Unsightly Markings on Oak Wood

motherriley

Need some help with a purchase of Oak bookshelf which was not cheap from M&S 4 weeks ago. After the unit arrived I found some unsightly marks on the front panel top panel and each time I pass the unit it looks like it is dirty marks.

I contacted M&S and told them about the marking and after a stressful discussion with a manager of the store they said that they would send out one of their assessor to look at it. When the assessor arrived he said that that I was lucky to have these markings as if I went into an antique shop I would pay a premium for a piece of furniture with markings on it like I had on the furniture that I just purchase new from M&S.

After I advised the assessor that the item was new and not over a 100 years old to make it antique he then took some photos of it and did a report saying that the unit was not flawed. The marking on the unit look like a blobs of paint and stand out. Are these national marking for Oak furniture.

Is there anything I can do about this purchase.

Found this on website about their furniture ‘poor quality oak veneer lifting on all Sonoma items M&S’

http://www.reviewcentre.com/reviews92688.html

Condatis

You mention an oak bookcase and you also refer to veneer. From that I take it that the bookcase is some other material with a veneer of oak.

When a veneer is used the base material is usually MDF, plywood or chipboard.

To deal with the "marks" first – wood, being a natural material will, like leather, always have marks, shadings and tones which may look like stains. This occurs during the natural growth cycle, if you are not happy with that buy plastic.

However if the marks are not part of the material and are from a foreign body they and actually are stains, then you do have a ground for complaint.

While an oak veneer may look well, unless it is a very good piece it does not last well. Modern homes with central heating are not kind to veneer. After a while the veneer will tend to rise from the base material and will often bubble. While this can be fixed with glue it is difficult for the amateur to restore it to the original condition.

I f you want real wood you could go for solid pine, which would be far cheaper than oak. You can varnish it yourself which will make it easier to keep clean. It will look well and it is the genuine article and unless you expose it to too much heat or damp it will outlast you – and your children. Not only that you can buy product from an Irish forest – the M & S product probably comes from Malaysia.

motherriley

Thanks for reply, it is actually oak not veneer, I have checked it out and it appear to have come from America, I took the word veneer from the link as others customers that were very unsatisfied with M&S that they had purchased it was the same item and referred it a veneer.

The markings are very visable and look like it is dirty and I feel the need to wash it off but of couse I cannot as the assessor told me it is part of the wood. I would not mind it so much if these marks were at the back of the shelf and not so easily seen. Do oak furniture have make like this on its furniture there were not marks on the furniture when I look at it in the store. :mad:

Alun

Could you upload a photograph maybe? Oak, depending on how it is cut (quartersawn), often displays quite prominent so-called medullary rays. These are perfectly natural and indeed prized as a natural feature of the wood.

See this image for an example ... http://www.tauntonoak.co.uk/photos/medullary_ray_grain.jpg or Google 'oak medullary rays' and you'll see plenty of other examples.

Some pieces have more marked markings than others .. wood is a natural material, and you can't guarantee that one piece (the one you saw in the shop) will be identical to the one you got, that's the nature of the beast I'm afraid. Like the poster above said, if you don't like that natural variation then buy plastic or mdf, or another wood that has less character, your choice.

mav79

Is there any chance of a picture of the marks? As solid oak is a natural material variations of colour and knots are normal.

motherriley

Thanks again for reply, if the markings were like the ones in the photo below I would not mind. I will take a photo later this evening and hope I will be able to post it. :rolleyes:

D.Craftsman

What is the name of the book case you bought?Do you know what it is finished in? Is there one in the store from which you bought it? Was it ordered or a floor model? A photo would be a big help.

motherriley

D.Craftsman wrote: »

What is the name of the book case you bought?Do you know what it is finished in? Is there one in the store from which you bought it? Was it ordered or a floor model? A photo would be a big help.

It was order in store but from the store catalogue. Hope the photo opens as I am not used to uploading photos

Will try and upload it later as it did not open for me.

motherriley

Try again :eek:

http://i1189.photobucket.com/albums/z427/Alun1001/MS1-2.jpg

D.Craftsman

motherriley wrote: »

Try again :eek:

http://i1189.photobucket.com/albums/z427/Alun1001/MS1-2.jpg

Sorry but the picture is not good.

motherriley

Best I could do, I went into close to pickup marks on wood the marks you see are the ones on my book case that are visible.

I will try and see if I can post some more later today.

D.Craftsman

motherriley wrote: »

Best I could do, I went into close to pickup marks on wood the marks you see are the ones on my book case that are visible.

I will try and see if I can post some more later today.

Try taking in a slightly bigger section.Then one close up.It does look like a natural grain feature found in oak, sorry.I could be wrong a better picture will help.Is it a different colour too?

motherriley

D.Craftsman wrote: »

Try taking in a slightly bigger section.Then one close up.It does look like a natural grain feature found in oak, sorry.I could be wrong a better picture will help.Is it a different colour too?

Yes it is a different colour and I tried to another photo hopefully it will come out.

http://i1189.photobucket.com/albums/z427/Alun1001/7.jpg

galwaydude18

From what i can make it looks like a natural mark in the oak and not anything related to the finish applied but the picture is not very clear

1chippy

motherriley wrote: »

Yes it is a different colour and I tried to another photo hopefully it will come out.

http://i1189.photobucket.com/albums/z427/Alun1001/7.jpg

had a look and from what i can see it looks normal for oak. You will get these variations in oak.

chuchyface

I have solid oak furniture and it doesn't have marks like that. Do they look like really dark blotches in reality ? they certainly don't look right to me and I wouldn't be happy with it and would definitely complain.

motherriley

thanks for reply, M&S assessor have said that they are not knots, but did not say what they are does anyone what other kind of

These marks looks unsightly and when I saw the furniture in store it was free of any marks knots free, but when it was delivered it was covered in unsightly mark knots down one side the other side free of any kind of knots, also these other marks on the front which they have not given a name to what they are and it appears that they do not know what they are.....Going back to store to see if they can send me one free of marks just like what they have on show.:(

chuchyface

It seems that if you spill water on oak before it is sealed it can cause some kind of reaction that can leave unsightly marks, Google "tannin marks in oak" and see if they are a possibility.

D.Craftsman

motherriley wrote: »

thanks for reply, M&S assessor have said that they are not knots, but did not say what they are does anyone what other kind of

These marks looks unsightly and when I saw the furniture in store it was free of any marks knots free, but when it was delivered it was covered in unsightly mark knots down one side the other side free of any kind of knots, also these other marks on the front which they have not given a name to what they are and it appears that they do not know what they are.....Going back to store to see if they can send me one free of marks just like what they have on show.:(

Sorry your pic is still not clear enough.Solid Oak does has a characteristic hard grain feature in it.Being a natural product each board, not to mention tree, is different.I have to say there would be little i could do to promise a customer a particular grain pattern in a piece.I would how ever select the cleanest pieces for the more visible areas.I suppose it is a bit of a judgement call as it is not a defect.The bottom line is that you as a customer are not happy with the piece supplied.If you paid by credit card try complaining to the card company to support your claim.Ask to speak with the department head of the store or even higher up.The loudest squeak gets the oil.

motherriley

D.Craftsman wrote: »

Sorry your pic is still not clear enough.Solid Oak does has a characteristic hard grain feature in it.Being a natural product each board, not to mention tree, is different.I have to say there would be little i could do to promise a customer a particular grain pattern in a piece.I would how ever select the cleanest pieces for the more visible areas.I suppose it is a bit of a judgement call as it is not a defect.The bottom line is that you as a customer are not happy with the piece supplied.If you paid by credit card try complaining to the card company to support your claim.Ask to speak with the department head of the store or even higher up.The loudest squeak gets the oil.

The marks are not a grain it looks like a blob of paint but it is not paint. Regarding the credit card it was one of their credit cards that I used to make the purchase. I did not get time to go into the store today but will do so very soon. Thanks for all your kind advice, I will try and post another photo soon.

motherriley

Been in contact with M&S and they say that it is natural wood andnothing can do.

The furniture is veneered and they confirmed this on their website, it appears that they have just stuck off cuts of veneer that does not match on front parts of the furniture and looks dreadful. The seams are visible and not stick down properly. Therefore these items of furniture are substandard (not fit for purpose) their furniture are very expensive.

In M&S stores they have a flawless items on display but when a customer purchase one of the flawless pieces of furniture it turns out that the veneer is substandard.


M&S tells customer that they employ their own independent people to do a report on their furniture when customers are dissatisfied with one of their purchases, however, how can these people be independent when M&S is paying them.

I know I am going to have a struggle in getting anything done about my very bad purchase with them.:mad:

motherriley

M&S will not accept that there furniture is crap, the oak wood is now cracking and their tech says it is just that the grain has risen, what is he talking about the are cracks in the wood and lots of them.

Has anyone heard of this happening before in Oak wood it looks like there is a peel on top of it and it has cracked. What could be causing this. Not only has it got dreadful marks on it but now it is cracking. :mad:

This is what I though I was getting instead it has marks on it and now it cracking......

http://www.marksandspencer.com/Sonoma-Light-Bookcase/dp/B0031AMTJ6?ie=UTF8&ref=sr_1_1&nodeId=43693030&sr=1-1&qid=1299691028&pf_rd_r=1CVMRXXSMJ1J5RGM88VE&pf_rd_m=A2BO0OYVBKIQJM&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_i=43693030&pf_rd_p=215570647&pf_rd_s=related-items-3

chuchyface

Sounds like your only option is to file a claim against them in the small claims court. It is very easy to do and costs very little you can download a form here http://www.courts.ie/Courts.ie/Library3.nsf/pagecurrent/224D3F40A61421D280256DA6002EB56B?opendocument&l=en or file a claim online here https://smallclaims.courts.ie/esmallclaims/claim/Main?page=home&Language=English. Most of these big companies will settle with you very quickly as they don't want to have to go to court. I have done it a couple of times, once for a dodgy cooker and once for a dodgy TV, I won both and they refunded me my money.

D.Craftsman

Hi Motherriley,I thought this might happen.Sorry.I had a look at the picture link you sent.Let me say again woood can split, crack or move.It is a natural living material.Any good manufacturer will tell you this buy would also stand over a newly built piece.
On which part of the bookcase is the cracking?Is it the shelf above the doors? In the picture you can clearly see end grain showing.This to me indicates the shelf is not made from solid oak but manufactured board lipped with solid.This in its self is not a problem, it can however be a cause of a problem.Veneer can lift.It is more prone to lift if bonded onto solid wood.Any movement of the solid timber could effect the veneer.
My advice would be to get your time line of events written down.Take some GOOD close up pictures of the damaged area.Also some general shots of the bookcase to give a clear image of the bookcase.Check the M&S website for info on how well they treat customers and returns policy.Write a fully detailed letter with names, dates etc.Make two copies.Register your claim with the small claims court and include a copy with the photos in the letters.Keep copies of the photos for yourself too.Then register the letters and send them to the store director, not customer service, in both Dublin and U.K.In short, be a pain.You tried to be reasonable now get angry.
Good luck.

motherriley

Many thanks for your kind help, I have been in contact with them and and sent photos as well, they said the marks on the wood is soiled oak and the cuts on that has appeared on the units are just raised grains. These custs have sharps edges and can actually cuts fingers they are all over the unit.

They will give me a full refund if I pay £100 for them to collect the units.:mad::mad:
Will get some legal advice on this, IK feel that they should be paying me for my time that I have spent on this with them.

I will sue them.....:(

D.Craftsman

Don't back down now.Refuse to pay and send them the letter to refuse their offer for you to pay for their problem.Written letters get better responses.Restate your plan to go to court and quote the court ref if you have one.