A sinking ship?

Ganymede Glow

I was watching a documentary last night about the Titanic disaster and started thinking to myself. Why should a captain have to go down with a sinking ship? I understand that some captains may feel a certain connection with their boat and choose to stay aboard, but in any disaster the first thing that should be done is to preserve human life? Was it a law that the captain must be the last to leave? What would you do if you were captain and the chance to leave the sinking vessell presented itself?

biko

I guess the captain has ultimate responsibility to get everyone off the ship, thus s/he is the last to leave.

Duggy747

He was afraid of being told off.

Or, more realistically, he imagines he should be the last person to leave and ensure the safety of everyone.

Saadyst

Think it's probably an honour thing. You were in charge of the vessel, if it sank, you take responsibility and stay with it til the end etc.

Backard_Pell

I was watching a video presentation by a social commentator, who was comparing Ireland to the titanic, with 1 exception, the captain will not be going down with Ireland

Ganymede Glow

biko wrote: »

I guess the captain has ultimate responsibility to get everyone off the ship, thus s/he is the last to leave.

I understand that, however if a captain had a chance to survive shouldnt he take it? I mean its one more survivor?

Kimono-Girl

i would give up my seat on the rescue boat to save the life of another man!


women and children only is soooo sexist/ageist! :eek:

youcancallmeal

Loose lips sink ships.

Make of that what you will.

Ganymede Glow

Providing the captain was not at fault, I dont see why he should have to stay on a doomed ship. He/she is still a human being

fakearms123

Because when your a big Sea Captain you always want to go down for Seamen! :pac:

prinz

Harks back to the old Spartan motto - come back with your shield, or on it. The captain's job was to get everyone, passengers and crew off first and to stay in command as long as humanly possible. If a passanger died and the captain lived there would have been questions asked and a certain amount of disgrace attached. Captain Smith IIRC of the Titanic knew many were going to die.

It's the same with aircraft. The pilots job is to stay in as much control as possible for as long as possible.

jester77

Wonder does Brian Cowen think Ireland is a ship

Dravokivich

Kimono-Girl wrote: »

i would give up my seat on the rescue boat to save the life of another man!


women and children only is soooo sexist/ageist! :eek:

Thanks for that, I'll remember you always!

Ganymede Glow

prinz wrote: »

Harks back to the old Spartan motto - come back with your shield, or on it. The captain's job was to get everyone, passengers and crew off first and to stay in command as long as humanly possible. If a passanger died and the captain lived there would have been questions asked and a certain amount of disgrace attached. Captain Smith IIRC of the Titanic knew many were going to die.

It's the same with aircraft. The pilots job is to stay in as much control as possible for as long as possible.

Good point. But have things not moved on from then. I cant say I would hold any grudge against a captain for leaving a sinking ship, providing he/she was not at fault. Is it a cowardly thing to do?

biko

Kimono-Girl wrote: »

i would give up my seat on the rescue boat to save the life of another man!
women and children only is soooo sexist/ageist!

But you're a kimono girl?

KeithM89_old

It sinks!? I havent got to that part of the movie yet...:(


Dont see why a captain should go down with the ship. If a house is on fire does the owner wait til everyone else is out??

prinz

Ganymede Glow wrote: »

Good point. But have things not moved on from then. I cant say I would hold any grudge against a captain for leaving a sinking ship, providing he/she was not at fault. Is it a cowardly thing to do?

Well if he hops off without doing his job, yes. Part of the job description is to put everyone else first. Provided everyone else was safely off and nothing could be done to save the ship or cargo, then the captain should get off.

Ganymede Glow

KeithM89 wrote: »

It sinks!? I havent got to that part of the movie yet...:(


Dont see why a captain should go down with the ship. If a house is on fire does the owner wait til everyone else is out??

Exactly my point. Its ridiculous to expect a human being to allow themselves to be killed if there is absolutely no need for it

Dravokivich

Ganymede Glow wrote: »

Good point. But have things not moved on from then. I cant say I would hold any grudge against a captain for leaving a sinking ship, providing he/she was not at fault. Is it a cowardly thing to do?

Some time last year, can't remember the exact details, but just the basics of the story. There was outrage from passengers of a ferry because once the Captain called for abandon ship, the captain and crew were off the ferry pretty quick, leaving the passengers behind on board trying to read instructions on how to use the life rafts....

It's not that it's cowardly, it's ridiculas leaving someone in a position they wouldn't have been trained to deal with...

The time wasted trying to learn how to use the gear would of been put to better use, by people who knew how to use it in the first place...

Reason for the captian being among the last, would be that they'd be seen to be someone responsible and in command of the situation. A sort of authority figure...

Ganymede Glow

prinz wrote: »

Well if he hops off without doing his job, yes. Part of the job description is to put everyone else first. Provided everyone else was safely off and nothing could be done to save the ship or cargo, then the captain should get off.

But lets say the captain is standing on deck with the ship just about to sink completely? He knows there are people who have drowned below deck and the ship is doomed, yet there is one more seat in a rescue boat, should he not take it?

Tabnabs

On ships with big crews and many passengers, the captain, who is obviously the most experienced person aboard, will remain in control to direct the abandon ship operations. Titanic didn't have enough capacity in her lifeboats for everybody aboard so there was little choice in the matter. With smaller numbers and post Titanic times there was space for all so everybody got off (hopefully).

It's also worth noting that having the captain in the lifeboat meant you stood a better chance of survival. Capt Bligh of the Mutiny on the Bounty fame proved that after they set them adrift.

tommyhaas

As a seafarer, there's not a chance Id be hanging around after the order to abandon has been given. It does happen that, say in the case of fire, senior Officers and Crew may remain onboard to fight the fire while others abandon on the instruction of the Capt, however once the order to abandon has been given, you can be guarenteed most Capts will go. After abandoning, the Capt still has responsibility for crew on the lifeboat/liferafts , so no he shouldnt go down with the ship

However, given the culture of criminalisation of seafarers, it could be the easy option for the Capt to avoid prosecution

Tabnabs

tommyhaas wrote: »

However, given the culture of criminalisation of seafarers, it could be the easy option for the Capt to avoid prosecution

Death to avoid possible prosecution, come on, really?? None of the old men I sailed with would have agreed with you.

prinz

Ganymede Glow wrote: »

But lets say the captain is standing on deck with the ship just about to sink completely? He knows there are people who have drowned below deck and the ship is doomed, yet there is one more seat in a rescue boat, should he not take it?

Possibly these days. Back in the old days there would have been a sense of shame and guilt attached.

NothingMan

If I was the captain I'd be halfway to shore on the only lifeboat before anyone else even realised the ship was sinking to begin with.

Ganymede Glow

I can understand that a captain should not be one of the first in a lifeboat, that is cowardly imo. However if he/she has helped in the rescue effort and helped save lives I dont see why he should have to stay aboard and let himself be killed. It just seems so pointless and a waste of human life

Duggy747

If I was a captain and found out Paris Hilton / Jordan were on my ship I'd sail it straight into an iceberg, get on a raft and detonate the C4 charges.

Tabnabs

prinz wrote: »

Possibly these days. Back in the old days there would have been a sense of shame and guilt attached.

Sometimes the shame and guilt was put on captains for the loss of their ships as was the case of the Luisitania and Capt Turner

Latchy

Dravokivich wrote: »

Some time last year, can't remember the exact details, but just the basics of the story. There was outrage from passengers of a ferry because once the Captain called for abandon ship, the captain and crew were off the ferry pretty quick, leaving the passengers behind on board trying to read instructions on how to use the life rafts....

It's not that it's cowardly, it's ridiculas leaving someone in a position they wouldn't have been trained to deal with...

The time wasted trying to learn how to use the gear would of been put to better use, by people who knew how to use it in the first place...

Reason for the captian being among the last, would be that they'd be seen to be someone responsible and in command of the situation. A sort of authority figure...

Indeed , think that might have being a greek ship to . Which is why all the crew of passenger ferrys are required by law to have regular weekly safety training periods , which is the responsibility of captain and first officer to ensure takes place..sometimes straight after a sailing into port ( regular training keeps the crew fresh ,non complacent and less likley to make errors of judgement regards ship and passenger safety )

Latchy (

Former steward , SuperSeacat / Lady of Man ferrys -Liverpool -Douglas -Dublin - 2000/05 )

/ Salutes the crew of SS Boards.ie :cool:

tommyhaas

Tabnabs wrote: »

Death to avoid possible prosecution, come on, really?? None of the old men I sailed with would have agreed with you.

Was tounge in cheek tbh, was having a dig at the criminalistion culture. If you loose a loaded VLCC in US waters, well you might be better off dead

Like the user name btw, very nautical

Jake Rugby Walrus666

Kate Winslet wasn't messing around though. She was staying up on
that piece wood - no one else was getting a shot out of the freezing water.
"Yes Jack. The heart will go on. Now fuck off and drown"

tommyhaas

NothingMan wrote: »

If I was the captain I'd be halfway to shore on the only lifeboat before anyone else even realised the ship was sinking to begin with.

Thats usually the Engineers trick. You start worrying when you see them leave the pit and hang around the lifeboat

phasers

If a captain got off the boat could he ever work again? I think I'd consider him bad luck...

tommyhaas

Latchy wrote: »

Indeed , think that might have being a greek ship

Explains a lot

tommyhaas

phasers wrote: »

If a captain got off the boat could he ever work again? I think I'd consider him bad luck...

If it wasent his fault, and he didnt loose his tickets as a result, no reason why not

phasers

I always wondered if seamen were particularly superstitious

tommyhaas

phasers wrote: »

I always wondered if seamen were particularly superstitious

Some are, the Filipino's tend to be quiet superstitious. Personally I wouldnt be

Trog

Will this guy be going down when boards sinks then?

Ganymede Glow

phasers wrote: »

I always wondered if seamen were particularly superstitious

The Deadliest Catch captains are somewhat superstitious. Wont sail out on a Friday

Trog

phasers wrote: »

I always wondered if seamen were particularly superstitious

Well when you;re competing with 40 million others you need all the help you can get...

Skuxx

phasers wrote: »

I always wondered if seamen were particularly superstitious

I sailed on a Dutch Tallship for a while and the captain was the most supersticious man I've ever come across

• Always step aboard with your right foot first
• NO whistling
• No looking back once you've left port
• He had one with glasses aswell but not sure what it was

There were more just can't think now! I wouldn't really be into that myself!

kowloon

Dravokivich wrote: »

Some time last year, can't remember the exact details, but just the basics of the story. There was outrage from passengers of a ferry because once the Captain called for abandon ship, the captain and crew were off the ferry pretty quick, leaving the passengers behind on board trying to read instructions on how to use the life rafts....

I remember something like that, can't think of a name though. It's not the first time it's appened either.
There was a cruise ship that went down in the early 90s and like the one last year the crew and captain were out of the place long before the passengers. The entertainments director and the entertainers were the only people left that were familiar with the ship, they organised the evacuation.
Captain later claimed he left early to go and get help :rolleyes:.

tommyhaas

• No looking back once you've left port

How can you keep a proper look out if your not going to look astern?

Skuxx

tommyhaas wrote: »

[/LIST] How can you keep a proper look out if your not going to look astern?

Tbh I think it was more a case of once you've left, thats it move on! Don't be looking back on your time spent there, your at sea and you've a job to do!

Conor108

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vp--AlWBrU

dan719

Ganymede Glow wrote: »

The Deadliest Catch captains are somewhat superstitious. Wont sail out on a Friday

Skippers

Not Captains.

The man in charge on a fishing boat is always a skipper. It's called a skipper's ticket for a reason. I don't know why discovery insists on calling them captains.

With regard to the superstitions, different fishermen have different ones...some I have come across in working are;

- If you see a rat on the way to the dock, turn around and go home
-Never paint a boat green, green is the colour of land
-Never eat pig meat (sausages etc) on a boat because pigs can't swim
-Never say pig, salmon or rat whilst onboard
-If a man falls overboard(and is rescued) go home and stay there for three days
-Don't paint a boat red (That's my auld lad's one because the last boat he owned that sank was red)
- Touching "cold iron" is supposed to ward off bad luck on a boat

With regard to the actual thread....do I think the Captain/Skipper should go down with his boat? F*ck right off. Yes he should be the last person off the boat and ensure all necessary measures to save lives have been taken and then he should look after himself. Anyone who thinks otherwise has a) never been in charge of a boat and b) is a retard.

up for anything

Kimono-Girl wrote: »

i would give up my seat on the rescue boat to save the life of another man!

women and children only is soooo sexist/ageist! :eek:

Ah yes, but it stems from way back when the survival of the species rested with the child bearing capability of women. One man could impregnate any number of females thus ensuring the survival of the species but one woman would have had a hard time of it bearing enough live/healthy children to keep mankind afloat. Also children represented survival of the species because they needed less supplies to keep them alive and had lots of procreation years left. So women and children were always protected from harm as much as possible.

You didn't really think it was a courtesy thing!

Manic Moran

Some time last year, can't remember the exact details, but just the basics of the story. There was outrage from passengers of a ferry because once the Captain called for abandon ship, the captain and crew were off the ferry pretty quick, leaving the passengers behind on board trying to read instructions on how to use the life rafts....

Some of the first life boats to make it to Stockholm from Andrea Doria were filled with ship's crew. When Stockholm's crew discovered this, they laid into the Andrea Doria crewmen.

dan719 wrote: »

Skippers

Not Captains.

The man in charge on a fishing boat is always a skipper. It's called a skipper's ticket for a reason. I don't know why discovery insists on calling them captains.

Quite possible that there is a legal difference in the US depending on the route that they obtained their Master's qualifications or on the level of authority that they have over the ship (as opposed to the ship's complement and passengers, which is pretty much absolute in both cases). There may be a traditional distinction for fishing, just like a Great Lakes Freighter or a submarine is always traditionally called a 'boat', even though they are to all intents and purposes 'ships' and displace tens of thousands of tons.

NTM