IE network statement: Waterford-Rosslare 'disused line'

Hungerford

In one of IE's reluctant attempts to appear to be a responsible railway operator, they have produced a network statement for potential third-party private operators:

http://www.irishrail.ie/images/upload/sitemap/IE_Network_Statement_2011.pdf

The most striking thing though is that you cannot ask to use the Waterford-Rosslare line because Tricky Dicky and his mates have defined it as a 'disused line' with the same status as Mullingar-Athlone, Midleton-Youghal and other similarly well-maintained pieces of rail infrastructure.

I am almost tempted to contact them about running a freight flow from Tralee-Fenit, a disused line still on the books, if only to see how they explain the accidental placement of a shopping centre and apartment complex on the line.

Jehuty42

Fascinating read for the train buff, I must say.

They still have the speed limits listed for Limerick Check-Foynes and Tara Junction-Kingscourt even though it's physically impossible to enter these lines.

DWCommuter

I'd say the following quote kind of kills off any hope of a private operator on the Waterford - Rosslare section.

The Network Statement is published for the use of applicants for infrastructure capacity in the Republic of
Ireland. Railway undertakings can request capacity for international freight traffic within the EU area as
well as domestic freight traffic. Domestic passenger services may be operated only by Iarnród Éireann.

Judgement Day

Great stuff their for dribblers alright - nearly as good as the old GSR Appendix to the Working Timetable of 1935. The only thing missing was instructions for shunting by horses and provision of watering facilities. As for Waterford/Rosslare - well, have a look at the Save the Rail Facebook page here: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=367387502018&v=wall South Eastern branch of the IRRS?

Carawaystick

Second paragraph seems incorrect, Don't Vieola provide commuter rail services on the trams lines in Dublin?

also section 3.6 claims Mosney is a station, which seems not to be served on trains serving "all stations from Malahide to Dundalk"

Losty Dublin

Judgement Day wrote: »

Great stuff their for dribblers alright - nearly as good as the old GSR Appendix to the Working Timetable of 1935.

Don't diss the green book; there is some great reading on water towers, whistle codes and the all important piece on gong ringing for shunting in Cork tunnel. Plus I made a few € selling off my spare copies complete with drool covers

Judgement Day wrote: »

The only thing missing was instructions for shunting by horses and provision of watering facilities.

I have a GNR rule book somewhere around the house with same. So there :P

Judgement Day wrote: »

As for Waterford/Rosslare - well, have a look at the Save the Rail Facebook page here: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=367387502018&v=wall South Eastern branch of the IRRS?

The document actually allows for railway operators to apply to Irish Rail for "capacity" and it does refer to passenger and freight traffic in part 4.

Losty Dublin

Carawaystick wrote: »

Second paragraph seems incorrect, Don't Vieola provide commuter rail services on the trams lines in Dublin?

Luas is not covered or provided for under the auspices of CIE or it's subsidiaries so it won't come into consideration with this document. That said, it raises the point if the RPA need to come out with a similar document and access plan for it's network, both now and in the future.

L1011

Hungerford wrote: »

I am almost tempted to contact them about running a freight flow from Tralee-Fenit, a disused line still on the books, if only to see how they explain the accidental placement of a shopping centre and apartment complex on the line.

New Ross to Fenit, surely? Adds a few more roads and likely disconnected points to the 'flow'...

Judgement Day

These pics and write up on the Tralee Blog here: http://blog.tralee.org/2010/11/08/good-progress-and-some-confusion/#more-215 make amusing viewing. Note the state of the Tralee/Fenit line in particular! I wonder who is paying for the new 'park' near Blennerville as the [snip - mod edit: please read the charter and keep the name calling out of it] local business/political leaders in Tralee have always been ahead of the posse in getting funding for various projects - Jeanie Johnson, Waterworld and of course the highly authentic and defunct Tralee/Blennerville Steam Railway! Click on the pics to maximise pleasure/disbelief.



Ah feck it, I should have known they got a grant of €3 million to build their glorified duck ponds at a time when nobody else can get a bean - see here:http://blog.tralee.org/2010/06/22/lee-valley-park-project-goes-ahead/

Is the track being removed as part of this conversion? I know that the track was lifted in Tralee town itself but the rest should still be there in most places.

Judgement Day

Surely the track can't be lifted as the route is still part of the CIE/IE network and, as far as I know, has never been officially closed. The whole thing is another example of Tralee ........ism. :rolleyes:

thomasj

Interesting to see they quote the DART resignalling as a "project near completion"?

Hungerford

There goes my freight flow. Surely lifting track without prior approval is illegal? :eek:

As for the Green book, wouldn't it be an idea to compare the PSR from it to those listed in this document. Might be an interesting exercise...

DWCommuter

Hungerford wrote: »

I am almost tempted to contact them about running a freight flow from Tralee-Fenit, a disused line still on the books, if only to see how they explain the accidental placement of a shopping centre and apartment complex on the line.

The apartment complex and shopping centre were built on the former North Kerry yard. The alignment to fenit is still there as seen in the photo below.

Fenit branch.jpg

Hungerford

You learn something new every day.

DWCommuter

Losty Dublin wrote: »

The document actually allows for railway operators to apply to Irish Rail for "capacity" and it does refer to passenger and freight traffic in part 4.

But that aspect of the document completely contradicts the objective of the document.

1.2 Objective
The Network Statement is published for the use of applicants for infrastructure capacity in the Republic of
Ireland. Railway undertakings can request capacity for international freight traffic within the EU area as
well as domestic freight traffic. Domestic passenger services may be operated only by Iarnród Éireann.

Losty Dublin

DWCommuter wrote: »

But that aspect of the document completely contradicts the objective of the document.

The word "may" doesn't essentially tie Irish Rail down to being the exclusive service provider of passenger trains. Given the copious amount of space given to passenger trains in the document it's clear that there is plenty of provision for same.

monument

Losty Dublin wrote: »

The word "may" doesn't essentially tie Irish Rail down to being the exclusive service provider of passenger trains. Given the copious amount of space given to passenger trains in the document it's clear that there is plenty of provision for same.

Is the word "may" in this context now like saying "you may not speed"?

Losty Dublin

monument wrote: »

Is the word "may" in this context now like saying "you may not speed"?

You "may" have lost the point here

flyingsnail

Please correct me if I am wrong but I thought that statuary instrument 55 of 2010 (the reason Irish rail produced this statement) only applied to international passenger services, domestic and international freight but not domestic passenger.

Source

he purpose of these Regulations is to give effect to:

(a)Directive 91/440/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council of 29 July 1991, as amended by Directive 2001/12/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council of 26 February 2001, and by Directive 2004/51/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council of 29 April 2004 and by Directive 2007/58/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council of 23 October 2007 on the development of the Community’s railways. The Directive requires Member States to open up the international rail passenger service market by 1 January 2010. The Directive also requires Member States to grant access to railway undertakings for the purposes of operating international and domestic rail freight services or international combined transport goods services.

Judgement Day

DWCommuter wrote: »

The apartment complex and shopping centre were built on the former North Kerry yard. The alignment to fenit is still there as seen in the photo below.

Fenit branch.jpg

Time for this again. Well it's not my fault there's no dribblers forum.



The view northwards from Tralee (Edward Street LC) in 198?. The apartments now occupy the area where the truck is tipping in my photograph.

DWCommuter

The word "may" doesn't essentially tie Irish Rail down to being the exclusive service provider of passenger trains. Given the copious amount of space given to passenger trains in the document it's clear that there is plenty of provision for same.

I think you are playing with words as the definition of the word "may" and your interpretation of it do not fit together with the statement in the document. We'll agree to differ.

DWCommuter

Judgement Day wrote: »

Time for this again. Well it's not my fault there's no dribblers forum.



The view northwards from Tralee (Edward Street LC) in 198?. The apartments now occupy the area where the truck is tipping in my photograph.

You always have to go one better, don't you?:D

Transportuser09

One point to note is that this document indicates that Dart and Commuter are afforded a higher priority than Enterprise/Intercity services on the Connolly based routes, despite this being opposite to the priority given to Heuston based services. Find it hard to grasp the logic behind this. Sure the KRP will reduce congestion out of Heuston anyway but you would think the priority would be Intercity, long distance commuter, then Maynooth commuter/Dart.

donvito99

Is there still actual track between Midleton and Youghal?

admiralofthefleet

donvito99 wrote: »

Is there still actual track between Midleton and Youghal?

small sections have been lifted and some level crossings have been covered over
see here

dowlingm

I think in the final analysis DoT and NTA will decide if domestic passenger service will operate. Any prospective operator would probably not be ready to go before this document expires in December at which time IE could be informed that that particular provision will not be accepted for the next timetable period. However, the VHI is a good example of what can happen if an unreconstructed former monopolist is left to compete with newcomers. Better to chop up IE and sell off the parts separately (with infrastructure remaining in direct State control) than invite incomers to try and build a from-scratch operation.

The Tralee situation is a bloody joke. Why CIE has not disposed of the line to Kerry Council is beyond me. At least then it could become something useful like a bikeway. In Youghal's case it's not completely unrealistic to contemplate reopening in the early 2020s, should Cork CC continue to intensify that corridor, but if something doesn't happen in Tralee then the land will be lost as it is either encroached on or any change of use objected to by adjoining owners.

Judgement Day

Judgement Day wrote: »

Time for this again. Well it's not my fault there's no dribblers forum.



The view northwards from Tralee (Edward Street LC) in 198?. The apartments now occupy the area where the truck is tipping in my photograph.

That train would have been one of the last, if not the last, to traverse this line. I was under the impression this photo is of the weedsprayer in 1986, if this is the case then it certainly was the last train under CIÉ control. (though the GSRPS ran some trains to Fenit in 1987 of course).

I agree with dowlingm re Fenit, it's very unlikely we'll see trains going there again but I suppose never say never, they didn't have the foresight in the 1960s when they were closing lines left, right and centre.

trellheim

eiretrains had this ::

L1011

trellheim wrote: »

eiretrains had this ::

this?
http://eiretrains.com/Photo_Gallery/T/Tralee/slides/Tralee%20station%20looking%20west_2.html

You can't hotlink eiretrains images.

CIE

Losty Dublin wrote: »

The word "may" doesn't essentially tie Irish Rail down to being the exclusive service provider of passenger trains

Yes...it's the word "only" that does the tying down.

DWCommuter wrote: »

I think you are playing with words as the definition of the word "may" and your interpretation of it do not fit together with the statement in the document

It's like pontificating upon what the meaning of the word "is" is...

trellheim

You can't hotlink eiretrains images

does it not show up ?

L1011

It'll show up for you cause its in your cache. It won't show for anyone else.

trellheim

Right and thanks.

DWCommuter

CIE wrote: »

Yes...it's the word "only" that does the tying down.It's like pontificating upon what the meaning of the word "is" is...

An interesting take on the issue can be read below.

http://pipsrailway.wordpress.com/2011/01/13/theyll-try-anything/

Apparently no directive on Domestic Passenger services has been issued by the EU, only international passenger services. While the IE document refers to passenger services, its objective clearly states that only they may operate these services. One could be forgiven for thinking that the entire document is a fudge and remember that they still havent separated infrastructure management from the service provider as required under the EUs first railway package.

kingdumb

Hungerford wrote: »

Surely lifting track without prior approval is illegal? :eek:

Have you got a ref for that, I presume it's because a rail line has to be officially abandoned first, that right ?

Quackster

Although the Tralee-Fenit line is still officially 'in-situ' in the world of Iarnród Éireann, the fact on the ground is that certain individuals have already illegally appropriated sections of it. In one instance, the occupants of the old level-crossing cottage near the Spa have covered over a section of the line to provide themselves with a driveway and an enlarged garden.

A farmer in the Mounthawk area of Tralee is trying to prevent access to a section of the line that has been used by walkers in the town for a great many years, leading to a Garda presence on a protest march last Sunday organised to draw attention to the lack of progress on the greenway project.

The fact is IE have abjectly failed to protect what is state property and are continuing to drag their heels on it despite repeated attempts by Kerry County Council at getting them to sort this mess out.

Incidentially, the same thing is happening on the Trelee-Limerick line. On the outskirts of the town shortly after the split with the Fenit line, an individual has illegally extended his back garden onto the line. This depite the fact that a fibre-optic cable laid by ESAT in the late '90s runs along this line! :rolleyes:

DWCommuter

Quackster wrote: »

Although the Tralee-Fenit line is still officially 'in-situ' in the world of Iarnród Éireann, the fact on the ground is that certain individuals have already illegally appropriated sections of it. In one instance, the occupants of the old level-crossing cottage near the Spa have covered over a section of the line to provide themselves with a driveway and an enlarged garden.

A farmer in the Mounthawk area of Tralee is trying to prevent access to a section of the line that has been used by walkers in the town for a great many years, leading to a Garda presence on a protest march last Sunday organised to draw attention to the lack of progress on the greenway project.

The fact is IE have abjectly failed to protect what is state property and are continuing to drag their heels on it despite repeated attempts by Kerry County Council at getting them to sort this mess out.

Incidentially, the same thing is happening on the Trelee-Limerick line. On the outskirts of the town shortly after the split with the Fenit line, an individual has illegally extended his back garden onto the line. This depite the fact that a fibre-optic cable laid by ESAT in the late '90s runs along this line! :rolleyes:

The same thing has happened on the WRC north of Claremorris, but until its either a proposed greenway or a TGV style route to Sligo via Knock, I fear we'll have to wait a bit longer for controversy.:D