Dublin.

Technically you should wait for the broken line. Sometimes this is unsafe or impractical: ie, if the distance to the junction is too short to change lanes, slow down and turn. Using a few metres of the bus lane is acceptable in these cases. A certain amount of common sense as accepted in these matters by Gardai and testers. It is however not quantified.

challengemaster

ADIDriving wrote: »

Yes. Most bus lanes are 7am to 7pm monday to saturday. There are other variations. The times are written on the white plate on the bus lane sign. Get someone to help read them as you drive by if needed.
If the bus lane is not active, it becomes the left hand, driving lane. This is therefor, usually the correct lane to drive in. Not many people do this. But it is great if you are trying to get out of a city just after seven. You can pass on the left if the traffic is moving slowly. You should not be passing them if they are driving at a reasonable speed.

Does that not become redundant if everyone is technically in the wrong lane, though? It's like saying if everyone were to drive in the overtaking lane on a motorway, that you couldn't use the left lane... which is kind of daft...

Neon-Circles

Neon-Circles wrote: »

Yes you must wait until the dashed line- not supposed to cross a solid white and all that. That said I see people cross it into bus lanes all of the time.

Gardai at templeogue coming up to the bridge from spawell catch people out doing this. I'm glad too! :mad:

littleredspot

challengemaster wrote: »

Does that not become redundant if everyone is technically in the wrong lane, though? It's like saying if everyone were to drive in the overtaking lane on a motorway, that you couldn't use the left lane... which is kind of daft...

I've often thought that the people that aren't driving in an inactive buslane are technically "driving without due care" or something like that.
I'm not complaining though. If they can't be bothered to read a sign and would rather sit in non moving traffic as I glide by them in the empty buslane, then thats their loss.

challengemaster

littleredspot wrote: »

I've often thought that the people that aren't driving in an inactive buslane are technically "driving without due care" or something like that.
I'm not complaining though. If they can't be bothered to read a sign and would rather sit in non moving traffic as I glide by them in the empty buslane, then thats their loss.

Just yet another result of poor driver education tbh... no understanding of when to do what

Alanstrainor

challengemaster wrote: »

Does that not become redundant if everyone is technically in the wrong lane, though? It's like saying if everyone were to drive in the overtaking lane on a motorway, that you couldn't use the left lane... which is kind of daft...

As daft as it sounds, i hear of people getting pulled over all the time for undertaking in situations where people sit in the overtaking lane. Both are breaking the law, but unfortunately both laws are not equally enforced.

**Timbuk2**

Thanks for the answers.

I've heard, although can't confirm it's truthness, that there has been times where an unmarked garda car would sit in an overtaking lane of the motorway, and would then pull over somebody who overtook it on the left. Sounds a bit underhand if it's true.

I'd imagine both rules aren't equally enforced because it's harder to define 'sitting in the overtaking lane' than 'overtaking on the left'. Overtaking on the left is an event that happens, and once it happens there can be no ambiguity about it (unless traffic is moving slowly, which is a different case). But it's harder to specifically define sitting in the overtaking lane. On the motorway, you could overtake one car, and decide to stay in the overtaking lane in anticipation of overtaking a slow moving vehicle ahead. People who sit in the overtaking lane could argue that they are trying to avoid weaving and are going to overtake ahead.

Just a thought.

Alanstrainor

**Timbuk2** wrote: »

I'd imagine both rules aren't equally enforced because it's harder to define 'sitting in the overtaking lane' than 'overtaking on the left'. Overtaking on the left is an event that happens, and once it happens there can be no ambiguity about it (unless traffic is moving slowly, which is a different case). But it's harder to specifically define sitting in the overtaking lane. On the motorway, you could overtake one car, and decide to stay in the overtaking lane in anticipation of overtaking a slow moving vehicle ahead. People who sit in the overtaking lane could argue that they are trying to avoid weaving and are going to overtake ahead.

Just a thought.

I'd say you're spot on with that one.

And i have heard of that tactic being used by gardai, but again, it's the kind of thing i hear from a friend of a friends sisters aunties dog situation.

challengemaster

**Timbuk2** wrote: »

Thanks for the answers.

I've heard, although can't confirm it's truthness, that there has been times where an unmarked garda car would sit in an overtaking lane of the motorway, and would then pull over somebody who overtook it on the left. Sounds a bit underhand if it's true.

That's tame for gardaí tactics tbh. I've heard of much worse.

Eg.

• Aggressive driving to aggrivate other drivers, then pull them for road rage
• Drive stupidly slow, continually hitting the brakes every couple of metres, basically force a car to overtake, then pull them for crossing a white line
• The worst I've heard though, is an unmarked speeding up joining the motorway on the ramp, then darting across into the overtaking lane infront of someone and brake testing them.

There's some cases where the gardaí deserve to be berated, tbh...

**Timbuk2**

Well they're all pretty severe but I sincerely hope that third one isn't true :eek:

At 120km/h, one's reaction distance is significantly large so doing something like that is just downright stupid. Reaction distance increases significantly as speed increases, so those that like to do 130-140km/h (why, I'll never know) on the motorway will travel a huge distance before they hit the brakes if any hazard is presented - and not all of them can be identified in advance, no matter how well you observe.

ADIDriving

challengemaster wrote: »

Does that not become redundant if everyone is technically in the wrong lane, though? It's like saying if everyone were to drive in the overtaking lane on a motorway, that you couldn't use the left lane... which is kind of daft...

It is more like saying that if everyone on the motorway is driving in the overtaking lane you should not PASS on the left. Yes everyone is driving in the wrong lane. But it is also wrong to pass fast moving traffic on the left, at speed.
You can pass on the left if you are turning left, if they are turning right, if traffic is moving slow. Other 'loopholes' which would allow you to pass would be that the traffic on the right may slow down earlier then you or you can accelerate faster then them when moving off. But at the end of the day, the right lane is the overtaking lane.

12 element

Could you get in bother for crossing a solid white line into or out of a inactive bus lane or does the law only cover a solid white line in the centre of the road?

Alanstrainor

12 element wrote: »

Could you get in bother for crossing a solid white line into or out of a inactive bus lane or does the law only cover a solid white line in the centre of the road?

The solid white lane on a bus lane is not the same as a solid white lane dividing two lanes of traffic. So you can cross it no bother; actually I remember nearly failing my test as a result of that! The tester told me after I passed that he was about to fail me because I wouldn't cross into a bus lane. He actually prompted me during the test to do it!

nomdeboardie

Good discussion. I’ve been wondering about the out-of-hours bus lane issue also, as I don’t remember seeing explicit guidelines anywhere about whether they must be used in preference to the outside lane. I think part of the reason for under use may be that many drivers have a subconscious fear of entering them(!) Think we need a TV campaigns for this (for what that would be worth…). However the reason I often purposefully stay out is to give cyclists more room – in my opinion (as a cyclist and a driver) there is seldom enough space for vehicles to safely pass bikes in the inside/bus lane of most multi-lane roads, so I slow right down when I come across them if I get “trapped” in the inside/bus lane.

nomdeboardie

Alanstrainor wrote: »

The solid white lane on a bus lane is not the same as a solid white lane dividing two lanes of traffic. So you can cross it no bother; actually I remember nearly failing my test as a result of that! The tester told me after I passed that he was about to fail me because I wouldn't cross into a bus lane. He actually prompted me during the test to do it!

I was also wondering about that - can't find a statement about it in the latest "rules of the road"

challengemaster

ADIDriving wrote: »

It is more like saying that if everyone on the motorway is driving in the overtaking lane you should not PASS on the left. Yes everyone is driving in the wrong lane. But it is also wrong to pass fast moving traffic on the left, at speed.
You can pass on the left if you are turning left, if they are turning right, if traffic is moving slow. Other 'loopholes' which would allow you to pass would be that the traffic on the right may slow down earlier then you or you can accelerate faster then them when moving off. But at the end of the day, the right lane is the overtaking lane.

I suppose it's like everything else in ireland, just defies any and all logic

overshoot

iv heard that you can only be done for undertaking if you increase your speed when you approach the car or dart across when you reach him. any truth to that?

Del2005

nomdeboardie wrote: »

Good discussion. I’ve been wondering about the out-of-hours bus lane issue also, as I don’t remember seeing explicit guidelines anywhere about whether they must be used in preference to the outside lane. I think part of the reason for under use may be that many drivers have a subconscious fear of entering them(!) Think we need a TV campaigns for this (for what that would be worth…).

We shouldn't need guidelines or TV ads, it one of our basic driving laws that we drive in the left most lane at all times. The simple fact that the vast majority of our drivers don't know this just goes to show how good of drivers we are.

nomdeboardie wrote: »

However the reason I often purposefully stay out is to give cyclists more room – in my opinion (as a cyclist and a driver) there is seldom enough space for vehicles to safely pass bikes in the inside/bus lane of most multi-lane roads, so I slow right down when I come across them if I get “trapped” in the inside/bus lane. [/FONT]

If you aren't confident of passing cyclists in an out of hours bus lane then how do you manage to pass cyclists on normal roads? You should be driving in the left most lane and react to hazards as you see them and not driving in the wrong lane because you're afraid to react to a simple hazard.

overshoot wrote: »

iv heard that you can only be done for undertaking if you increase your speed when you approach the car or dart across when you reach him. any truth to that?

Nope, any passing on the left hand side of a car other then the exemptions mentioned earlier is illegal.

nomdeboardie

Del2005 wrote: »

If you aren't confident of passing cyclists in an out of hours bus lane then how do you manage to pass cyclists on normal roads? You should be driving in the left most lane and react to hazards as you see them and not driving in the wrong lane because you're afraid to react to a simple hazardl.

If I can move out or change lane I do so, and if not I slow down in proportion to how closely I have to pass. My feelings on this are undoubtedly influenced by how threatened I feel on a bike when passed by vehicles that do neither. When there are numerous bikes on a given stretch of road it makes more sense to stay in the outer lane than try to weave in and out continually.