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Two arguments for the existence of a deity that once sounded plausible to me
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16-01-2011 12:57am#11. A woman, whose name escapes me at the moment, wrote a book saying
that most atheists are rejecting a fundamentalist conception of God;
there is no tangible evidence for this god, and so He is rejected. But
what about those moments when the sheer overwhelming rush of majestic
subjective experience overcomes you, such as while listening to a
beautiful piece of composition. You cannot reach out and touch that
thing, you cannot neatly delineate it into logical components, and no
one can prove that it exists, but it does, and the only way you know
this is that you feel it, you feel it undeniably right in the
core of your being, ineffable, powerful, fragile, yet real. Same with
a higher intelligence; you cannot reach out and touch it and dissect
it with the cold, blunt callipers of science – which are, of course,
invaluable in deriving truths about how physical things work, but
cannot delve into the more philosophical and meaning-based realm of
theology, the "why" questions – and so He is rejected.
2. Evolution versus God is a false dichotomy. Believing in evolution
doesn't mean that you must give up a belief in God. In fact, just the
opposite: the nucleotide sequences of DNA are the language of God. You
can look under a microscope at the billions of DNA base pairs
elegantly connected within billions of beautiful double helices
operating in a symphonic harmony of unimaginable complexity. And the
blueprint for all of this is embedded in a single living cell.
Trillions of these cells come together to generate life, to generate
creatures capable of morality, poetry, literature, love, compassion,
music, and science. We exist in a universe tweaked with physical laws
that are perfect for the flourishing of life. God breathes life
through the particles, through the molecules, through the cells. He is
everywhere, you just have to open your eyes to see Him.
Maybe later I'll explain why those arguments are bollocks. For now,
the essential point is this: this stuff, and other stuff like it, is
only a superficial layer of faith wrapped around a deeper core of
belief: a throbbing ball of reality-distortion that deflects whatever argument,
facts, and reason you throw at it.
The faith monster devours reason in its greedy maws
and spits out an indigested, mutated perversion of it.
Theists - though normal in most ways, and cool, intelligent people for
the most part -have a gnarled, selective, fractured sense of reality,
as any probing discussion with them will show. Facts that jar with
their worldview are siphoned off to the sewers where cognitive
dissonance gets dumped. Facts like the inherent cruelty of nature,
horrific suffering of innocent people, the lack of any karmic balance
in the world, deformed babies born with natural pathogens that ravage
and destroy them, the incoherency of the notion of a soul when you
stop to think about it.
That's true, but it's not the full story. There is no shortage of
retarded creationists (tautology?) out there, but many of them are
reasonably intelligent types. Their lack of general intelligence is
nowhere near commensurate with the stupidity of their beliefs.
The perfect size and shape to shove up your ass
Faith is mostly emotional, and so engaging theists and creationists in
debate at the level of reason is largely a waste of time. It's a
mistake to think we're born as blank slates upon which religious
indoctrination is jaggedly scrawled, and, with reason and discussion,
we can overwrite the garbage.
People come into the world with certain biases (from the four Fs -
fleeing, fighting, feeding, and ...reproduction - to more complex
propensities, like "meta-cognition", a theory in your mind of other people's minds).
As cognitive anthropologists such as Scott Atran,
amongst others, have argued, the human mind evolved certain mechanisms
– cognitive modules – that evolved for disparate reasons and combine
to form structures perfect for religion to parasite upon (bear with
me); for example, cognitions for discerning agency ("I do this because
it's my choice, I have reasons for my action"), which misfire and
cause people to misattribute agency to things that mimic the effects
of natural agents (karma punishes a rapist by making a tree branch
decapitate him one day) – leading to notions of souls, karmic
retribution, everything-happens-for-a-reason and other specious
nonsense that underpin the religious conception of the universe.
Combine that with indoctrination, and most minds are hopelessly
lost, hopelessly disconnected from reality, never to be brought back.
(There are some exceptions, like Matt Dilahunty, who was a fundamentalist
Christian for about 10 years before snapping out of the trance.
He has loads of videos on youtube, they're worth checking out.)
Many theists proudly portray the immurement of their faith from reason
as a virtue, when it's really nothing of the sort. It takes a strong
mind to exercise critical thinking in the face of comforting and
easy-to-digest religious ideas, and it takes balls to let the facts
take you wherever they will regardless of how worthless or scared or
upset or tiny they make you feel.
"My faith is strong" the theist proudly declares, unknowingly
advertising his weakness. The ability to cling to comforting delusions
in the face of harsh facts is not a virtue. Creationists are a good
example of this intellectual dishonesty – pushing an agenda,
distorting reality to fit their pre-conceived unscientific fantasies.
Corner them with facts and they will strike out, like a stuck pig,
and - lying, evasive little shitsacks they are -
they will ignore anything and everything that contradicts their beliefs.
Contrary to creationists' wishful thinking, evolutionary biologists
are not pushing a Western hegemonic agenda of lies. They simply deal
in facts. And if the facts change, so too will the theory. If a
scientist managed to show that creationism was true and
macro-evolution was false, he would be catapulted to extraordinary
fame and fortune. On a smaller scale, a scientist who found a
legitimate flaw in an evolutionary hypothesis would be applauded and
supported, not silenced.
Evolutionary biologists have no desire to cling to and perpetuate
incorrect ideas - unlike creationists, who have a deep emotional
investment in doing so.
It's sad, because we need as many unpoisoned sharp minds
to learn evolution as we can get. Pathogens are rapidly evolving, much
faster than our defences can evolve to deal with them. We need people
to learn real science and not junk science. It's sad to think how many
minds we may have lost to the snare of religious indoctrination.5
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MonkeyBalls wrote: »[...] just a simple question that caused them distress. They closed the thread.
Now, now, no discussing how other forum mods moderate their forum!
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Point 5 of the Charter... haven't you read it?MonkeyBalls wrote: »@robindch: Is that a rule here? Fair enough, I won't criticise.
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Fanny Cradock wrote: »And a fine rule it is too!
Fanny........... <MOD SNIP>
MOD NOTE
Seriously? The charter provides RULES not GUIDELINES.
Next time earns you a break.
Dades0 -
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