Funktion One Owner talks some sense

jtsuited

Think this is worthy of its own thread....

http://www.electronicbeats.net/TV/Tech-Talk-Funktion-One-Slices-2-10

jtsuited

btw, this guy touches on at least 5 separate subjects we've talked about (at length) on here.

Zascar

You must have been rubbing yourself off while watching that Jeff lol

Good video though, I did not know Funktion One were flat. Bit much saying that no dj mixer is of good enough quality though. I mean ffs, yes we would all love the absolutely best of everything available in the universe at all times, but that is just not always practical or achievable.

jtsuited

Zascar wrote: »

You must have been rubbing yourself off while watching that Jeff lol

Good video though, I did not know Funktion One were flat. Bit much saying that no dj mixer is of good enough quality though. I mean ffs, yes we would all love the absolutely best of everything available in the universe at all times, but that is just not always practical or achievable.

Ah to be honest, I come from a 'proper' mixer background(as in studio mixers) and I was really taken aback by how dodgy the pioneer mixers sound. The A&H ones were a good bit nicer, but from what I hear (on fairly good authority) some of the old rotaries are absolute quality in terms of sonics.

Zascar

Oh and am I right in saying that Funktion One used to be Turbosound? Or something...

The Turbosound in the original RedBox is still my favourite sound system ever...

Paul1979

true, but think of the money the clubs are paying for a F1 system and then lobbing in a **** (..ahem..Pioneer:D) mixer and **** mp3s, might as well not have bought the F1 in the first place

jtsuited

Paul1979 wrote: »

true, but think of the money the clubs are paying for a F1 system and then lobbing in a **** (..ahem..Pioneer:D) mixer and **** mp3s, might as well not have bought the F1 in the first place

I think this is pretty interesting point.....it's actually the Djs that are causing the biggest audio quality loss by making sh1tty mixers 'industry standard' and using mp3s.

Paul1979

imagine plugging this baby into a F1 system

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKq5tBlVT-I&feature=player_embedded
:eek:

NotInventedHere

jtsuited wrote: »

I think this is pretty interesting point.....it's actually the Djs that are causing the biggest audio quality loss by making sh1tty mixers 'industry standard' and using mp3s.

Although he did say wav files are just about acceptable

electrogrimey

My main gripe with the whole DJing scene is DJs pushing mixers in the red. So retarded in every way.

Anyone have any good reads/talks on what pushing a mixer into the red actually does to the sound?

jtsuited

electrogrimey wrote: »

My main gripe with the whole DJing scene is DJs pushing mixers in the red. So retarded in every way.

Anyone have any good reads/talks on what pushing a mixer into the red actually does to the sound?

Hmmmm....without sounding facetious that's sort of a 'length of a string' request.
I'll give a go at a short non-geeky explanation of some things....
Amongst other things that driving dj mixers too hard does some of the worst ones are......
Clipping the signal introduces multiple harmonics (some of which might be desirable) and effects the linearity of the system.
Basically the waveform completely changes relative to itself and so will sound horrible.

was.deevey

The Turbosound in the original RedBox is still my favourite sound system ever...

And the Formula Sound mixer up there was freaking lovely sounding mixer to compliment it, streaks above A&H sonically (IMHO of course:D).

Although he did say wav files are just about acceptable

I mentioned on the other thread, but seeing as tracks are normally mastered as WAV's how are they "just about" acceptable ?

brianc27

jtsuited wrote: »

Clipping the signal introduces multiple harmonics (some of which might be desirable) .

while not condoning pushing the mxer into the red, ive got a couple of techno tracks that sound like they are being played in the red and they sound fantastic imo, obviously produced that way and nicer on the ears then actually playing right into the red on a mixer, like this one

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OwmUNuB-4U

Anima

Anyone have any good reads/talks on what pushing a mixer into the red actually does to the sound?

As Jeff said, it'll distort the signal and introduce high frequency components (which is what distortion does). If the track has very little highs, this might not sound too bad (kind of like that track above) but if the track is bright to begin with, it'll sound very shrill and unpleasant. Also the extra high frequency noise will make the track seem less bassy.

Another thing is that the signal will have reduced dynamics so the track will lose all impact and punch. So the drums will sound flat and overall just rubbish.

was.deevey

ive got a couple of techno tracks that sound like they are being played in the red and they sound fantastic

That track is very fcuked up LOL !!

Sounds like the distortion was only applied to certain frequencies though the bass rumble sounds pretty clean compared to everything else.

One of the few acts that really seemed to apply "nasty" (in a good way!) distortion was the chemical bros. doing a DJ set in the box about 10 years ago, i'm sure theres lots more but they stand out as being creative in driving things as opposed to just being tone deaf and being all Frankie Wilde.

An Effects unit would really be a far better option if you want distortion than clipping the mixer (which "can" also destroy speakers BTW!).

***taken from a forum****

The main reason is that clipping will cause sine wave signals to become square waves (as already stated). The problem is that square waves are operating at the max amplitude every period, where sine waves only operate the at the max amplitude for a short moment per period. In other words, you turn it up too loud, you get square waves, square waves run the voice coils at max power too much, causing them to overheat and fry.

joker77

Zascar wrote: »

You must have been rubbing yourself off while watching that Jeff lol

Good video though, I did not know Funktion One were flat. Bit much saying that no dj mixer is of good enough quality though. I mean ffs, yes we would all love the absolutely best of everything available in the universe at all times, but that is just not always practical or achievable.

I don't think it's too much him saying that about DJ mixers, he's talking about using them on a highly engineered sound system, where you'll be able to tell the difference. Any system is only as good as it's weakest link - he talks there about the 'audio chain', and if the mixer isn't up to it, or you're not using the best audio format, you'll notice it. I think that's fair enough - why spend all that money on the speakers and not spend the equivalent on a mixer.

jtsuited

yeah it must be a bit disheartening for these guys who obsessively work on these systems to have so much of their work undermined by some 'industry standard' dj mixers.

Paul1979

i take it you mean "Pioneer"?

hans aus dtschl

Reds can mean distortion or clipping (not always)

if your meter's accurate and you come above 0dB you are going to change the signal.

If you cause the signal to distort you may cause the signal to to be too large in some frequency range = unpleasant sound (overextension of xmax and coil meets magnet or broken suspension) = angry engineer + no sound + angry punters.

If you cause the signal to clip you'll square the sines (draw a line across a sinusoid and it'll make sense) and the speaker will be withdrawn for too long, the extra current will eat the voice coil, which will disfigure and cause rubbing on the sides of the magnet, or just cause the coil (which is very thin) to melt and the speaker stops moving entirely.

So yeah it's bad,.

garthv

He has no respect for any other speaker manufacturer??? I was with him right up until that point.

Mp3's are not real sound? Jesus....he's a bloody crusty hippy.

I Love Tea

Zascar wrote: »

Oh and am I right in saying that Funktion One used to be Turbosound? Or something...

The Turbosound in the original RedBox is still my favourite sound system ever...

I think it was the two main designers that designed all the turbosound stuff back in the 90's that broke away to form Funktion One.

Have to agree with you on the sound system in the redbox. Back in 95 there were two clubs down here with Turbosound rigs and they sounded sweet.

Pa the Blah

Whilst he makes some obviously true remarks, regarding distortion and weakest links in the chain etc he also says a lot shyte! He is purely blowing his own trumpet,
I say to you sirs! his head is clearly up his own arse!
Sound was better years ago haha, maybe because he had better hearing back then, he slates DSP then they show them using XTA DSP cross-overs.... Yeah ofc because they are far more versatile than the old card systems, thats why he uses them.
Turbo were good enough back in the late 80's to mid 90's (Flood and Flash light as well circa 2000) but those days a long gone, thats why SKAN PA ditched them as there main system years ago. btw they do Glastonbury.
Funktion-one are not versatile! you be hard pushed to see them at any major event, there are not directional, which is why line arrays rule this days, with ever increasing DB laws through out the EU a Function-one system does not match the SPL level of a LA system, why! on large festival etc, sound is not just measured at the FOH position only' but outside of the event as well, being able to have some form of directional control makes a world of difference, (excluding wind ofc).
in general there is a horses for courses with PA's,' I still like old Rock boxes for good old rock n roll, but if your talking cutting edge Function-one are not it.
what he says about eq flat etc, then goes on to say about rooms not being perfect... welcome to the real world! thats why you need a good adaptable system and decent EQ and DSP cross-overs and system management.
mmm should stop my rant... ... they're bass bins are ok

ooo one last thing quite often the weakest link is an engineer that does not know how to communicate with a DJ properly :P

was.deevey

ooo one last thing quite often the weakest link is an engineer that does not know how to communicate with a DJ properly

A quick blast of Britney Spears full whack though the monitors halfways though an "epic" mix, with the promise of "more where that came from" if they push red again :P

liamrabbittf1

So yeh your right the redbox Turbosound floodlight system designed by Tony and John the Funktion One Guys was awesome, But remember back than most DJ's used final LOL have you hard the Tripod system at full tilt with final ? Amazing.
So yeh Wav files the way to go men.
Let me talk you through how most systems are set up.

The Limiters are set to protect the system.
They will be set to kick in around the 1st red light on a mixer.
So what happiness is the bass gets limited 1st as it is handling the most power.
Then the mid and last the top.
So if you Push the system its like turning the bass down the mid up a little and the HF up full. Guess what that sounds like.
If your just clipping the 1st red light on the output of the mixer,, your on it, If you need more vol, it may be a case of
1. asking the owner to turn it up, as a lot of clubs will have a master vol control.
2. asking the installer can he give you more vol.
3. You might need a better system LOL
PS One note to all you DJ's if it sounds good in the DJ box it probably sounds awful on the dance floor, Go out and listen during the night, hay you might meet a hot babe. LOL



Liam Rabbitt, Acousticaudio.ie

milltown

Final?
Really?
Maybe back than, but now?
I thought what "happiness" now is, the DJ rocks up and plugs the headphone output of his laptop into a phono input on the mixer, sets VDJ to autopilot, then goes hoovering Bolivia's finest for the evening.

liamrabbittf1

Ops vinyl.

liamrabbittf1

Yep its all gone south with MP3's and laptops,