FF to hold vote of confidence tuesday: secret ballot.

ArtSmart

tuesday so, FFS

lorcan122

I hope they vote No, and someone stands up in that party and says they want to be leader, but i doubt it as they are all headless chickens. The sooner we have an election the better.

sligopark

I'll bet the old guard will leave it to the Ogra puppets to tak echarge and so pass the blame

FreudianSlippers

Say what you want about Cowen, but the man has brass balls to force the party into ousting him kicking and screaming!

proon4

I dont know for sure, but i feel Cowen has an ulterior motive to stay on as Taoiseach....I cant say what but nobody would have a neck like him. The FF party the people of Ireland and im sure his own family want him to go, but for some reason hes holding on. Is there something so serious that if he goes before the finacial bill is passed it will throw the bill into disarray... I think theres a conspiracy somewhere mixed up in all of this., and the people of Ireland will have to pay for it again. Watch what happens

jpfahy

proon4 wrote: »

I dont know for sure, but i feel Cowen has an ulterior motive to stay on as Taoiseach....I cant say what but nobody would have a neck like him. I think theres a conspiracy somewhere mixed up in all of this., and the people of Ireland will have to pay for it again. Watch what happens

Does he not get a higher pension if he lasts til April (3 years as Taoiseach)

proon4

jpfahy wrote: »

Does he not get a higher pension if he lasts til April (3 years as Taoiseach)

Not sure, but I cant believe thats the reason, Because no way can he hold out until April. The election will be done and dusted before April

cancercowboy

Yeah, Cowen wouldn't put a party confidence vote in himself if he didn't think he could win it. If there was going to be any leadership change Micheál Martin would have had to mount a challenge last Thursday, and he chickened out. The implications are numerous.

Micheál Martin's seat is now not going to be guaranteed... if he was party leader Corkonians would have rallied behind him. Now he's gonna have to go to the electorate with and explain why he didn't take Cowen out.

Next it means the country will have to put up with this crowd even longer, driving Fianna Fáil's popularity even further down. This will be a wipe out for Fianna Fáil.

As a Fine Gael supporter this is only good news for the party, inevitably our support will increase. Fianna Fáil might have just helped us get a majority government.

As a citizen this couldn't be worse news. It means our country is going to suffer even longer under Fianna Fáil's ineptitude, cronyism and corruption.

Here's how I see things going: Cowen will not call a date for a General Election, he'll keep stringing the public along. There is a good reason why a date for the general election hasn't been called. The Greens will eventually pull out of Government once and for all. Fianna Fáil will try to rule with a minority government, very little if any legislation will be passed. This government won't leave, they will have to dragged out kicking and screaming. If you wait for Fianna Fáil to do the right theng, you'll be waiting for a very long time. Whenever an election is called, watch out for voter fraud, lost ballot boxes, impropriety, and general illegal behavior.

Cowen won't ask the people of this country for a vote of confidence, by holding a general election, because he already knows the answer.

Liam Byrne

I reckon it's all optics......no-one really wants the FF leadership pre-election because they know they'll get crucified.

And even if they lie to themselves that the unpopularity is because of "necessary decisions", rather than the truth that it's because of ****e decisions and corruption, it's still a dent in their egos and delusion.

So anything that's going on is just to make it look like some people in FF want change.

sligopark

proon4 wrote: »

Not sure, but I cant believe thats the reason, Because no way can he hold out until April. The election will be done and dusted before April

no it won't and yes he can

proon4

sligopark wrote: »

no it won't and yes he can

Well I think this is pointless now that Martin has realised he needs to do some real scavanging to hold on to his seat, and has discovered a trace of a spine.. If it dosent all fall down now then my first reply on this thread looks more and more palatable

sligopark

proon4 wrote: »

Well I think this is pointless now that Martin has realised he needs to do some real scavanging to hold on to his seat

Is M.Martin's seat at risk?

proon4

sligopark wrote: »

Is M.Martin's seat at risk?

M Martins seat is in a very precarious position . But I think theres not a FF td that hasnt started to wear brown underpants/ knickers in case the have an accident when they think about the next election... BTW your from Sligo... Wheres Eamon Scanlon TD hiding ?

kippy

Who gives a fiddling fluck..........

These guys are on the way out, they should have been out long before Christmas yet continue to dominate the media with their internal wrangling and fcuk acting when the country is in the middle of the biggest crisis it has ever been under.

I mean, people in this guys own part dont think he can run the show, yet hes running the country - how wrong is that?

sligopark

Kristopherus wrote: »

Brilliant !!!

I can imagine Dr.Jimmy Devins behind that pig with a needle in his hand:):):)

would love to show you that photo but I am on a warning and it would risk a ban!

later12

proon4 wrote: »

I dont know for sure, but i feel Cowen has an ulterior motive to stay on as Taoiseach

It's a very simple explanation. Cowen's tenure in office, as a Minister for Finance and as Taoiseach, is probably going to be the most negatively judged tenure in the history of the state and in the history of the Fianna Fáil party.

The man has some very patriotic ideals (believe it or not) and comes from a very Republican family with strong links to the Civil War and the politics of fledgling sovereignty. I think, more than anything, he is embarrassed about the potential for how his premiership will be seen by future generations of Irish people, and is somewhat desperate to change the perception. He, like many grossly unpopular leaders, is probably totally detached from reality right now. He is, I would suggest, politically sleepwalking, living in a fantastical dreamworld where he comes back to popularity and saves the day and rewrites Irish political history.

It doesn't have to make sense, it probably doesn't even make sense to him. He is Macbeth seeing Great Birnam Wood come towards Dunsinane. Just don't expect the happy ending. We have neither a Malcolm nor a Macduff to claim the Kingdom.

andrew cross

glorious leader (useless prick) dont leave us in our of need, we the people want you to stay ( f**k off), you did so much for the country,.(sold us to the Germans) with the wise cabinet of ministers (useless gombeens) to turn us around thecorner(cul de sac), to riches again, (beggars of Europe) i believe in you, :eek::eek::eek:

proon4

later10 wrote: »

It's a very simple explanation. Cowen's tenure in office, as a Minister for Finance and as Taoiseach, is probably going to be the most negatively judged tenure in the history of the state and in the history of the Fianna Fáil party.

The man has some very patriotic ideals (believe it or not) and comes from a very Republican family with strong links to the Civil War and the politics of fledgling sovereignty. I think, more than anything, he is embarrassed about the potential for how his premiership will be seen by future generations of Irish people, and is somewhat desperate to change the perception. He, like many grossly unpopular leaders, is probably totally detached from reality right now. He is, I would suggest, politically sleepwalking, living in a fantastical dreamworld where he comes back to popularity and saves the day and rewrites Irish political history.

It doesn't have to make sense, it probably doesn't even make sense to him. He is Macbeth seeing Great Birnam Wood come towards Dunsinane. Just don't expect the happy ending. We have neither a Malcolm nor a Macduff to claim the Kingdom.

Sorry I dont buy into that.... Patriot me ass... He hasnt the slighest ounce of patrioism, if he had he would never have done the things he done. His involvement with Fitzpatrick , Dunne and the rest of the Anglo crooks is proof of that. He got himself up to his neck with the dealings in Anglo and is now trying to dampen the flames that are going to erupt when someone else gets the real truth about what he and others in his party were up to during the so called great days of the celtic tiger.... I think hes hoping that the longer he holds on, the better chance that certain information will go missing. A full investigation should be held into private bank accounts of some of these so called " patriots"...Off shore accounts should be searched for as well... The "scrounger" in Drumcondra is one of them that has a lot to hide, and I'm not talking about his prowess as horse-gambler..... Like I said in my initial post its just a feeling I have that theirs a conspiracy about why he wont walk away

Dempo1

OisinT wrote: »

Say what you want about Cowen, but the man has brass balls to force the party into ousting him kicking and screaming!

Brass neck more like it. It was telling how few ministers were present at his absurd press conference and i get a sense not even he anticipated Micheal Martin having his own press conference later, which incidentally received far more coverage on British channels than RTE or TV3 who seemed to be asleep at the wheel for both news conferences.

Did anyone spot the Mary Coughlins Frock, it looked like a cheap Argos Duvet cover, Jesus wept who dresses this poor unfortunate.

juuge

later10 wrote: »

It's a very simple explanation. Cowen's tenure in office, as a Minister for Finance and as Taoiseach, is probably going to be the most negatively judged tenure in the history of the state and in the history of the Fianna Fáil party.

The man has some very patriotic ideals (believe it or not) and comes from a very Republican family with strong links to the Civil War and the politics of fledgling sovereignty. I think, more than anything, he is embarrassed about the potential for how his premiership will be seen by future generations of Irish people, and is somewhat desperate to change the perception. He, like many grossly unpopular leaders, is probably totally detached from reality right now. He is, I would suggest, politically sleepwalking, living in a fantastical dreamworld where he comes back to popularity and saves the day and rewrites Irish political history.

It doesn't have to make sense, it probably doesn't even make sense to him. He is Macbeth seeing Great Birnam Wood come towards Dunsinane. Just don't expect the happy ending. We have neither a Malcolm nor a Macduff to claim the Kingdom.

+1 - Hit the nail on the head!

sligopark

Dempo1 wrote: »

Did anyone spot the Mary Coughlins Frock, it looked like a cheap Argos Duvet cover, Jesus wept who dresses this poor unfortunate.

sorry the press conference was hastily arranged - it was a hotel curtain sown up by a polish lass licking the floors clean in the foyer

juuge

Dempo1 wrote: »

Did anyone spot the Mary Coughlins Frock, it looked like a cheap Argos Duvet cover, Jesus wept who dresses this poor unfortunate.

Judging by the smirk on her face she was probably 'goin' commando'!

goat2

proon4 wrote: »

Well I think this is pointless now that Martin has realised he needs to do some real scavanging to hold on to his seat, and has discovered a trace of a spine.. If it dosent all fall down now then my first reply on this thread looks more and more palatable

mr martain has been in government all this time while the country was spiralling into more debt and did nothing about it, so i dont see why he is shouting now about something that is of least importance to us, hope cowen hangs on in there to the election, and do something about helping the citizens of this country, rather than seeing who should be leader, at least they have jobs and too highly paid into the bargain for the mess they have us in

sligopark

later10 wrote: »

It's a very simple explanation. Cowen's tenure in office, as a Minister for Finance and as Taoiseach, is probably going to be the most negatively judged tenure in the history of the state and in the history of the Fianna Fáil party.

The man has some very patriotic ideals (believe it or not) and comes from a very Republican family with strong links to the Civil War and the politics of fledgling sovereignty. I think, more than anything, he is embarrassed about the potential for how his premiership will be seen by future generations of Irish people, and is somewhat desperate to change the perception. He, like many grossly unpopular leaders, is probably totally detached from reality right now. He is, I would suggest, politically sleepwalking, living in a fantastical dreamworld where he comes back to popularity and saves the day and rewrites Irish political history.

In fairness I would like to believe this of him.

proon4

sligopark wrote: »

In fairness I would like to believe this of him.

But honestly you cant ?...

Flimbos

Just listening to Brian Cowen being interviewed on The Week in Politics. A few soundbytes caught my attention:

"This party in government with colleagues have done the business for this country at a most trying time in its history."

"We're in the business at the moment, of having to borrow 18 billion euro..."

"We're not in the business of getting into a media circus..."

Why does he keep repeating the word "business". It's an insult to people who do run actual businesses.

If the government were an actual business, they would have gone bust a long time ago.

sligopark

Flimbos wrote: »

If the government were an actual business, they would have gone bust a long time ago.

its not only the government - ff is in huge debt itself - new candidates are been asked for anything up to €40K of their own funding - this crew have not only made FF unelectable they have created a huge debt for the party

ilovesleep

Why tuesday? Do they have a bank holiday every monday?

sligopark

ilovesleep wrote: »

Why tuesday? Do they have a bank holiday every monday?

yes - don't you remember why foul mouthed Mary spoke for the taoiseach on a thusday too?

In case you don't know it was because Biffo went on the piss mid week on a Wednesday and slept in on a thursday morning away from home - right now he is on one with the Lenihans, Martin and badly dressed underling, laughing over emminent times to come,

JP Liz V1

Billy Kelleher voting against Brian now also

hallelujajordan

Liam Byrne wrote: »

I reckon it's all optics......no-one really wants the FF leadership pre-election because they know they'll get crucified.

And even if they lie to themselves that the unpopularity is because of "necessary decisions", rather than the truth that it's because of ****e decisions and corruption, it's still a dent in their egos and delusion.

So anything that's going on is just to make it look like some people in FF want change.

But some people in FF really do want change . . .

Dempo1 wrote: »

Brass neck more like it. It was telling how few ministers were present at his absurd press conference and i get a sense not even he anticipated Micheal Martin having his own press conference later, which incidentally received far more coverage on British channels than RTE or TV3 who seemed to be asleep at the wheel for both news conferences.

Did anyone spot the Mary Coughlins Frock, it looked like a cheap Argos Duvet cover, Jesus wept who dresses this poor unfortunate.

I think he did anticipate Martin's press conference. . . at the time Cowen spoke, Martin had already offered his resignation and Cowen had declined it. . Cowen pre-empted Martin by proposing a vote of confidence in himself ! It is likely that Martin had the 18 signatures and would have tabled a no-confidence motion.

SB-08

How many FF TD's do we know are likely to vote against Cowen?

Seems the following are likely - any more known?

Micheal Martin
Mary Hanafin
Michael Kennedy
Mattie McGrath
Peter Power
John McGuinness
Conor Lenihan
Tom Kitt
Ned O Keeffe
Jimmy Devins
Noel Ahern.
Noel O'Flynn
Timmy Dooley
Willie O'Dea
Mammy O'Rourke
Michael Moynihan

And considering it is a secret ballot - the likes of Bertie himsef, Dermot Ahern and Noel Dempsey may vote against Cowen too.

Devilman40k

SB-08 wrote: »

How many FF TD's do we know are likely to vote against Cowen?

Seems the following are likely - any more known?

Micheal Martin
Mary Hanafin
Michael Kennedy
Mattie McGrath
Peter Power
John McGuinness
Conor Lenihan
Tom Kitt
Ned O Keeffe
Jimmy Devins
Noel Ahern.
Noel O'Flynn
Timmy Dooley
Willie O'Dea
Mammy O'Rourke
Michael Moynihan

And considering it is a secret ballot - the likes of Bertie himsef, Dermot Ahern and Noel Dempsey may vote against Cowen too.

Add Billy Kelleher to that list, he has come out publically in support of Martin

FreudianSlippers

It does seem to be a fairly small list. From the radio this morning the pro-Cowen side seem to be not worried at all.

godtabh

sligopark wrote: »

its not only the government - ff is in huge debt itself - new candidates are been asked for anything up to €40K of their own funding - this crew have not only made FF unelectable they have created a huge debt for the party

How much is the party in debt?

I wonder is there any one here who they owe money too? I'm sure we could do a whip around for a hight court winding up order

DoesNotCompute

Looks like Willie O'Dea has thrown in his 2c:

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/odea-withdraws-support-from-cowen-489667.html

gandalf

DoesNotCompute wrote: »

Looks like Willie O'Dea has thrown in his 2c:

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/odea-withdraws-support-from-cowen-489667.html

Not really a surprise that. He is still smarting from losing his Ministry. Good to see some senior members supporting Martin. It splits FF more which is a good thing.

SB-08

According to a poster on P.ie, Hanafin will be appearing on 'The Frontline' tonight. She has no choice but to announce she is voting against Cowen - the dogs in the street know she has no confidence in him so if she claims she does she is essentially asking to lose her seat. Saying she thinks Cowen should go gives her a far better chance at beating Andrews for the one FF seat up for grabs.

Min

MJ Nolan from Carlow/Kilkenny wants Brian to go too.

hallelujajordan

SB-08 wrote: »

According to a poster on P.ie, Hanafin will be appearing on 'The Frontline' tonight. She has no choice but to announce she is voting against Cowen - the dogs in the street know she has no confidence in him so if she claims she does she is essentially asking to lose her seat. Saying she thinks Cowen should go gives her a far better chance at beating Andrews for the one FF seat up for grabs.

Hanafin is confirmed for the Frontline, as is Barry Andrews so I am hoping both will be asked to pin their respective colours to the mast

Jaysoose

The depressing thing about this whole sorry mess is these guys are still playing petty politics amongst themselves as if there are not bigger issues to sort out.

They all have the courage of their convictions to vote against cowen but sit on their hands for years when the country was being sold down the river with bad policy after bad policy.

Its a bad joke that this is whats dominating our so called 'leaders' schedules at present when the country is broken. But then it just reinforces what we all know...they care about themselves first...party second..country a distant third.

later12

SB-08 wrote: »

How many FF TD's do we know are likely to vote against Cowen?

Seems the following are likely - any more known?

Micheal Martin
Mary Hanafin
Michael Kennedy
Mattie McGrath
Peter Power
John McGuinness
Conor Lenihan
Tom Kitt
Ned O Keeffe
Jimmy Devins
Noel Ahern.
Noel O'Flynn
Timmy Dooley
Willie O'Dea
Mammy O'Rourke
Michael Moynihan

Mary O'Rourke has alrady said that she will support Brian Cowen
http://www.examiner.ie/breakingnews/ireland/mary-orourke-declares-support-for-brian-cowen-489749.html

So she is another deputy who can be scratched off that list.

Balmed Out

Cant understand how fianna fail td's arent all jumping at the opportunity to ditch Cowen.
As is, I would presume we will have a fine gael & labour govenrment with a massive majority. Fine fail will be part of the opposition, if they want to be the bulk of that opposition they need to give their regular voters an excuse to vote for them. I think thats all a lot of the regular dependable fine fail supporter needs, and that excuse would need to be a new leader with a 'weve changed' message.

joey54

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0118/politics.html


Sounds like they could be another while yet. While I hope they'll vote no confidence in Cowen I don't think this will happen.

I suppose either way FF will be slaughtered come the general election.

Balmed Out

joey54 wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0118/politics.html


Sounds like they could be another while yet. While I hope they'll vote no confidence in Cowen I don't think this will happen.

I suppose either way FF will be slaughtered come the general election.

You suppose right!
I reckon theyd fair better with a new leader though. If completely decimated they may add to less len the combined greens, sinn fein and independents

kippy

Balmed Out wrote: »

Cant understand how fianna fail td's arent all jumping at the opportunity to ditch Cowen.
As is, I would presume we will have a fine gael & labour govenrment with a massive majority. Fine fail will be part of the opposition, if they want to be the bulk of that opposition they need to give their regular voters an excuse to vote for them. I think thats all a lot of the regular dependable fine fail supporter needs, and that excuse would need to be a new leader with a 'weve changed' message.

Cant understand?
Going on past form, FF hardcore voters will vote FF no matter who is there. It doesnt appear that anyone outside of FF hardcore voters will vote FF no mater who is in the hot seat.
I'd say the Lenihan supporters are happy enough to vote for Cowan this time, cowan will probably step down after the election (why wouldnt he, they will get trounced, no need for the new guy to start on the wrong side of a belting)
When he steps aside, Lenihan will get his own supporters votes and most likely the cowan supporters votes for backing cowan this time around.
Lenihan gets to start with a clean slate (well, relatively speaking)
Whatever government gets in will be out withing 24 months after failing miserably to do what they said they would and end up cutting as much as FF.
Queue new election, FF back in the frame again.
We Irish have very very short term memories..........

Whatever is happening right now is for the benefit of the FF party in the medium to long term, short term they will be anihilated. The benefit to the country of this charade is negligible.

It has sickened me how much I have heard cowan on the wireless/tv in the past 48 hours, where the **** was he when the country was getting shafted.