Ireland Wolfhounds (A team) thread.

CouchSmart

Two A team games coming up. The first, away against Scotland A, a week before the 6N and the second against the Saxons, a week later in Ravenhill.

Kidney is due to name a 22 man squad for the first game next week. Any thoughts on what the team will be?

My selection for Scotland game:

15. Fitz/Duffy (Both need game time before the 6N).
14. Horgan
13. O'Malley
12. McFadden
11. J. Murphy
10. Humps
9. Boss

1. Wilkinson
2. Varley
3. Ross
4. Tuohy
5. POC captain (Game time)
6. Coughlan
7. Jennings
8. Henry

My selection is a bit of a what I'd like to see + a bit a of what I think DK will choose.

Not really sure if players who are involved in the 30 man Irish squad will be involved in the first A game, makes sense to me though to give them game time.

Stev_o

If he does intend on promoting people to the full squad XV you'd want to be playing them here.

Is EOM even fit again? If not id have Spence in there.

Also get rid of Horgan and put Carr in there instead.

CouchSmart

Stev_o wrote: »

If he does intend on promoting people to the full squad XV you'd want to be playing them here.

Is EOM even fit again? If not id have Spence in there.

Also get rid of Horgan and put Carr in there instead.

EOM was back two weeks ago. It's be a toss up between himself and Spence really, my Leinster bias swayed me towards EOM. :P

Horgan is in the form of his life, he deserves a go. He's unlucky to have Bowe ahead of him in the first XV. Carr is playing meh at the moment.

Stev_o

CouchSmart wrote: »

EOM was back two weeks ago. It's be a toss up between himself and Spence really, my Leinster bias swayed me towards EOM. :P

Horgan is in the form of his life, he deserves a go. He's unlucky to have Bowe ahead of him in the first XV. Carr is playing meh at the moment.

It's a A squad though. What do you get out of playing a player we already know loads about? Same sorta goes for POC. Give someone else a shot there like Nagle, Toner or Mcloughlin. I see A games as a opportunity to see how young talent takes to playing at a sub national level and how they can gel being with a group of guys they'v probably never played with before.

CouchSmart

Stev_o wrote: »

It's a A squad though. What do you get out of playing a player we already know loads about? Same sorta goes for POC. Give someone else a shot there like Nagle, Toner or Mcloughlin. I see A games as a opportunity to see how young talent takes to playing at a sub national level and how they can gel being with a group of guys they'v probably never played with before.

A bit of experience throughout the team though is needed.

RE POC: He'll have 2 games in the last 9 months under his belt going into the 6N if he doesn't play this, we need him to be in prime form for Italy the week after, he needs games to find form. That being said, I doubt Kidney agrees with me. Infact, I doubt there'll be anyone in the Wolfhound 22 and the Irish squad.

Stev_o

CouchSmart wrote: »

A bit of experience throughout the team though is needed.

RE POC: He'll have 2 games in the last 9 months under his belt going into the 6N if he doesn't play this, we need him to be in prime form for Italy the week after, he needs games to find form. That being said, I doubt Kidney agrees with me. Infact, I doubt there'll be anyone in the Wolfhound 22 and the Irish squad.

I dunno if it's just me but i really don't want to see POC play the 6N unless it's absolutely required. That said it's off topic.

What other hookers are going to be involved here anyway. Will Croinn be on the bench?

Stev_o

Stev_o wrote: »

It's a A squad though. What do you get out of playing a player we already know loads about? Same sorta goes for POC. Give someone else a shot there like Nagle, Toner or Mcloughlin. I see A games as a opportunity to see how young talent takes to playing at a sub national level and how they can gel being with a group of guys they'v probably never played with before.

If POC has any aspirations of 6n matches he'd want to get as much gametime as possible, whether it be at club, provincial or Ireland A level. Besides, you need one or two experienced players to anchor the squad.

CouchSmart

Stev_o wrote: »

I dunno if it's just me but i really don't want to see POC play the 6N unless it's absolutely required. That said it's off topic.

What other hookers are going to be involved here anyway. Will Croinn be on the bench?

I'd imagine Brady will be involved, past that it's hard to know.

If Cronin, Varley and Best are the 3 hookers in the 6N squad and none of them are in the Wolfhound 22 it starts getting tough to pick 2 hookers! Harris-Wright in Leinster; Sherry in Munster; Brady and Kyriacou(?) in Ulster.

TheHighRoad

No point in playing oldies who we know loads about. I'd prefer something like this: 1.Wilkinson 2.Harris-Wright 3.Hagan 4.Toner 5.Touhy 6.Ruddock 7.Dominic Ryan 8.Coughlan 9.Marshall 10.Keatley 11.Carr 12.Spence (McFadden should be involved in Ireland team) 13.O'Malley 14.Griffin 15.Adam D'arcy 16.Sherry 17.McGrath 18.Nagle 19.O'Mahony 20.O'Donahue 21.Jackson 22.Conway

CouchSmart

TheHighRoad wrote: »

No point in playing oldies who we know loads about. I'd prefer something like this: 1.Wilkinson 2.Harris-Wright 3.Hagan 4.Toner 5.Touhy 6.Ruddock 7.Dominic Ryan 8.Coughlan 9.Marshall 10.Keatley 11.Carr 12.Spence (McFadden should be involved in Ireland team) 13.O'Malley 14.Griffin 15.Adam D'arcy 16.Sherry 17.McGrath 18.Nagle 19.O'Mahony 20.O'Donahue 21.Jackson 22.Conway

I don't really understand the attitude that experienced players shouldn't play in A games. Every team needs a spine of experience, without that it's just lambs to the slaughter.

TheHighRoad

CouchSmart wrote: »

I don't really understand the attitude that experienced players shouldn't play in A games. Every team needs a spine of experience, without that it's just lambs to the slaughter.

I wouldnt call that team lambs to the slaughter. Wilkinson is second best loosehead in the country. Harris-Wright has done well so far for Leinster. Hagan is the second best tighthead in the country after Ross (he should probably be ahead of Buckley). Toner has an international cap and plays well in the ML and has done in the HC. Touhy is the most inform second row in the country and in my opinion should be ahead of O'Connell (who doesnt even have to play his way back into the team apparently), O'Callaghan and O'Driscoll on current form. Ruddock, Ryan and Coughlan is an excellent backrow with HC experience and in the case of Ruddock an international cap. Marshall outperformed all the scrum halfs in Ireland against Munster. Keatley is Ireland's no.3 outhalf. Carr scores tries for fun in the ML. Spence is an ML player who has been excellent. O'Malley has ML and HC experience and has excelled. Griffin has looked a threat whenever hes played and D'arcy has ML and HC experience and has played great so far.

CouchSmart

TheHighRoad wrote: »

Wilkinson is second best loosehead in the country. I agree, he's on my team.
Harris-Wright has done well so far for Leinster. He's done ok in his two or three performance, hardly deserves a start in an A game?
Hagan is the second best tighthead in the country after Ross. He's only behind Ross on my team because I feel Kidney won't pick Ross for 6N, otherwise he'd be in.

Toner has an international cap and plays well in the ML and has done in the HC. No problem with this.
Touhy is the most inform second row in the country... Agree with this, I'd have him in the 6N squad. I had POC in my team for game time.

Ruddock, Ryan and Coughlan is an excellent backrow with HC experience and in the case of Ruddock an international cap. Ruddock got capped because there was no one else and to tie him up. There's no where near enough experience in this back row, Ryan was barley playing U20's level last year.

Marshall outperformed all the scrum halfs ... No problem with this, I'd have Boss ahead of him myself.
Keatley is Ireland's no.3 outhalf. Being 3rd best outhalf in Ireland doesn't mean he's good. I'd have Humphries ahead of him.

Carr scores tries for fun in the ML. He's not this season. Overrated imo.

Spence is an ML player who has been excellent. Yep, I've said above about him.

O'Malley has ML and HC experience and has excelled. See above

Griffin has looked a threat whenever hes played Too young and inexperienced imo, let him play a few more games for Connacht first

D'arcy has ML and HC experience and has played great so far. Wouldn't have a problem with this really, I was just giving game time to Ireland's potential full backs.

I don't doubt the quality of the players but there's an obvious lack of leaders and experience. The Saxons would put 30 - 40 points on that team.

irishbucsfan

I'd like to see 1. Wilkinson 2. Cronin 3. Ross 4. Toner 5. Tuohy 6. McLaughlin 7. Faloon 8. O'Brien (c) 9. Boss 10. Wallace 11. Carr 12. McFadden 13. O'Malley/Spence 14. Horgan 15. Fitzgerald

All players who are on the fringe of the national team (bar O'Malley/Spence0. We are served by getting to see all of these guys and it's important to have someone like O'Brien/Horgan there with bags of experience to lead the team. Wallace could well start at 10, Kidney likes to have him able to play there it seems.

CouchSmart

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I'd like to see 1. Wilkinson 2. Cronin 3. Ross 4. Toner 5. Tuohy 6. McLaughlin 7. Faloon 8. O'Brien (c) 9. Boss 10. Wallace 11. Carr 12. McFadden 13. O'Malley/Spence 14. Horgan 15. Fitzgerald

All players who are on the fringe of the national team (bar O'Malley/Spence0. We are served by getting to see all of these guys and it's important to have someone like O'Brien/Horgan there with bags of experience to lead the team. Wallace could well start at 10, Kidney likes to have him able to play there it seems.

Totally forgot about McLaughlin, I'm so ashamed!:p

You're right about Wallace, he'll probably start at 10 - sigh.

tolosenc

CouchSmart wrote: »

RE POC: He'll have 2 games in the last 9 months under his belt going into the 6N if he doesn't play this, we need him to be in prime form for Italy the week after, he needs games to find form. That being said, I doubt Kidney agrees with me. Infact, I doubt there'll be anyone in the Wolfhound 22 and the Irish squad.

No way in hell. He doesn't have a god given right to a place on the team (and based on the amount of rugby he's played recently he should be nowhere near the squad), and picking him here will only diminish the chances for Tuohy or Toner to really make their argument for selection.

irishbucsfan

CouchSmart wrote: »

Totally forgot about McLaughlin, I'm so ashamed!:p

You're right about Wallace, he'll probably start at 10 - sigh.

I wouldn't sigh. Humphreys and Keatley have both been dropped from their ML teams which would suggest to me that they aren't nearly good enough to be rewarded with international games. Wallace may not be a great 10 but he is very creative, which might be good to see in an A game.

CouchSmart

tolosenc wrote: »

No way in hell. He doesn't have a god given right to a place on the team (and based on the amount of rugby he's played recently he should be nowhere near the squad), and picking him here will only diminish the chances for Tuohy or Toner to really make their argument for selection.

POC is one of Ireland's most important players. I don't think he should walk straight back onto the team but I do want to see him get as many games as possible so he can earn his place back.

CouchSmart

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I wouldn't sigh. Humphreys and Keatley have both been dropped from their ML teams which would suggest to me that they aren't nearly good enough to be rewarded with international games. Wallace may not be a great 10 but he is very creative, which might be good to see in an A game.

Wallace at 10 is just such a failed experiment. 5 years later and we're still using him as 10 cover! Thanks god Sexton broke into the team or we'd still all have to pray during every game ROG didn't A: Get injured and B: Play badly.

David900

TheHighRoad wrote: »

No point in playing oldies who we know loads about. I'd prefer something like this: 1.Wilkinson 2.Harris-Wright 3.Hagan 4.Toner 5.Touhy 6.Ruddock 7.Dominic Ryan 8.Coughlan 9.Marshall 10.Keatley 11.Carr 12.Spence (McFadden should be involved in Ireland team) 13.O'Malley 14.Griffin 15.Adam D'arcy 16.Sherry 17.McGrath 18.Nagle 19.O'Mahony 20.O'Donahue 21.Jackson 22.Conway

Is Adam D'Arcy Irish qualified?

CouchSmart

David900 wrote: »

Is Adam D'Arcy Irish qualified?

Irish Granny I believe or something like that anyway.

Hype710

Assuming players involved in the 30 man Irish squad (including Varley, McFadden etc) won't be playing, I'd like to see:

15 Duffy
14 J Murphy
13 O' Malley
12 Spence
11 Carr
10 Keatley
9 Marshall
8 Coughlan
7 Faloon
6 McLaughlin
5 Toner
4 Tuohy
3 Hagan
2 Sherry
1 Wilkinson

16 Brady
17 Fitzpatrick
18 Nagle
19 Dom Ryan
20 F Murphy
21 Humphries
22 Hurley

thomond2006

I'd say Kidney will play Wallace at 10 like he did last year. Whoever is third choice between Stringer, TOL and Reddan will start.

I'd like to see:
Wilkinson, Varley, Hagan, POC (gametime), Toner, Coughlan, Faloon, Henry;
? , Humphreys, Carr, Spence, O'Malley, J Murphy, Duffy (if fit)

Bench: ?, McAllister/Darragh Hurley, Tuohy, McLaughlin, Marshall, Keatley, Denis Hurley

[Jackass]

1. Wilkinson
2. Varley
3. Hagan
4. Tuohy
5. Toner
6. McLoughlin
7. Dom Ryan
8. Rhys Ruddock

9. Reddan
10. Keatley
11. Trimble
12. McFadden
13. O'Malley
14. Carr
15. Conway

SomeFool

CouchSmart wrote: »

Wallace at 10 is just such a failed experiment. 5 years later and we're still using him as 10 cover! Thanks god Sexton broke into the team or we'd still all have to pray during every game ROG didn't A: Get injured and B: Play badly.

I think having Wallace as an option as 10 is an excellent thing within the squad, he offers better versatility from the bench in that he's good cover for 12 too. I'd have him on the bench ahead of rog or sexton.

jacothelad

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I wouldn't sigh. Humphreys and Keatley have both been dropped from their ML teams which would suggest to me that they aren't nearly good enough to be rewarded with international games. Wallace may not be a great 10 but he is very creative, which might be good to see in an A game.

O'Connor started the season as Ulster's ML 10. This says a lot about the poor quality of the coaching team at Ravenhill. If they can't see he's totally hopeless why the f**k are they doing in their jobs? As awful game followed awful game from NOC, McLoughlin eventually had to select Humphreys. He hasn't been dropped and has played every game since except those where Kidney has stupidly demanded Wallace play 10 or where Humphreys has in fact been injured and unavailable, e.g. v. Leinster and Munster.

Wallace is not a 10, never was 10, never will be a 10 and Kidney's use of him in that position is amateurish in the extreme.

Humphreys certainly has many detractors who are all too ready to belittle him. A fair bit of this begrudgery is likely to stem from the fact that he has a famous brother rather than any factual evidence. Should he play for Ireland? Probably not, unless ROG and Sexton are injured but he is immeasurably a better 10 than Wallace. His goal kicking can be top notch, knocking them over from beyond the half way line or the touch line. He has a monster clearance boot. He always wants to run and get things moving which can pay dividends but can also create havoc for Ulster. He certainly has weaknesses. He can be sublime one minute and then miss touch or throw an intercept in the next. He is a less than convincing tackler but probably no more so than ROG and many other 10s. It is however a convenient way to damn a player. Label him as a poor tackler - or worse - claim his poor tackling is down to 'fear' and it's all over. Mud sticks no matter what the actuality might be. The opposite of this of course is assigning and extolling a secondary talent to a poor player thus ensuring he remains free from criticism about his failings in his primary role. The rubbish about Hayes being good at 'lifting'. I mean how transparent is that? Easterby's 'unseen' work. Even going back to the days of Bradley at scrum half. he was an awful scrum half but won 40 or so caps because he was 'like an extra back row player'. Pure bilge.

I'd rather watch Humphreys play 10 than Keatley any day of the week. Rugby is about winning but also about entertainment.

David900 wrote: »

Is Adam D'Arcy Irish qualified?

D'Arcy is indeed Irish Qualified. He has played mostly very well so far and looks like a decent player but one who has a fair bit of room for improvement. He has decent pace, is pretty good under the high ball and has scored a number of good tries this season including 5 in one game for Ballynahinch. I doubt if he will ever get a look in for Ireland so what would be the point of him playing in an A game? Fitzgerald has looked all at sea this year at 15 so I fully expect him to play there for Ireland. Maybe he'll get a run out in the A game, play poorly again which Kidney will magically see as a 'good run out' and so cement his place in the 6Ns at 15. That is the normal way with Ireland and has been since I started watching them in the mid 1960s.

LostPassword

He is a less than convincing tackler but probably no more so than ROG and many other 10s. ... The rubbish about Hayes being good at 'lifting'. I mean how transparent is that? Easterby's 'unseen' work.

ROG is a world class tackler in comparison to iHumph - he's one of the only professional rugby players I've ever seen to not offer a tackle when a player is going over the line - presumably because it would hurt. There's no two ways about it and he has been dropped on several occasions by three different coaches explicitly for pulling out of tackles. ROG is not a great tackler but his failings are totally different - he puts his body on the line despite the fact that his body isn't strong enough to make the tackles he tries.

Hayes is unquestionably good at lifting - how is that rubbish? And Easterbunny did an awful lot of bottom of the ruck work / close in tackling etc.

Even going back to the days of Bradley at scrum half. he was an awful scrum half but won 40 or so caps because he was 'like an extra back row player'. Pure bilge.

This is true - but we didn't exactly have an awful lot of riches at 9 in the era and just because it's true doens't mean the other stuff is true - conventional wisdom is often correct.

iHumph is a sublimely gifted player, prone to brainfarts and when he's bad he can be supremely awful, but he's still one of the worst tacklers in professional rugby bar none.

Quint2010

CouchSmart wrote: »

Two A team games coming up. The first, away against Scotland A, a week before the 6N and the second against the Saxons, a week later in Ravenhill.

Kidney is due to name a 22 man squad for the first game next week. Any thoughts on what the team will be?

My selection for Scotland game:

15. Fitz/Duffy (Both need game time before the 6N).
14. Horgan
13. O'Malley
12. McFadden
11. J. Murphy
10. Humps
9. Boss

1. Wilkinson
2. Varley
3. Ross
4. Tuohy
5. POC captain (Game time)
6. Coughlan
7. Jennings
8. Henry

My selection is a bit of a what I'd like to see + a bit a of what I think DK will choose.

Not really sure if players who are involved in the 30 man Irish squad will be involved in the first A game, makes sense to me though to give them game time.

Depending on what goes on on saturday, Ross should be in the 6N squad

CouchSmart

Quint2010 wrote: »

Depending on what goes on on saturday, Ross should be in the 6N squad

There's the problem.

Kidney doesn't rate him. He'd be one of the first names in if I was Ireland coach.:o

Quint2010

CouchSmart wrote: »

There's the problem.

Kidney doesn't rate him. He'd be one of the first names in if I was Ireland coach.:o

Well if Munster were to get crushed in the scrum on sunday (whoch is possible) and Leinster's scrum is dominant on saturday (which is probable) Ross must be picked.

CouchSmart

Quint2010 wrote: »

Well if Munster were to get crushed in the scrum on sunday (whoch is possible) and Leinster's scrum is dominant on saturday (which is probable) Ross must be picked.

Quint2010

CouchSmart wrote: »

I can just see Buckley having a stormer and Kidney ignoring Ross-again:mad:

CouchSmart

Quint2010 wrote: »

I can just see Buckley having a stormer and Kidney ignoring Ross-again:mad:

Well if various sources hold out, it's going to be Hayes playing on Sunday.

To anyone suggesting Spence at 12, have you ever seen him play at 12? I have, and its absolutely the wrong position for him. He'd be a better 14 than a 12 every day of the week.

He doesn't have the power to be a bashem 12 like Roberts, he doesn't have the defense or creativity to play like D'Arcy.

He's a 13 or a 14. No idea why the U20s persisted with playing him at 12, he rarely gets the ball away, and stifling the ball at second receiver wont make you any room.

That being said, I think he will feature, maybe not in this round of the A games, but at 13.

Ciaran-Irl

jacothelad wrote: »

O'Connor started the season as Ulster's ML 10. This says a lot about the poor quality of the coaching team at Ravenhill. If they can't see he's totally hopeless why the f**k are they doing in their jobs? As awful game followed awful game from NOC, McLoughlin eventually had to select Humphreys. He hasn't been dropped and has played every game since except those where Kidney has stupidly demanded Wallace play 10 or where Humphreys has in fact been injured and unavailable, e.g. v. Leinster and Munster.

Wallace is not a 10, never was 10, never will be a 10 and Kidney's use of him in that position is amateurish in the extreme.

Humphreys certainly has many detractors who are all too ready to belittle him. A fair bit of this begrudgery is likely to stem from the fact that he has a famous brother rather than any factual evidence. Should he play for Ireland? Probably not, unless ROG and Sexton are injured but he is immeasurably a better 10 than Wallace. His goal kicking can be top notch, knocking them over from beyond the half way line or the touch line. He has a monster clearance boot. He always wants to run and get things moving which can pay dividends but can also create havoc for Ulster. He certainly has weaknesses. He can be sublime one minute and then miss touch or throw an intercept in the next. He is a less than convincing tackler but probably no more so than ROG and many other 10s. It is however a convenient way to damn a player. Label him as a poor tackler - or worse - claim his poor tackling is down to 'fear' and it's all over. Mud sticks no matter what the actuality might be. The opposite of this of course is assigning and extolling a secondary talent to a poor player thus ensuring he remains free from criticism about his failings in his primary role. The rubbish about Hayes being good at 'lifting'. I mean how transparent is that? Easterby's 'unseen' work. Even going back to the days of Bradley at scrum half. he was an awful scrum half but won 40 or so caps because he was 'like an extra back row player'. Pure bilge.

I'd rather watch Humphreys play 10 than Keatley any day of the week. Rugby is about winning but also about entertainment.

D'Arcy is indeed Irish Qualified. He has played mostly very well so far and looks like a decent player but one who has a fair bit of room for improvement. He has decent pace, is pretty good under the high ball and has scored a number of good tries this season including 5 in one game for Ballynahinch. I doubt if he will ever get a look in for Ireland so what would be the point of him playing in an A game? Fitzgerald has looked all at sea this year at 15 so I fully expect him to play there for Ireland. Maybe he'll get a run out in the A game, play poorly again which Kidney will magically see as a 'good run out' and so cement his place in the 6Ns at 15. That is the normal way with Ireland and has been since I started watching them in the mid 1960s.

Point well made. I think Humphreys would be well served going to the UK. Living in the shadow of him older brother as director of rugby can't be easy. The Leicester environment didn't seem to suit his temperament, but I think he would do well somewhere like London Irish.

Ciaran-Irl

Deleted User wrote: »

To anyone suggesting Spence at 12, have you ever seen him play at 12? I have, and its absolutely the wrong position for him. He'd be a better 14 than a 12 every day of the week.

He doesn't have the power to be a bashem 12 like Roberts, he doesn't have the defense or creativity to play like D'Arcy.

He's a 13 or a 14. No idea why the U20s persisted with playing him at 12, he rarely gets the ball away, and stifling the ball at second receiver wont make you any room.

That being said, I think he will feature, maybe not in this round of the A games, but at 13.

Not only that, but Luke Marshall is the future of Ulster at twelve, so he needs to find another position to get anywhere. 13 is the best bet.

Quint2010

CouchSmart wrote: »

Well if various sources hold out, it's going to be Hayes playing on Sunday.

Well thats Hayes' passport to the 6N copper fastened so..

PhatPiggins

Ciaran-Irl wrote: »

Point well made. I think Humphreys would be well served going to the UK. Living in the shadow of him older brother as director of rugby can't be easy. The Leicester environment didn't seem to suit his temperament, but I think he would do well somewhere like London Irish.

I think the opposite to be honest. If he was at an English club for the past 2/3 seasons he'd be no where the first team 22. He's too bloody inconsistent and if David wasn't his brother I think Ulster might have cut him last season. No coach has ever made him there first choice 10 from the get go which must tell us something about his attitude.


The guy has bags of talent but seems to have no discipline at all. If playing at Leicester can't teach you how to be a professional then nothing

Nuigforce

Anyone know if this is on tv?

irishbucsfan

Nuigforce wrote: »

Anyone know if this is on tv?

It was last year