Badly damaged car bought 18 months ago - have i any come back

apelstrudel

Hi

My sister bought a car from a back street garage 18 months ago. She it recently serviced by another garage 2 months ago and the mechanic spotted that it was badly damaged in the rear. We did a check and it was imported in from the north with damage. We contacted the garage and he is claiming that he knew nothing about the damage.

Have we any case to sue him?

Atlantic Dawn

What category damage was it when it came from the north?

It's possible if it was B category and fixed properly there's no issue with it from a safety point of view, however when selling it your likely to get less.
I think the legal stance is if you asked was it crashed and they said no you have a comeback, otherwise once it's roadworthy at time of sale there may not be much you can do.

Henry Ford III

Too late I reckon. As always you should have checked it out fully when it was bought.

garhjw

you need to check if it was written off and if so which category as someone already suggested. it could have been illegal for them to sell the car if it is unsafe

kincaid

to be honest 18 months have now passed which makes it alot harder to do anything about it...

Nonoperational

What's stopping him saying you did the damage in the last 18 months? Too long has passed to proove anything in my opinion.

Absurdum

apelstrudel wrote: »

Hi

My sister bought a car from a back street garage 18 months ago. She it recently serviced by another garage 2 months ago and the mechanic spotted that it was badly damaged in the rear. We did a check and it was imported in from the north with damage. We contacted the garage and he is claiming that he knew nothing about the damage.

Have we any case to sue him?

gpf101 wrote: »

What's stopping him saying you did the damage in the last 18 months? Too long has passed to proove anything in my opinion.

If a mechanic spotted it during a service, imo it is reasonable to assume that the dealer should have spotted it too before selling it. That's also assuming that he didn't know that it was already damaged.

I have no idea where this leaves you from a legal point of view though, best to speak with a solicitor.

langdang

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

What category damage was it when it came from the north?

It's possible if it was B category and fixed properly there's no issue with it from a safety point of view, however when selling it your likely to get less.

Cat A and B are never to be returned to the road AFAIK. C or D is ok with D being the lightest damage

Quick google returns this from autocheck.co.uk
Category A A vehicle which should have been totally crushed, including all its spare parts.
Category B A vehicle from which spare parts may be salvaged, but the bodyshell should have been crushed and the car should never return to the road.
Category C An extensively damaged vehicle which the insurer has decided not to repair, but which could be repaired and returned to the road.
Category D A damaged vehicle which the insurer has decided not to repair, but which could be repaired and returned to the road.
Category F A vehicle damaged by fire, which the insurer has decided not to repair.

If there was an insurance claim on this vehicle that resulted in it being written off as a result of the accident it should have showed up on a proper history check before purchase. Also possible that it was just repaired on the QT or the damage was not sufficient to write it off at the time.

Mr.Boots

What type of car is it?
Whats the current value of the car?
What did she pay for it?

MarkoC

gpf101 wrote: »

What's stopping him saying you did the damage in the last 18 months? Too long has passed to proove anything in my opinion.

Exactly my thoughts ...

mickdw

If you can show that the car was a CAT A or B write off in the north, you would have a case. If not, forget about it.

mathepac

langdang wrote: »

Cat A and B are never to be returned to the road AFAIK. C or D is ok with D being the lightest damage

Quick google returns this from autocheck.co.uk ...

Do you know if these categories apply to cars sold / repaired / insured / driven in Ireland?

mickdw wrote: »

If you can show that the car was a CAT A or B write off in the north, you would have a case. If not, forget about it.

I don't believe it's insurance damage classification in the UK has any bearing on its sale or road-worthiness in this country. Besides, as someone has pointed out already, unfortunately too much time has elapsed since the original sale.

cadaliac

mathepac wrote: »

Do you know if these categories apply to cars sold / repaired / insured / driven in Ireland?
I don't believe it's insurance damage classification in the UK has any bearing on its sale or road-worthiness in this country. Besides, as someone has pointed out already, unfortunately too much time has elapsed since the original sale.

No, bollix to that I say.
The seller sold a crashed car to the punter. This is only valid if proven of course. It doesn't matter what country they iomported the car from, if it was a wright off by an insurance company, it will be illigall to re-sell.
But agreed on the time lapse - you might not get anywhere if the sale of goods is over 12 months.

Atlantic Dawn

langdang wrote: »

Cat A and B are never to be returned to the road AFAIK. C or D is ok with D being the lightest damage

Yes I mixed them up, I meant the other way around, thanks

apelstrudel

The Car was a Honda civic. It looks like the whole back was welded and probably the back is from another car! She paid 8k for it and the garage owner had the car transfered into his name.

The garage/seller does'nt want to know.

-Chris-

apelstrudel wrote: »

Hi

My sister bought a car from a back street garage 18 months ago. She it recently serviced by another garage 2 months ago and the mechanic spotted that it was badly damaged in the rear. We did a check and it was imported in from the north with damage. We contacted the garage and he is claiming that he knew nothing about the damage.

Have we any case to sue him?

Did she ask before buying it if it had any accident history? If so, what did he say?

If she never asked and he never mentioned it, and in her assessment of it before purchasing it she didn't spot it, you're probably on thin ice.
If she didn't do any background checks or get anyone knowledgeable to assess it on her behalf, again she bears some responsibility imho.

Also as the other lads have said, the passing of time hasn't done you any favours either.

I don't think you have a case to sue, and I'd be more concerned that you get the car assessed properly so you're confident that it's roadworthy and safe for your own peace of mind.

kincaid

hi most insurance companies when you go to insure your car will tell you the full history check on it...

i purchased 2 cars in the north one in feb and july 2010 and went to insure the with FBD and was told they both cars were clear of finance and were not recorded ( i didnt ask for this info)..

anyway as stated category C and D can be put back on the road and in some cases have seen category B too but only with an engineers report..

The guy cant blame you for the rear damage as if you contact the insurer who wrote off the Car they can give you the date of when it happened and the tell you why they wrote it off and in your case rear damage...
you may have hope if its category A OR B ,
Very little i think if D or C as in this case then i think you have left it too long

mickdw

The garage owner had it transfered into his own name. An underhand private sale so I suppose! He is guilty as sin IMO

DickyC

apelstrudel wrote: »

Hi

My sister bought a car from a back street garage 18 months ago. She it recently serviced by another garage 2 months ago and the mechanic spotted that it was badly damaged in the rear. We did a check and it was imported in from the north with damage. We contacted the garage and he is claiming that he knew nothing about the damage.

Have we any case to sue him?

So you paid to get a check done after you were told it was damaged, Where were you told that it was imported "with damage". Never heard this one before. Normally the V.R.T. is just paid on the O.M.S.P. of the car, whether damaged or not.

No mention of a N.C.T. in all the replys from the experts . Has the car a current certificate? If so is that not the standard of roadworthiness we have here in the republic. Good luck going back eighteen months later looking for a refund.

Motorcheck

Did you buy the car from a main dealer? Was it advertised online? If you could access the previous ad and demonstrate that it was not properly described in the ad you might have a case.

As said above - the category of write off would be useful to determine. From what your mechanic says it sounds like a 'cut and shut'. I.e. two halves of different cars welded together. Have you tried matching VIN numbers from the front and back of the car?

Selling a car that has been 'Cut and Shut' is a very serious problem for the dealer concerned and I'm sure he will want to make good on your claim without the negative publicity.

lifer_sean

@OP, this might be a problem, and it might not. What matters here is the insurance category, the extent of the damage, and how it was repaired. The use of secondhand parts to repair the car is not in itself a problem, nor is the fact the seller had it registered in his/her own name.

If the car was Cat A or B then it should not be back on the road, end of story. In these cases the insurance company typically retains the car's log book to prevent car going back on road, but there are ways around this. If the car was a "cut and shut" then it should not be back on the road either. In both these cases I'd suggest buyer should look for their money back, possibly with a deduction for 18 months use. I can't see a judge finding in favour of the seller under such circumstances.

However, take another possible scenario. Guy buys Cat C or D car in UK, gets secondhand rear panel, boot door, back bumper and tail-lamps in breakers yard. Parts fitted professionally (remember welding would be required anyway even for new rear panel). Guy registers it in his own name and uses it for a month or two before selling. No reason why such a car wouldn't be fine. The seller should of course tell buyer the history, and this history should be reflected in the price.

@motorcheck, I agree a "cut and shut" is very bad news. Re VIN numbers, it is extremly rare to find a VIN number on the rear half of a car. The only examples that come to mind are some Peugeots and the paper sticker on boot floor of VAG car. Also a guy doing a "cut and shut" would have to be pretty stupid to leave a mismatching VIN number behind.

-Chris-

Give one of these guys a call, their report will tell you if you need to worry about your car, and in the case of it going to court, their assessments will stand up in court (they'll often testify too).
http://www.iaea-online.org/Ireland.asp