Garda vetting concerns

runswithascript

After an intensive interview process and technical examination I have very recently been offered a very good job in the telecommunications sector. I have been advised today I will need to complete a Garda vetting form.

8 years ago when I was 18 I had too much to drink one night I was in some trouble with the guards, and without going into too much detail it was not for theft or robbery and I did not hurt anybody but that said I did receive convictions on a suspended sentence and a fine.

More recently I also received a public order fine for being intoxicated in public one night although again I was not a threat to anybody, possibly other than myself.

After completing the form will information of all this come back to my prospective employer? If so should I just decline the offer?

HellFireClub

dusf wrote: »

After an intensive interview process and technical examination I have very recently been offered a very good job in the telecommunications sector. I have been advised today I will need to complete a Garda vetting form.

8 years ago when I was 18 I had too much to drink one night I was in some trouble with the guards, and without going into too much detail it was not for theft or robbery and I did not hurt anybody but that said I did receive convictions on a suspended sentence and a fine.

More recently I also received a public order fine for being intoxicated in public one night although again I was not a threat to anybody, possibly other than myself.

After completing the form will information of all this come back to my prospective employer? If so should I just decline the offer?

I read this on the FAS website recently, it deals with the Garda vetting process, bear in mind that this only relates to the end of the process where it might be employed for vetting people working with children or vunerable adults. But it's a start...

http://www.fas.ie/NR/rdonlyres/D3004D9B-3F31-4286-B4CF-10E4E28D3798/1005/DownloadLearnerInformationGardaVetting.doc

Reloc8

Garda vetting will disclose the convictions.

Complete the form - disclosing the existence of the convictions yourself. There is a world of difference in how most sensible people will view that kind of thing depending on whether you are straight up about it or not.

Provide the form to your employer with a cover letter setting out frankly what happened in respect of each incident and your regret/remorse over same, and that you are anxious to fully address in person any issues which arise etc. etc. Follow up with a phone call in similar terms to the person who offered you the job.

Maybe they will withdraw the offer but you might as well try.

runswithascript

Is there anywhere I can get a copy of my criminal record so I can see exactly what is on it? There are only three things as far as I know but I would like to see exactly what it says before I declare anything.

Funfair

dusf wrote: »

Is there anywhere I can get a copy of my criminal record so I can see exactly what is on it? There are only three things as far as I know but I would like to see exactly what it says before I declare anything.

You can’t get a copy of your criminal records as the Guards don’t come under the freedom of information act because they hold sensitive files on people.

Makes sense as every criminal in the Country would be looking for a copy of what exactly the Guards know about them.

runswithascript

Funfair wrote: »

You can’t get a copy of your criminal records as the Guards don’t come under the freedom of information act because they hold sensitive files on people.

Makes sense as every criminal in the Country would be looking for a copy of what exactly the Guards know about them.

They are able to give a copy out to a third party when I authorise it but not when I request it for personal use? Go figure.

The reason for my asking is that I see on the form I have to volunteer any dealings I have had with them. I was 18 years old and don't remember the exact charge etc.

Funfair

Reloc8 post above ^ explains your best course of action..

Your better off telling the truth on those Garda Vetting Forms..

If you don't know the Court number for the form etc.. call into the local Garda Station and they could help you fill in the details and if your cute enough you could get the Guard your dealing with to tell you what they have on record for you.;)

billyhead

Would an adult caution show up on on a background check?

mcgarrett

billyhead wrote: »

Would an adult caution show up on on a background check?

no, an adult caution is not a previous conviction. It can only be mentioned if you are convicted before the court on a subsequent offence.

James Jones

Funfair wrote: »

You can’t get a copy of your criminal records as the Guards don’t come under the freedom of information act because they hold sensitive files on people.

Makes sense as every criminal in the Country would be looking for a copy of what exactly the Guards know about them.

As the Gardai are not yet covered by Freedom of Information, you can get a full copy of all records that they have on you by making a Data Protection Access Request
It might be too slow a process for you though as you have to allow 30 working days (I think!).

WildOscar

dusf wrote: »

Is there anywhere I can get a copy of my criminal record so I can see exactly what is on it? There are only three things as far as I know but I would like to see exactly what it says before I declare anything.

see my suggestion has been made

MagicSean

Judge must have been in a bad mood to give you a suspended sentence for a public order charge with no previous.

runswithascript

Reloc8 wrote: »

There is a world of difference in how most sensible people will view that kind of thing depending on whether you are straight up about it or not.

Maybe they will withdraw the offer but you might as well try.

Their HR department is outsourced, they did headhunt me from another company when I was not seeking another job, and they really have been especially nice to me and seemed to have taken a special interest, taking me in for a mock interview prior to the final one and telling me how to make sure I am the selected candidate. Maybe when I meet with them in a few days maybe if I come clean they may just swing it for me.

Please understand that I believe I am going to be given the form to take home and complete before sending it to the guards and I also do not think that I will be asked if I have any convictions. I am now trying to decide upon whether I should bring it up when receiving the form, or just let them find out in the 4-8 weeks it takes the guards to send it back by which time I will have been settled in the company.

Funfair wrote: »

You can’t get a copy of your criminal records as the Guards don’t come under the freedom of information act because they hold sensitive files on people.

Makes sense as every criminal in the Country would be looking for a copy of what exactly the Guards know about them.

I do not think that it makes sense citizens can be required to sign a form specifying what exactly happened in court 8 years ago, possibly committing fraud inadvertently, and the state not allowing people to first double check this information.

Also, I am not looking for 'what exactly the Guards' might know about me, not that there's a whole lot to begin with as I am not a career criminal, I am merely looking for information on what exactly I have been charged with and what was written off etc.

Funfair wrote: »

Your better off telling the truth on those Garda Vetting Forms..

Oh either way I will be telling the truth on the form because it will be checked by the guards and sent back to my employer in 4-8 weeks as far as I know anyway. If it is found I lied on the form that is fraud and something I would deem grounds for instant dismissal.

Funfair wrote: »

If you don't know the Court number for the form etc.. call into the local Garda Station and they could help you fill in the details and if your cute enough you could get the Guard your dealing with to tell you what they have on record for you.;)

I would actually be surprised if I went to the local Garda station with my passport and the form, explained the situation and that I am trying to be as truthful as possible on the form and the guard would not help me

James Jones wrote: »

It might be too slow a process for you though as you have to allow 30 working days (I think!).

Indeed but thank you for the suggestion

k_mac wrote: »

Judge must have been in a bad mood to give you a suspended sentence for a public order charge with no previous.

Nowhere does it say I received a suspended sentence for a public order charge. I have not specified exactly what happened nor do not intend to, only that it was not theft, robbery, any form of assault or in fact anything to do with drugs.

I believe they may primarily be concerned with fraud due to the sensitive nature of data they deal with.

Is was put to me in the interview "the background check is just to make sure you're not an axe murderer or anything".

Victor

dusf wrote: »

... too much to drink ... intoxicated ...

It might be useful to demonstrate that this is no longer a problem.

runswithascript

I was up front and they took time to decide but eventually advised me although they would like to keep me on some of their clients are state entities and banks etc that may do their own background checks and this could pose a problem.

Thank you for all the input.

coylemj

If your prospective new job is in the communications sector, how come you need Garda vetting - is it because you might be visiting schools to do work on their networks?

runswithascript

coylemj wrote: »

If your prospective new job is in the communications sector, how come you need Garda vetting - is it because you might be visiting schools to do work on their networks?

Telecommunications sector. Nothing to do with schools or kids. The job was in a data centre that would have servers for state bodies and big banks etc.

Ab roller plus

It is also worth noting that when a garda check is carried the Gardai also report incidents which are on their computer but not recorded as convictions. Complaints and issue of summons etc. Seem like a breach of your right to privacy and seem excessive.

I've always wondered if there was the potential for a test case here. For example if you are offered a job, the offer is then withdrawn on the basis of something a minor conviction, which happened say 10 years previously and would not have any affect on your ability to do your job. IE public order offence and you are going for a job in a gym!!

Any constitutional lawyer got any views?

Reloc8

Don't know where you're getting that from.

Any vetting application or disclosure (that is the info that comes back) I've seen has only ever referred to convictions with the odd exceptional reference to a probation of offenders act order i.e. nothing regarding arrests/issues of summons anything like that.

Have you come across the opposite ?

There's no constitutional issue in respect of what you mention.

Bosco boy

Ab roller plus wrote: »

It is also worth noting that when a garda check is carried the Gardai also report incidents which are on their computer but not recorded as convictions. Complaints and issue of summons etc. Seem like a breach of your right to privacy and seem excessive.

I've always wondered if there was the potential for a test case here. For example if you are offered a job, the offer is then withdrawn on the basis of something a minor conviction, which happened say 10 years previously and would not have any affect on your ability to do your job. IE public order offence and you are going for a job in a gym!!

Any constitutional lawyer got any views?

Incorrect, only convictions

MagicSean

I think you're confusing it with a request under the data protection act.

runswithascript

Spoke with a guard this morning who told me it's likely any charges would have been expunged from my record after five years, that I should chance my arm the next time, but to confirm with a solicitor.

Reloc8

Well, sorry to say there's no system for expunging convictions in Ireland.

And I've personally experienced PULSE records going back a hell of a long time - far more than five years.

Dopey

Reloc8 wrote: »

Don't know where you're getting that from.

Any vetting application or disclosure (that is the info that comes back) I've seen has only ever referred to convictions with the odd exceptional reference to a probation of offenders act order i.e. nothing regarding arrests/issues of summons anything like that.

Have you come across the opposite ?

There's no constitutional issue in respect of what you mention.

Also includes prosecutions that are not successful.

"Within current disclosure policy, details of all convictions and/or prosecutions, successful or not, pending or completed, in the State or elsewhere as the case may be are disclosed to the authorised liaison person in the registered organisation".

http://www.garda.ie/FAQ/Default.aspx?FAQCategory=36#FAQ2722

nowwalehtdna

Reloc8 wrote: »

Don't know where you're getting that from.

Any vetting application or disclosure (that is the info that comes back) I've seen has only ever referred to convictions with the odd exceptional reference to a probation of offenders act order i.e. nothing regarding arrests/issues of summons anything like that.

Have you come across the opposite ?

There's no constitutional issue in respect of what you mention.

What if, say someone had a court appearance and resulted in a non-conviction and this came back on the clearance and they were then removed from the post because of this?

spurs1961

1. Tell them.
2. Get records from old case if you had a solicitor .
3. Get a court solicitor to ghost write a mitigation to employer.
4. Get your GP to conform you are not an alcoholic (recnet fine will be a worry).
5. Agree to restrictive term in a contract of employment


Will cost you but how badly do you want job